Why is the power restricted in gears 1,2,3 ?

[Blue_eyes]

Looks like they are saying that the Government is "So Gay"

) ) )

Yeah, I ran that German text through Google translate before too, and considering the outcome decided that it would not be of any benefit to post that Google translation.
Therefore I just posted my own translation (I speak German, as most Dutch citizens do) of the conclusion.

Otherwise some might interpret that Google translation as saying that all S10 riders are gay, so Yamaha decided to smoothen and polish the engine characteristics.... ::025:: ::025:: ::025::

::021::

 

[Tremor38]

) ) )

Yeah, I ran that German text through Google translate before too, and considering the outcome decided that it would not be of any benefit to post that Google translation.
Therefore I just posted my own translation (I speak German, as most Dutch citizens do) of the conclusion.

Otherwise some might interpret that Google translation as saying that all S10 riders are gay, so Yamaha decided to smoothen and polish the engine characteristics.... ::025:: ::025:: ::025::

::021::

Hmmm! What does that tells us about riders who don't want the flash JUST KIDDING!! > ::025::

 

[Desert Dave]

Actually, that was my exact impression on my test ride. The bike I rode to the show was a DL1000, powerful but not what I would call fast in todays motorcycle world, so that was my immediate point of comparison. I felt the bike unresponsive around town but a higher gear roll on made me wonder if the turbo kicked in. I knew nothing of the restriction at the time, and after reading about it later it all made sense to me. I'm glad I found out about the restriction and the ability to get rid of it as this has a huge impact on my buying decision.

Yeah I quoted myself That was my test ride impression from the factory demo bikes that travel around the U.S. There were two Teneres at the show and my friend who rode the other one had a similar experience. My plan was to buy my own, ride it 1000 miles or so and than see about doing something with the ECU as soon as possible, as I just felt the low gears were so gutless.

Last weekend I purchased my Tenere, first of a shipment that has been held at the stateside warehouse for awhile, apparently fixing the tank gasket from what I've heard. For comparison sake my first time out I put the bike in S mode and TC1, which was the same as my test ride. Heres where I was surprised, it was a totally different beast. Throttle was far more responsive, like night and day, the flat spot that was terrible on the demo at around 4K was totally gone and the bike wanted to spin up so much quicker. Torque through the entire powerband. If the demo had run like this there would have been no doubt in my head as to whether or not I should buy one. It still feels like there's a lot more there to awaken, but my bike feels like it runs strong, the demo was a slug in low gears.

Now I've considered (both) the demo bikes were just out of tune, if that's the case Yamaha could lose sales over this. If I didn't like the rest of the bike so much that would have turned me away and I wouldn't have looked back. IF they were just that far out it doesn't make sense that it ran so well in the higher gear roll ons :question: My bike doesn't have this obvious difference and the higher gears are basically what I remember.

So here it comes:WARNING!!: INTERNET RUMOR BASED ON NO FACTS AND PURE SPECULATION! Had to get my disclaimer out of the way as I don't want this to take on a life of it's own. When calling dealers looking for a bike a number of them mentioned the gasket fix being done. One also mentioned something about Yamaha adjusting the map, now I didn't bring the subject up, he mentioned it out of the blue and I just dismissed it as a salesman maybe trying to sell bikes and he was aware of some people being dissapointed in the stock condition. And maybe that was all it was , a salesman trying to sell.

The only thing I know for certain is that I've ridden two different Teneres now, and the experience was totally different. My current ride is more of what I was expecting, and I am at the moment quite pleased. Of course if I can get some more power easily with an ECU flash I think I'll take it, but I'm in no hurry now. I think I'll watch what develops with the different tuning solutions for awhile and choose what I like best. No more complaining from me about power, this was a very pleasant surprise. I would like to try a fairly stock bike from the earlier shipment to at least satisfy my curiosity if there is a change or if the demos were really just that bad.

 

[fredz43]

That brings up another thought. It is known that the Euro ECU has a different part number than the USA ECU. Information has been posted quoting at least one Euro ECU reflash vendor saying that the restrictions are due to government regulations, which surely are different in other lands. We have not heard the many complaints with our USA bikes as we have heard from our Euro and SA friends about the restrictions being severe, so that may be more inherent in their ECU's than in ours.

Now a light bulb just went off after reading about your demo ride. Several of the first bikes in the demo fleet were Euro bikes, as were the ones that made the rounds to USA dealers early last year. We had one at our local dealer, complete with Immobilizer key. They changed the side panels to black, so as to look like the yet to come USA models. That could explain the difference in your experience in riding a demo last year and a new USA bike this year.

Food for thought...............

 

[Blue_eyes]

Yeah I quoted myself That was my test ride impression from the factory demo bikes that travel around the U.S. There were two Teneres at the show and my friend who rode the other one had a similar experience. My plan was to buy my own, ride it 1000 miles or so and than see about doing something with the ECU as soon as possible, as I just felt the low gears were so gutless.

