Yamaha's response to "Hard Start"
- Thread starter Scott Williams
- Start date
MrTwisty
Member
It's a first for me too. What's the world coming to?creggur said:Holy Hell, I'm in agreement with Dallara...this thread is making history.
I've owned my bike 6 months now, just passed 6500 miles and ride everyday... Probably start my bike 10 times a day and no hard start ever..
I haven't had one issue or complaint about this bike- after 40 years of riding and prob close to 75 bikes owned over the years I can say without hesitation the Super Ténéré is the best bike I've ever owned.
I haven't had one issue or complaint about this bike- after 40 years of riding and prob close to 75 bikes owned over the years I can say without hesitation the Super Ténéré is the best bike I've ever owned.
I've actually had the "hard start" twice. Once, when I washed the bike (most folks here won't ever have to worry about that ) and started the bike to pull it back I'm the garage. After drying everything I went to fire it up again and....no go. WOT and a few seconds and she was purring away.
The other was at a fuel stop where I forgot to kick up the side stand and it died when I clicked into first gear. At that point I hit the starter button again, but my thumb slipped so didn't hold it long enough to fire - then she wouldn't. WOT and a few seconds later she was purring away.
If that's the kind of "problem" that would keep someone off a bike, they probably have no business on any bike, much less riding one to anywhere resembling a remote location. Just my opinion...
) and started the bike to pull it back I'm the garage. After drying everything I went to fire it up again and....no go. WOT and a few seconds and she was purring away.The other was at a fuel stop where I forgot to kick up the side stand and it died when I clicked into first gear. At that point I hit the starter button again, but my thumb slipped so didn't hold it long enough to fire - then she wouldn't. WOT and a few seconds later she was purring away.
If that's the kind of "problem" that would keep someone off a bike, they probably have no business on any bike, much less riding one to anywhere resembling a remote location. Just my opinion...
I'm ok with the folks being concerned about hard starts. I'm even ok with someone coming to this forum and while researching the potential purchase of a Tenere, they get the wrong idea about what they read here. It's easy for some types to be over sensitive to the culture of these forums.
But it is quite a leap to indict Yamaha as being a poor company (my interpretation) or not being worthy of selling this bike for our "hard earned money" because of this very specific, and thoroughly documented, relatively rare and very minor issue. Seriously, an over reaction.
How can anybody come here and research this bike and totally MISS the overwhelming satisfied owners. In fact, most folks here glow about this bike. I dare say there is not a bike specific forum on the net that represents a more overall 2 thumbs up for the machine in question.
The Super Tenere isn't for everybody. But that's no reflection on Yamaha. I really believe Yamaha should be commended for how well they entered this genre. It's a stunningly well done version of what it is designed to be.
But it is quite a leap to indict Yamaha as being a poor company (my interpretation) or not being worthy of selling this bike for our "hard earned money" because of this very specific, and thoroughly documented, relatively rare and very minor issue. Seriously, an over reaction.
How can anybody come here and research this bike and totally MISS the overwhelming satisfied owners. In fact, most folks here glow about this bike. I dare say there is not a bike specific forum on the net that represents a more overall 2 thumbs up for the machine in question.
The Super Tenere isn't for everybody. But that's no reflection on Yamaha. I really believe Yamaha should be commended for how well they entered this genre. It's a stunningly well done version of what it is designed to be.
AlsoRan
Member
I recently rode a nice running Super T that had the hard start problem once. It would not start after several attempts and it eventually was trailered to the dealer for examination. They detected that the bike had significant carbon buildup, and although it was not conclusive that the carbon caused the hard start, I was impressed to hear about the dealer and Yamaha's interest in the bike and their dedication to resolving the problem. Not to get into the mechanical details but there was work involved under warranty and they got it running. Their care after the fact and the interest in having the bike back for followup visits to analyze its health has insured in my mind that Yamaha will stand behind their product if it's a legitimate case.
My Super Tenere has never had the hard start problem and it was one of the first delivered to the USA. It's only my 10th Yamaha and so I'm going on "tradition" that it will be reliable for years to come. But if I ever have a real problem with it, for now at least I'm feeling good about the chances of the problem getting resolved and not being ignored.
