Yamaha's response to "Hard Start"

[Koinz]

I will answer the spark plug gap question. The reason that you don't gap the plugs different than what NGK, a somewhat reputable company with at least 5 or 10 years in the biz, is the same reason that you are not grooving your tires to enhance their wet traction before your road trip. COP ignition and spark plugs have been figured out.

Ya, I get that. The question was really around achieving a hotter spark by over coming a larger gap to help prevent fouling, if that is the cause, since we're saying that it's been proven that repeated on off cycles don't flood the engine.

Just saying.

Pulled my plugs after 22k and they look pretty good at a gap of loose .035. The new ones are a snug .034. Might set them at .035 going back in. .......and yes they are ngk

 

[Stampy]

Do we get a Tee shirt when joining the "hard start" club?........... ::020::
It won't have it, tried everything, tonight I got a bit popping and banging' then the battery started to go down hill.....
So, it's in Optimate and will give it another whirl tomorrow night.
May consider a jump from the car or even a bump start down a slope.
I've just returned from a long trip around Europe......... Don't know how I would of felt if it had happened in the middle of unknown territory, Being in my garage, at least it's not the end of the world.
You know, I got the S10 because of the reliability factor, it's got me thinking, maybe i should have stayed with Ducati?
Let's see what tomorrow brings............

 

[scott123007]

Stampy, save yourself the headache of taxing your battery and starter. Get someone to help you push start it, and it will start right up. (the hardest part is finding someone able to help you, LOL)

 

[carrot]

stampy tri removing the electronic fuel system fuse and crank the engine over several times then after replacing the fuse it should start may still need to do the WOT this happen to me couple weeks ago and this was the only way it would start

 

[Kevhunts]

Ya, I get that. The question was really around achieving a hotter spark by over coming a larger gap to help prevent fouling, if that is the cause, since we're saying that it's been proven that repeated on off cycles don't flood the engine.

Just saying.

Pulled my plugs after 22k and they look pretty good at a gap of loose .035. The new ones are a snug .034. Might set them at .035 going back in. .......and yes they are ngk

A wider gap may give you a bigger spark but is typically needed in a lean condition. A smaller gap is more likely to fire in a rich or flooded condition. Electricity takes the path of least resistance.

 

[silverfin]

Has "Hard Start" happened to the 2014 Super Tenere yet?

Is the 2014 Super Tenere a candidate for the hard start. I have only read about the first gen bike having this problem.
I will be picking up a new (non ES) YST soon....hope I dont have to deal with this as alot of little changes were made to the engine and the ECU. Any reports yet?

 

[Stampy]

Cheers guys,
Carrot......done the pulled fuse and the WOT thing, it fired without the fuse, maybe 1 or 2 seconds, but failed when replacing the fuse.
It seems if the engine mgmt is totally confused about its actual situation.
We had a Nissan Micra that did this years ago !
Scott, tonight if it doesn't fire on the button, the missus can help push start it......watch this space :-\

 

[Stampy]

Woo hoo..... Fired up more or less straight away tonight, ran it up to temp and life is good again
So, now I will be more careful on starts (tbh I don't think I did anything wrong apart from not getting it up to temp before switching it off.)
So, thanks again all,

 

[Rasher]

Mine had another hard start, I had come back from my Alps trip, so the last time it ran it had done about 150 miles without stopping so most certainly warmed up, the bike sat for about two weeks and then did not start right away, I just went WOT and kept cranking and it fired up after what seemed like an age (probably only 10 seconds or so)

If I was in the middle of nowhere I would just pull the fuse rather than risk draining the battery right down.

 

[Tremor38]

Re: Yamaha's response to "Hard Start"

I'm skeptical calling does any good. But mostly I just haven't wanted to bother.

I will be flabbergasted if Yamaha does anything to fix this problem for the reasons I mentioned early in the thread. I think we're in work-around mode, not harangue them to fix it mode. I'm between the two extremes of "operator error" and "the bike is going to fail you someday in the middle of nowhere."

I do think Yamaha could mail something to owners saying, "It has come to our attention that on rare occasions the bike may not start normally; here is what you should do if this happens..." But admitting any fault opens them up to further problems and even possible litigation. This has remained low-profile enough they feel stonewalling is the better approach.

- Mark

For the same reason nobody should dismiss what has happened to you 3x, you should not disregard the preventive measures.

Can you you confidently say that none of your 3 hard starts could have been averted by continuing to hold the start button while opening the throttle? I doubt it.

The only time this became anywhere close to an issue for me was when I had a low battery charge state. Anything else simply involved applying common sense operating precedures.

 

[markjenn]

Re: Yamaha's response to "Hard Start"

For the same reason nobody should dismiss what has happened to you 3x, you should not disregard the preventive measures.

Do you realize you're responding to a post I made 16-mos ago? And I never disregarded anything. I was one of the first on this forum to call attention to the problem and suggest the WOT solution. Which has worked for me, but you can't discount that it hasn't worked for everyone. And I still believe that Yamaha, even if they don't have a fix, should at least acknowledge the issue and officially suggest a workaround. Not everyone keeps up with forums like this.