Last weekend I purchased my Tenere, first of a shipment that has been held at the stateside warehouse for awhile, apparently fixing the tank gasket from what I've heard. For comparison sake my first time out I put the bike in S mode and TC1, which was the same as my test ride. Heres where I was surprised, it was a totally different beast. Throttle was far more responsive, like night and day, the flat spot that was terrible on the demo at around 4K was totally gone and the bike wanted to spin up so much quicker. Torque through the entire powerband. If the demo had run like this there would have been no doubt in my head as to whether or not I should buy one. It still feels like there's a lot more there to awaken, but my bike feels like it runs strong, the demo was a slug in low gears.

Now I've considered (both) the demo bikes were just out of tune, if that's the case Yamaha could lose sales over this. If I didn't like the rest of the bike so much that would have turned me away and I wouldn't have looked back. IF they were just that far out it doesn't make sense that it ran so well in the higher gear roll ons :question: My bike doesn't have this obvious difference and the higher gears are basically what I remember.

So here it comes:WARNING!!: INTERNET RUMOR BASED ON NO FACTS AND PURE SPECULATION! Had to get my disclaimer out of the way as I don't want this to take on a life of it's own. When calling dealers looking for a bike a number of them mentioned the gasket fix being done. One also mentioned something about Yamaha adjusting the map, now I didn't bring the subject up, he mentioned it out of the blue and I just dismissed it as a salesman maybe trying to sell bikes and he was aware of some people being dissapointed in the stock condition. And maybe that was all it was , a salesman trying to sell.

The only thing I know for certain is that I've ridden two different Teneres now, and the experience was totally different. My current ride is more of what I was expecting, and I am at the moment quite pleased. Of course if I can get some more power easily with an ECU flash I think I'll take it, but I'm in no hurry now. I think I'll watch what develops with the different tuning solutions for awhile and choose what I like best. No more complaining from me about power, this was a very pleasant surprise. I would like to try a fairly stock bike from the earlier shipment to at least satisfy my curiosity if there is a change or if the demos were really just that bad.

If that's what you did, you probably did something different with TCS mode on the other bike, because there is no need to set TCS-1 mode, it is in TCS-1 mode by default. So you probably set one of the bikes to TCS-2 mode or TCS off mode, which makes it a totally different bike.

Als already posted here multiple times before, Yamaha was forced to restrict the bikes in order to meet emission regulations, so there is no way that Yamaha will "undo" the restriction as then the bike would not meet emission regulations. ::017::

 

[Desert Dave]

If that's what you did, you probably did something different with TCS mode on the other bike, because there is no need to set TCS-1 mode, it is in TCS-1 mode by default. So you probably set one of the bikes to TCS-2 mode or TCS off mode, which makes it a totally different bike.

Als already posted here multiple times before, Yamaha was forced to restrict the bikes in order to meet emission regulations, so there is no way that Yamaha will "undo" the restriction as then the bike would not meet emission regulations. ::017::

No, the reason I know it was in TC1 is because I did nothing with the TC settings on the demo, and I found out after the ride it defaults to TC1. I knew enough to Run it in sport mode so I made sure to switch that. So my test ride was S mode with TC1 by default and since that was my initial impression I wanted to try my own bike in the same conditions first.

I've seen the response from Yamaha on the German forum but haven't seen anything specifically from the states. What I have seen is a dyno run from a CA model (thread in this forum) that shows restrictions in the lower gears but nothing near the dramatic differences in most of the Euro dyno runs. If Fredz is correct about the demos possibly being Euro models maybe it is a different level of restriction and that was what I was feeling? IF ( a HUGE IF) that's true I can see why there are more complaints coming from other parts of the world on this issue as the bikes were dogs. As for Yamaha not possibly doing a reflash of any kind, I know other brands do to correct fueling issues and we really don't know how much wiggle room they had in there, espcially for different parts of the world with different environmental rules and sound rules.

 

[Blue_eyes]

No, the reason I know it was in TC1 is because I did nothing with the TC settings on the demo, and I found out after the ride it defaults to TC1. I knew enough to Run it in sport mode so I made sure to switch that. So my test ride was S mode with TC1 by default and since that was my initial impression I wanted to try my own bike in the same conditions first.

I've seen the response from Yamaha on the German forum but haven't seen anything specifically from the states. What I have seen is a dyno run from a CA model (thread in this forum) that shows restrictions in the lower gears but nothing near the dramatic differences in most of the Euro dyno runs. If Fredz is correct about the demos possibly being Euro models maybe it is a different level of restriction and that was what I was feeling? IF ( a HUGE IF) that's true I can see why there are more complaints coming from other parts of the world on this issue as the bikes were dogs. As for Yamaha not possibly doing a reflash of any kind, I know other brands do to correct fueling issues and we really don't know how much wiggle room they had in there, espcially for different parts of the world with different environmental rules and sound rules.