My Super Tenere has never had the hard start problem and it was one of the first delivered to the USA. It's only my 10th Yamaha and so I'm going on "tradition" that it will be reliable for years to come. But if I ever have a real problem with it, for now at least I'm feeling good about the chances of the problem getting resolved and not being ignored.
autoteach
New Member
Heard that!creggur said:I've actually had the "hard start" twice. Once, when I washed the bike (most folks here won't ever have to worry about that
The other was at a fuel stop where I forgot to kick up the side stand and it died when I clicked into first gear. At that point I hit the starter button again, but my thumb slipped so didn't hold it long enough to fire - then she wouldn't. WOT and a few seconds later she was purring away.
If that's the kind of "problem" that would keep someone off a bike, they probably have no business on any bike, much less riding one to anywhere resembling a remote location. Just my opinion...
Simple solution, don't let the carbon build up... use the rpms, its fun and rewarding.AlsoRan said:
And, I think I spent a great deal of time explaining this in the original "hard start" thread, so I won't again but I will say that there is not a computer on a bike sophisticated enough to correct for a flooded engine. It has everything to do with the sensors used, and the sensors that could and their reliability. So, I say to those that can't operate a throttle, good luck.
</snip my pissy mood - but this is a real problem for some preople>
::021::
::021::
creggur said:I've actually had the "hard start" twice. Once, when I washed the bike (most folks here won't ever have to worry about that
The other was at a fuel stop where I forgot to kick up the side stand and it died when I clicked into first gear. At that point I hit the starter button again, but my thumb slipped so didn't hold it long enough to fire - then she wouldn't. WOT and a few seconds later she was purring away.
If that's the kind of "problem" that would keep someone off a bike, they probably have no business on any bike, much less riding one to anywhere resembling a remote location. Just my opinion...
Scott Williams
Member
Hi Guys,
I appreciate your responses. Just trying to call Yamaha's attention to a known problem. Yes, I do believe everyone on this board when they report news. Maybe I am naive, but I do. Markjenn, jaeger22, twisties, tpak, x5 and snakebitten all had common sense and encouraging replies. Thank you. No, I'm not a Yamaha eng., but I was in the Chevvy GM eng. dept in Tarrytown, NY in the early 60's. That's when GM, Ford & Chrysler built crap because foreign competition hadn't entered the fray....yet. The pat "you're the first one to experience that" answer was common with all dealers. Now, with the growth of the internet and instant worldwide communication, the BS has generally stopped. I know they stonewall. Part of the $$$ delay game. I just didn't expect it from Yamaha, who is known for superior customer relations. My buddy just sold his Harley store for 20 mil. A store that he built up from scratch. He read the Harley forum regularly, and made his sales & parts guys read it, too. .
Back in Montana, and also in the Smokies I had a 1500 Valkyrie, which was a super bike for 2-up travel. I retired to an island off the coast of Honduras 3 years ago and now own a Yamaha Majesty 400 maxi-scooter. Almost perfect for 2-up touring down here. Cruises at 75 all day. The only hiccup is the damn unexpected speed bumps the locals put in at will. Small towns will put one up overnight....and not mark it. So with 2-up we were scraping bottom more than I like. So last month the wife and I attend a rally with 75 bikes at a beach resort on the mainland. We were the only gringos, and there was only one other Yammy. There were Harleys, Tigers, Ducatis, KTM, Aprilia, and plenty of Beemers. All Latino professionals. The guy with the other Yammy has a Super Tenere. Damn, I liked it. We chatted. He bought it for it's overall quality.....and 8 in. clearance. He had been to Brazil with a few of the Beemers & 1 Harley. They had trouble. He didn't. By the way, there are dealerships for all major brands here in Honduras. But in my estimation, Yamaha has the best. I keep my Majesty at a dealer on the mainland for just $100/six months. I get off the ferry and we take off for various B&B's in the mountains.
Now, my wife says "Let's go to Medellin" Wow, she's cool. So I am looking into the right bike. Now you get the picture. Didn't mean to ruffle any feathers. I applaud Yamaha CS for taking a call from someone who's not yet in the ST "owner's club" yet. That indicates to me that they view potential sales as important. Just didn't appreciate the old "first time I've heard it" routine again. I now have knowledge as to how to live with the HARD START problem if we buy the bike and it occurs on the trip. I do NOT want to break down along the way. Too dangerous for Gringo$. Thus my phone call to Yamaha.
