Yamaha's response to "Hard Start"

[mcbrien]

Well now at 30,000 miles my bike has had its 1st no start.Three days days and no start. I even
pulled the air filter and sprayed starter stuff in and still no start. Its at the dealer now.

 

[Lutsie]

Re: Yamaha's response to "Hard Start"

Curious/intriguing -please fill us in with the diagnosis.

 

[Doug C]

Not so fast Canoodian! I've had one instance in Nova Scotia. I think the issue is battery is a little down during the crank. When it happened to me, the bike hadn't been started in a couple weeks, no tender in place. Once I charged the battery I pulled the fuse for the fuel pump and cranked till it fired, put the fuse back in, then started as per normal. She ran rough till the fuel burnt out of her, then ran normal. I haven't had a re-currence to date.

I too have never had a no start/hard start in three plus years. I did have no confidence in the oem battery and changed to Shorei after less than a year. Its been in once for the dealer to put it on their fancy charger balancer other than that never on a charger. The oem AGM battery needed charging after sitting a couple of weeks. The shorei after sitting for a month resting voltage never below 13.3. A large displacement engine with exhaust valves partially held open during cranking will not tolerate anything less than a perfect start system. Our starter motor and battery don't inspire a lot of confidence at least the speed it cranks sounds weak. It would be interesting to see if someone while doing maintenance with throttle bodies off could determine if the fuel injectors do actually spray fuel just with the key cycled or not.

 

[autoteach]

When there is a no start due to a rich condition it probably isn't advisable to add more fuel to the scenario. oh well.

 

[scott123007]

I too have never had a no start/hard start in three plus years. I did have no confidence in the oem battery and changed to Shorei after less than a year. Its been in once for the dealer to put it on their fancy charger balancer other than that never on a charger. The oem AGM battery needed charging after sitting a couple of weeks. The shorei after sitting for a month resting voltage never below 13.3. A large displacement engine with exhaust valves partially held open during cranking will not tolerate anything less than a perfect start system. Our starter motor and battery don't inspire a lot of confidence at least the speed it cranks sounds weak. It would be interesting to see if someone while doing maintenance with throttle bodies off could determine if the fuel injectors do actually spray fuel just with the key cycled or not.

Doug,
The points you make are right on the money. I've been waiting patiently for someone to talk about the pathetic starting system this bike has. It cracks me up where Yamaha skimped on this bike for weight savings (the starter and the cooling system) so that they could have no less than three pieces to remove from the muffler to get to the spark arrestor! WTF
I am saying that tongue in cheek, but really, some of the things on this bike seem so over built, and some are so lame it makes you wonder what the hell they were thinking. Regardless, I have said so many times that I am blue in the face, just push start the damned bike if it doesn't start. It is a lot easier to do than screwing with fuel pump fuses or spraying ether in your intake tract, and beats killing your battery, but I think I'm typing to the blind. LOL

 

[snakebitten]

Don't take this wrong, but nothing on my Beast is "lame".

It's not perfect. Nothing built by man is. But this is the un-lamest motorcycle I have ever had.
(wait. I might have to declare the OEM handle bar's "sweep" as lame. )

 

[fredz43]

. Regardless, I have said so many times that I am blue in the face, just push start the damned bike if it doesn't start. It is a lot easier to do than screwing with fuel pump fuses or spraying ether in your intake tract, and beats killing your battery, but I think I'm typing to the blind. LOL

Hi Scott,

I don't know if it was the same day you were riding with us at the rally or not, but one morning we went north out of the Hub to the gas station up the hill. Chuck, riding my previously owned 2012 S10 used the kill switch to shut it off and then forgot to turn off the key as he waited for me to gas up. He got into a long conversation with another rider there, not realizing that his key was on and if I understand it correctly, the headlight was still on from previously running. In any case when we got ready to go his battery was run down enough that it wouldn't start. There was a slight slope downhill back south down route 7, so we push started it. Well, it did start, but wouldn't take any throttle, only idle. He rode it like that down the hill and into a parking lot. I got off my bike to see if I could help. Sure enough, I could turn the throttle, but it would just sort of bog, wouldn't take throttle. Finally I decided to try something, hoping that all this low speed running had charged it enough to try a restart. I turned the key off, then back on, hit the starter and it started right up and ran fine. It was fine for the rest of the rally and the trip back home, but he got a new battery when he got to my house in IL before continuing his ride home.

Just thought I would mention that in case someone push starts their bike and it won't run right.

