Yamaha's response to "Hard Start"

[Scott Williams]

I started this thread back in May of 2013 after reading about the Hard Start problem on this board and elsewhere. The S10 fit my needs for high clearance, 2-up and solo touring , off-road a bit, and mainly reliability. Since I've been around the block a few times (now 73), I decided to wait for the new Gen 2 model, since very few mfgrs. Get anything 100% right the first time. Where I live, RELIABILITY is first and foremost in a purchase of anything mechanical. So I bought a new 2014 S10 base model from my dealer here, farkled it up, and have almost 8000 worry and trouble free miles on it. I leave it at the dealer on the mainland at the end of a road trip (one week, every month) and take the ferry back over to my island. He washes and stores it for me (n/c) handles the oil changes (Yamaha Full Synthetic) and so far, not one mechanical hiccup. No stalling, no black smoke, no flat spot off the line, no power loss in lower gears, no HARD START, nothing but true pleasure. Hope it continues. Glad I waited for Gen 2. I think they remapped the ECU and got it perfect this time. Thanks, Yamaha. Great bike! And plenty of passing power with 2-up, by the way. I rarely have to drop down to fifth gear.

 

[Madscots]

Never seen it or heard of it

On my 3rd new S10 and have done well over 70k miles in 3 years on them. I have taken mine many times to Nurburgring, Alps and ride on best roads in Europe (Scotland) and has to be said love it.


Tomorrow (Sunday) on the S10 down to Ace Cafe for dinner then into London for 4 days from Edinburgh for work ::021::

 

[ExTriumphExp]

Being a relative newbie compared to some on here can someone enlighten me on this hard start crap? I did see an early post that stated its easy to avoid, how is this avoided? I have just had this issue occut to me twice in the last 4 weeks after not having a problem for the previous 14/15 months. The bike was stopped as usual, parked in garage as usual & started (attempted) in the same way. THe only way it fired was to remove the FI fuse then give it some WOT and a quick squirt or Fi Cleaner/ easy start an d then it fired eventually on both occaisions, normally it just fires straight away.

CAn anyone throw some light on hoe this is suppsed to be"Easily Avoided" ?? I dont know about the person who stated it this early on in the thread but im not in the habit of carting a can of easy start around with me when i go touring. How the feck am I supposed to start my bike if this happens when say camping??

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

slighty pissed off !

::003::

 

[The Ferret]

Re: Yamaha's response to "Hard Start"

Easily avoided by not starting the engine from cold and stopping it soon after. Scenario. Wash bike leave to dry outside then quick drive into garage and turn off. I always warm engine to 60 C on each start. The ecu gets it nickers in a twist and assumes engine is good to go so sets mixture etc wrong for starting.

 

[ExTriumphExp]

Re: Yamaha's response to "Hard Start"

Easily avoided by not starting the engine from cold and stopping it soon after. Scenario. Wash bike leave to dry outside then quick drive into garage and turn off. I always warm engine to 60 C on each start. The ecu gets it nickers in a twist and assumes engine is good to go so sets mixture etc wrong for starting.

I dont do short starts / runs as this is a good way of screwing the battery anyway, bikes cooled down before washing, dried off & pushed into garage. I also let it warm up a bit before riding too especially if stoping for fuel in next say 5/10 miles before meetingup for ride out.

 

[markjenn]

The idea that the problem strictly occurs after "interrupted starts" is bogus so the idea that the problem is "easily avoided" simply by making sure you never do this is just as bogus. Many, many, MANY of us have had the issue occur (sometimes multiple times) with no previous contributing factors. An interrupted start appears to make the problem more likely, but it isn't what causes the problem.

I think the easiest work-around is simply to recognize it early (e.g., if it doesn't start in a few seconds) and try to go to WOT as soon as possible before you drive it into a deeply flooded condition. And make sure you keep a reasonably fresh, fully-charged batter in the bike, using a Battery Tender if you often let the bike sit for more than a week or two. Once it is flooded, never crank the engine unless you're at WOT. (Resting the starter motor between short cranking sessions is a good idea too.) Most of us have been able to work around the issue without resorting to pulling fuses, plugging plugs, or using starter fluid., myself five times.

Whether WOT and a fresh battery always works, hard to say.

- Mark

 

[SuperJimbo]

Good advice from Mark there.
Mine also suffered from the anomaly and was becoming close to chronic. A fresh Shorai battery
helped the most and getting the Ecu flashed didnt the seem to hurt things either. One little extra I've gotten in the habit of is
using the kill switch to supplement turning the key off. If you'll note, the fuel pump works a bit at Key-on. Leaving the kill switch set to
'Off' prevents that. So on a cold start, switch off, key on, let her run thru the test boot up and Then switch on-hit the starter. Perhaps
that may help a bit. These bikes like plenty of battery voltage to crank right, so this would seem to be a critical
factor.

 

[ExTriumphExp]

The idea that the problem strictly occurs after "interrupted starts" is bogus so the idea that the problem is "easily avoided" simply by making sure you never do this is just as bogus. Many, many, MANY of us have had the issue occur (sometimes multiple times) with no previous contributing factors. An interrupted start appears to make the problem more likely, but it isn't what causes the problem.

I think the easiest work-around is simply to recognize it early (e.g., if it doesn't start in a few seconds) and try to go to WOT as soon as possible before you drive it into a deeply flooded condition. And make sure you keep a reasonably fresh, fully-charged batter in the bike, using a Battery Tender if you often let the bike sit for more than a week or two. Once it is flooded, never crank the engine unless you're at WOT. (Resting the starter motor between short cranking sessions is a good idea too.) Most of us have been able to work around the issue without resorting to pulling fuses, plugging plugs, or using starter fluid., myself five times.

Whether WOT and a fresh battery always works, hard to say.

- Mark

Cheers for the infor Mark & Jimbo

::003::

 

[Rasher]

Mine has not had a hard start for ages (should probably not say that) and last week I fired her up for the first time in many weeks, the starter sounded sluggish and I was expecting no-go but she burst into life in a nanosecond.

Not sure my hard starts were due to me starting / stopping too soon, I am certain one of them was a "random" event, and although the start / stop sure does aggravate it I am convinced it can happen through no user fault - WOT is your friend along with not turning the bike on / off and allowing it to prime even more fuel into flooded cylinders.

This issue does not really bother me, it is so rare and in most cases WOT will sort it, if not a fuse pull definitely will - just make sure you save a bit of battery for this.

Like others mention, if I do need to run it very briefly I make sure it gets close to normal temp, my local fuel station is only a mile away and I have never had an issue stopping after that short run (maybe 30 seconds running while I put on gloves & 2 minutes to ride to fuel station) so no need to be paranoid.

 

[markjenn]

WOT is your friend along with not turning the bike on / off and allowing it to prime even more fuel into flooded cylinders.

Turning the bike on/off without starting might possibly contribute to a hard start (I doubt it), but it certainly doesn't "prime" fuel into the cylinders. It pressurizes the fuel system, but the injectors are completely closed until you crank. This is how modern FI systems work and has been verified by someone on this forum.

- Mark

 

[Bronson]

Had the "hard start" issue, bike has sat for a few weeks, cold and rain, hooked up the battery tender, let it sit. Magic. She is all better.


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