Yesterday my Yammy dealer let me test ride the S10. I was a bit nervous, but the skill set developed from 4 years with the Valkyrie came back in a moment. Whew! Then the joy of riding a REAL bike set in. If I get a really good price on their leftover 2012, I'll take it. Otherwide, I wait a few months for a 2014.
Best to all of you,
Scott
I appreciate your responses. Just trying to call Yamaha's attention to a known problem. Yes, I do believe everyone on this board when they report news. Maybe I am naive, but I do. Markjenn, jaeger22, twisties, tpak, x5 and snakebitten all had common sense and encouraging replies. Thank you. No, I'm not a Yamaha eng., but I was in the Chevvy GM eng. dept in Tarrytown, NY in the early 60's. That's when GM, Ford & Chrysler built crap because foreign competition hadn't entered the fray....yet. The pat "you're the first one to experience that" answer was common with all dealers. Now, with the growth of the internet and instant worldwide communication, the BS has generally stopped. I know they stonewall. Part of the $$$ delay game. I just didn't expect it from Yamaha, who is known for superior customer relations. My buddy just sold his Harley store for 20 mil. A store that he built up from scratch. He read the Harley forum regularly, and made his sales & parts guys read it, too. .
Back in Montana, and also in the Smokies I had a 1500 Valkyrie, which was a super bike for 2-up travel. I retired to an island off the coast of Honduras 3 years ago and now own a Yamaha Majesty 400 maxi-scooter. Almost perfect for 2-up touring down here. Cruises at 75 all day. The only hiccup is the damn unexpected speed bumps the locals put in at will. Small towns will put one up overnight....and not mark it. So with 2-up we were scraping bottom more than I like. So last month the wife and I attend a rally with 75 bikes at a beach resort on the mainland. We were the only gringos, and there was only one other Yammy. There were Harleys, Tigers, Ducatis, KTM, Aprilia, and plenty of Beemers. All Latino professionals. The guy with the other Yammy has a Super Tenere. Damn, I liked it. We chatted. He bought it for it's overall quality.....and 8 in. clearance. He had been to Brazil with a few of the Beemers & 1 Harley. They had trouble. He didn't. By the way, there are dealerships for all major brands here in Honduras. But in my estimation, Yamaha has the best. I keep my Majesty at a dealer on the mainland for just $100/six months. I get off the ferry and we take off for various B&B's in the mountains.
Now, my wife says "Let's go to Medellin" Wow, she's cool. So I am looking into the right bike. Now you get the picture. Didn't mean to ruffle any feathers. I applaud Yamaha CS for taking a call from someone who's not yet in the ST "owner's club" yet. That indicates to me that they view potential sales as important. Just didn't appreciate the old "first time I've heard it" routine again. I now have knowledge as to how to live with the HARD START problem if we buy the bike and it occurs on the trip. I do NOT want to break down along the way. Too dangerous for Gringo$. Thus my phone call to Yamaha.
Yesterday my Yammy dealer let me test ride the S10. I was a bit nervous, but the skill set developed from 4 years with the Valkyrie came back in a moment. Whew! Then the joy of riding a REAL bike set in. If I get a really good price on their leftover 2012, I'll take it. Otherwide, I wait a few months for a 2014.
Best to all of you,
Scott
Excellent Post!
Now we know "the rest of the story".
My own honest thoughts? You will NOT have a hard start issue if you:
1. When it is a cold motor, Do NOT let off the start button until it starts. It starts very easily, so it isn't hard to do this. Just don't have a hair trigger.
2. If for ANY reason you DO start a cold motor, don't turn it off until it reaches normal operating temp. (140F is what the manual says)
3. If you are gonna play around with the key switch testing new farkles and such, hit the kill switch before you start doing so.
I don't pretend to know what exactly causes the rare hard start. I only had it once. 26,000 miles. almost 2 years. But I knew ALL about it from this forum. I let go of the start button almost immediately after hitting it. (slipped) It didn't start up immediately on the second press. Again, I knew about this issue. Went to almost wide open throttle and it fired up in 4 or 5 seconds.
Now, putting myself in your shoes.................
I'm in a 3rd world country and I have my precious wife with me. I gotta TRUST the bike I pick.