- Mark

 

[Tremor38]

Re: Yamaha's response to "Hard Start"

Mine had another hard start, I had come back from my Alps trip, so the last time it ran it had done about 150 miles without stopping so most certainly warmed up, the bike sat for about two weeks and then did not start right away, I just went WOT and kept cranking and it fired up after what seemed like an age (probably only 10 seconds or so)

If I was in the middle of nowhere I would just pull the fuse rather than risk draining the battery right down.

IF no battery tender connected for those two weeks, that can easily be attributed to charge state. The S10's battery charge state weakens significantly after sitting for more than a few days.

 

[Twisties]

Re: Yamaha's response to "Hard Start"

IF no battery tender connected for those two weeks, that can easily be attributed to charge state. The S10's battery charge state weakens significantly after sitting for more than a few days.

My battery is typically fine for at least two months, probably longer. In fact, I hardly ever put it on the tender any more. Just not necessary. Whenever I do, it goes straight to float. My BMW on the other hand, needs a tender as you describe. If the bike cranks nicely initially, I think we can conclude that charge state is not the problem.

FWIW, I, stupidly, turned the key on for a moment to check the odometer, and then off last week.... half an hour later... you guessed it. What is this, the 5th or 6th time now... I've lost track.

 

[Rasher]

I can't see Yamaha admitting anything, the moment they did they are open to all sorts of claims, unlike BMW / Triumph Yamaha do not provide dealers with the facility to re-flash ECU's, and the only likely fixes would be from ECU programming, or if that was not possible a new ECU, the former Yamaha just do not do, the latter would be so expensive Yamaha are going to avoid commenting at all, the slightest hint that there is a real issue would cost them too much.

At least our Rear shocks are not going to collapse

 

[FrontRangeRider]

Re: Has "Hard Start" happened to the 2014 Super Tenere yet?

Is the 2014 Super Tenere a candidate for the hard start. I have only read about the first gen bike having this problem.
I will be picking up a new (non ES) YST soon....hope I dont have to deal with this as alot of little changes were made to the engine and the ECU. Any reports yet?

I have seen no hard start problems with my bike. On a number of occasions, I had to start the bike to move it from the shed to the garage or back (gravel driveway so pushing is not a good option). The engine would be running 2-3 minutes max before I shut her down. So far, the bike has always started on the first crank.

 

[jackrabbit]

Purchased a 2013 S10 new in May of '13, just sold it to my son so I could buy another S10 and have a reliable riding partner. Bike has 18000 plus miles on it. Never left me stranded, no hard start problems after sitting for weeks in the car port. Have been in sub freezing mountain temps and desert heat in the last 18 months on this bike and have never had the hard start issue. Yes yamaha did do the headlight wiring recall service free of charge. Have loved this bike. Previous rides: Honda VTX 1300 x2. Now I did have a yamaha tw 200 years ago that you could drag around the yard for hours behind a four wheeler and it would not start to save its worthless life. I sold it after just a couple of months.

 

[AVGeek]

Purchased a 2013 S10 new in May of '13, just sold it to my son so I could buy another S10 and have a reliable riding partner. Bike has 18000 plus miles on it. Never left me stranded, no hard start problems after sitting for weeks in the car port. Have been in sub freezing mountain temps and desert heat in the last 18 months on this bike and have never had the hard start issue. Yes yamaha did do the headlight wiring recall service free of charge. Have loved this bike. Previous rides: Honda VTX 1300 x2. Now I did have a yamaha tw 200 years ago that you could drag around the yard for hours behind a four wheeler and it would not start to save its worthless life. I sold it after just a couple of months.

Welcome aboard jackrabbit! You may want to start another thread in The Lounge to say hello; many members won't see a new post in this older thread...

 

[bandit]

Had the hard start issue a couple of days ago,run battery down twice trying to start it,tried WOT still no go.Then I read a tip from a Yamaha Tech 1-bike will not start. 2-turn kill switch on. 3-turn ignition key off. 4-wait 5 seconds. 5-turn ignition key on. 6-turn kill switch off. 7-start bike ,which starts like normal. Apparently it is rich mixture condition caused by a bug in ECU.At least someone from Yamaha has given us an owner fix which seems to work.

 

[Koinz]

Had the hard start issue a couple of days ago,run battery down twice trying to start it,tried WOT still no go.Then I read a tip from a Yamaha Tech 1-bike will not start. 2-turn kill switch on. 3-turn ignition key off. 4-wait 5 seconds. 5-turn ignition key on. 6-turn kill switch off. 7-start bike ,which starts like normal. Apparently it is rich mixture condition caused by a bug in ECU.At least someone from Yamaha has given us an owner fix which seems to work.

So did this actually workfor you or did you get your bike running by pulling the fuel injection fuse?

 

[bandit]

No I did not remove any fuses,I just carried out sequence as stated,and the bike started straight away. I have no idea if this will work for all hard starts ,but it worked for me.!!!