 

[autoteach]

Maybe I missed the thread, but is there one covering overheating? I am just reading now that Yamaha skimped on the cooling system. How does the overheating manifest itself? I had mine in Arizona at 114 degrees per the weather channel. Does the fan come one, never turn off, and the temps keep rising? Help, I want to get ahead of this. Does anyone have a source on a larger capacity radiator? Is there a particular coolant that can help all of us keep the temps lower? Coolant fan? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Also, has anyone started a class action complaint? I will complain to yamaha if it will help. I know my radiator fan has come on at times.

 

[Maxified]

Could be on to something here...
Could under-heating lead to random hard starts?

 

[mcbrien]

Well now at 30,000 miles my bike has had its 1st no start.Three days days and no start. I even
pulled the air filter and sprayed starter stuff in and still no start. Its at the dealer now.

As an update it was flooded. He added an inexhaustible 12 volt supply and cranked continually until
it finely fired up with full throttle. He's never seen a bike so hard to clear a flooded condition. He had
fuel running out of the bottom of the header. Every time you turn ignition off and then back on it delivers
MORE fuel so the problem just gets worse the more times it fails to start. My battery is a little weak so
I'm in hopes that's all it was. I'm also going to add a toggle switch to cut power to fuel pump so I can
stop adding more fuel if this reoccurs .

 

[markjenn]

On the subject of the FI system "priming" when you turn on the key, this has already been discussed, tested, and documented in other hard-start threads. The FI system pressurizes when you turn the key, but notwithstanding a malfunctioning injector, it doesn't squirt fuel. You can turn the key and/or kill switch on/off a thousand times and there should be no fuel in the inlet tract. And several of us have tested whether cycling the key repeatedly causes the hard start. It doesn't. Red herring.

- Mark

 

[Lutsie]

the point about the fi system is that as soon as the starter is thumbed it is squirting gas into the combustion chamber. Not that it leaks.

 

[markjenn]

the point about the fi system is that as soon as the starter is thumbed it is squirting gas into the combustion chamber. Not that it leaks.

Well yes, it is obvious that when you turn the motor over with the starter that the injectors squirt gas - that's how fuel injection works and if it didn't, the bike wouldn't start. But because previous key cycling and/or short periods of running seem to be contributors to the problem, we repeatedly get the suggestion in these threads that somehow simply turning the key without using the starter motor squirts fuel in some kind of "priming" scenario and that is the reason for hard starts. Notwithstanding a malfunction with the injectors themselves, this isn't the case. In and of itself, CYCLING THE KEY ON/OFF ISN'T THE PROBLEM. If you want to prove this to yourself, go out to your bike right now and turn the ignition on/off a hundred times. Then start it. It will start normally.

- Mark

 

[autoteach]

But what about the cooling system problems?? I am going to go test mine and see if the fan comes on...

 

[MrTwisty]

Re: Yamaha's response to "Hard Start"

This hard starting problem is a bigger problem on the S 10 than any other vehicle that I am aware of. Every vehicle that I have owned over the last 5 to 10 years is fuel injected and none of them have had this problem except the Super Tenere. It's a BIG problem IMHO.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[autoteach]

Has anyone actually had overheating problems? All the reading I've done here the fans seem sufficient to do cooling even in hot weather unless I've missed something.

But Ron, I never hear the fan on my car. That must be because the Super has an insufficient cooling system. I did go out and I ran the bike. Fan came on and the coolant was even over 200 degrees!! I think I will check and see if there are any recalls.

 

[autoteach]

Just got back (panting), they didn't have any recalls, but maybe (panting) Yamaha is unwilling to admit there is a problem.

 

[mcbrien]

So cycling the key isn't an issue, that's good to know. Being able
to control fuel pump should then make restarts when this happens
much easier.

 

[eemsreno]

Just got back (panting), they didn't have any recalls, but maybe (panting) Yamaha is unwilling to admit there is a problem.

Autoteach
I met a guy once in Colorado with an older pickup that he had way over loaded with advs. and bikes so he had a pump up fire extinguisher rigged up to squirt water on his radiator on up hills. One of his kids sat there pumping up the pressure.
Maybe you could rig up something like that and have your passenger keep the pressure up.

 

[autoteach]

Autoteach
I met a guy once in Colorado with an older pickup that he had way over loaded with advs. and bikes so he had a pump up fire extinguisher rigged up to squirt water on his radiator on up hills. One of his kids sat there pumping up the pressure.
Maybe you could rig up something like that and have your passenger keep the pressure up.

But BMW doesn't require a fire extinguisher...