The S10 is without a doubt the most trustworthy bike I know of. Period. If there is an equal, I am unaware of it.
Nick Sanders pretty much proved that BEFORE I verified it myself.
Good luck.
And wait for nothing! Go get it now. Go on an Adventure!!!!!!
Now we know "the rest of the story".
My own honest thoughts? You will NOT have a hard start issue if you:
1. When it is a cold motor, Do NOT let off the start button until it starts. It starts very easily, so it isn't hard to do this. Just don't have a hair trigger.
2. If for ANY reason you DO start a cold motor, don't turn it off until it reaches normal operating temp. (140F is what the manual says)
3. If you are gonna play around with the key switch testing new farkles and such, hit the kill switch before you start doing so.
I don't pretend to know what exactly causes the rare hard start. I only had it once. 26,000 miles. almost 2 years. But I knew ALL about it from this forum. I let go of the start button almost immediately after hitting it. (slipped) It didn't start up immediately on the second press. Again, I knew about this issue. Went to almost wide open throttle and it fired up in 4 or 5 seconds.
Now, putting myself in your shoes.................
I'm in a 3rd world country and I have my precious wife with me. I gotta TRUST the bike I pick.
The S10 is without a doubt the most trustworthy bike I know of. Period. If there is an equal, I am unaware of it.
Nick Sanders pretty much proved that BEFORE I verified it myself.
Good luck.
And wait for nothing! Go get it now. Go on an Adventure!!!!!!
Dallara said:
Simply not true. While you list contributing factors, there have been numerous instances of hard starts in which none of these factors were present. 3x for me.snakebitten said:
- Mark
Scott Williams
Member
SnakeBitten and MarkJenn
good to hear back from you. Have you called Yamaha CS? It would help the overall cause if you (or those with the problem) did. Call-in campaigns work.
2 cents,
Scott
good to hear back from you. Have you called Yamaha CS? It would help the overall cause if you (or those with the problem) did. Call-in campaigns work.
2 cents,
Scott
Fine.markjenn said:
But then even RARER. Extremely rare even. (doesn't feel like that to you. but that's not what I am saying) You would agree? Frustratingly so, I understand.
Mark should. But what would I tell them? "Hey, about a year ago one time I.......... But it started right up and hasn't done it since. Can you help me?"Scott Williams said:
I shoulda left this one alone.
snakebitten said:
Now *THAT'S* funny!!!
::025:: ::025:: Dallara
p.s. - and you're right... should'a left this one alone.
~
I'm skeptical calling does any good. But mostly I just haven't wanted to bother.Scott Williams said:
I will be flabbergasted if Yamaha does anything to fix this problem for the reasons I mentioned early in the thread. I think we're in work-around mode, not harangue them to fix it mode. I'm between the two extremes of "operator error" and "the bike is going to fail you someday in the middle of nowhere."
I do think Yamaha could mail something to owners saying, "It has come to our attention that on rare occasions the bike may not start normally; here is what you should do if this happens..." But admitting any fault opens them up to further problems and even possible litigation. This has remained low-profile enough they feel stonewalling is the better approach.
- Mark
Maybe the Gen2 flash fixed it? ::013::
Anybody with a Gen2 flash AND a hard start??????
Maybe ECU and Diapson fixed it for Yamaha.
And now I really really am finished with this
Anybody with a Gen2 flash AND a hard start??????
Maybe ECU and Diapson fixed it for Yamaha.
And now I really really am finished with this
fredz43
Well-Known Member
Founding Member
2011 Site Supporter
2012 Site Supporter
2013 Site Supporter
2014 Site Supporter
I had one hard start in 2011 immediately after I was testing the relay I installed for my heated grips and only started it for a few seconds to verify I had used the correct trigger wire that is energized after the engine starts. On the next attempt it wouldn't start until I went to WOT.snakebitten said:Maybe the Gen2 flash fixed it? ::013::
Anybody with a Gen2 flash AND a hard start??????
Maybe ECU and Diapson fixed it for Yamaha.
And now I really really am finished with this
In 2012 I had the Gen 1 reflash and in 2013 I had the Gen 2 flash. I have not had the hard start since getting either flash.
So, there we have definitive proof that the ECUnleashed flash cures the hard start problem.
I rest my case. ;D
Bollocks