The bike has been around for over 2 years in Europe, so much more experience and riders of the bike in Europe.
There are already quite some riders in this forum who notice the restriction as well.
That CA bike you refer to had an Akra slip on, and that alone already reduces part of the dip.

 

[Desert Dave]

The bike has been around for over 2 years in Europe, so much more experience and riders of the bike in Europe.
That CA bike you refer to had an Akra slip on, and that alone already reduces part of the dip.

Both good points and maybe that is all it is.

We do know they are doing something different on the U.S. bikes as from what I've read here the air screws are set different than the rest of the world to meet emissions standards, possibly the bikes are tested different and setting the air screws allows them to have a different restriction on the actual throttle opening? I don't know but I have to think that's a possibility. I also know that after one short test ride I was bitching about the restriction like others have for 2 years in other places, so it doesn't take that long

But back to my original question, if indeed the restrictions are exactly the same here in the states I just have a hard time thinking a demo crew would let a bike go out running that poorly, like it was broken. Seriously getting back on my DL1000 after the demo felt like a powerhouse in comparison, on my new bike the low end of the Tenere blows away my Strom for lugging capability and pulling higher gears, and where the demo stumbled at around 4K and the power seemed to drop before redline, mine pulls linear and strong all the way up. Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining at all

I'm starting to think after I get a few more miles on mine I might take it down for a dyno run in second and fifth and see what the mid range looks like bone stock before I even do the air screws or a CO adjustment, that will at least give me a black and white answer.

 

[Blue_eyes]

Both good points and maybe that is all it is.

We do know they are doing something different on the U.S. bikes as from what I've read here the air screws are set different than the rest of the world to meet emissions standards, possibly the bikes are tested different and setting the air screws allows them to have a different restriction on the actual throttle opening? I don't know but I have to think that's a possibility. I also know that after one short test ride I was bitching about the restriction like others have for 2 years in other places, so it doesn't take that long

But back to my original question, if indeed the restrictions are exactly the same here in the states I just have a hard time thinking a demo crew would let a bike go out running that poorly, like it was broken. Seriously getting back on my DL1000 after the demo felt like a powerhouse in comparison, on my new bike the low end of the Tenere blows away my Strom for lugging capability and pulling higher gears, and where the demo stumbled at around 4K and the power seemed to drop before redline, mine pulls linear and strong all the way up. Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining at all

I'm starting to think after I get a few more miles on mine I might take it down for a dyno run in second and fifth and see what the mid range looks like bone stock before I even do the air screws or a CO adjustment, that will at least give me a black and white answer.

The way to find out what that salesguy meant would be to give him a call, and ask. That could shed some light on his remark and maybe end all speculations. If you have a chance to put your bike on the dyno that would help too. ::008::

 

[jajpko]

That brings up another thought. It is known that the Euro ECU has a different part number than the USA ECU. Information has been posted quoting at least one Euro ECU reflash vendor saying that the restrictions are due to government regulations, which surely are different in other lands. We have not heard the many complaints with our USA bikes as we have heard from our Euro and SA friends about the restrictions being severe, so that may be more inherent in their ECU's than in ours.

Now a light bulb just went off after reading about your demo ride. Several of the first bikes in the demo fleet were Euro bikes, as were the ones that made the rounds to USA dealers early last year. We had one at our local dealer, complete with Immobilizer key. They changed the side panels to black, so as to look like the yet to come USA models. That could explain the difference in your experience in riding a demo last year and a new USA bike this year.

Food for thought...............

Hi Fred, just want to throw this in. I rode a demo bike about 3 weeks ago and it was totally different than mine when it was stock.
This bike was different than the demo I rode early on and much different than mine stock.
I asked if they had done anything to the bike and it was a no..

I wonder if the these new demo bikes have not been tweaked before the dealer gets them.. Just a thought..
Even the riding position was different.. I could flat foot this one and could not on mine when stock..

 

[Desert Dave]

Hi Fred, just want to throw this in. I rode a demo bike about 3 weeks ago and it was totally different than mine when it was stock.
This bike was different than the demo I rode early on and much different than mine stock.
I asked if they had done anything to the bike and it was a no..

I wonder if the these new demo bikes have not been tweaked before the dealer gets them.. Just a thought..
Even the riding position was different.. I could flat foot this one and could not on mine when stock..

How were they totally different? which ones had what power characteristics? More or less than yours stock?

 

[jajpko]

How were they totally different? which ones had what power characteristics? More or less than yours stock?

The demo was smoother and had more power in the mid range. Also the top end was better from 4k and up.
There were no vibes to speak of, other than what would be normal.

 

[fredz43]

Hi Fred, just want to throw this in. I rode a demo bike about 3 weeks ago and it was totally different than mine when it was stock.
This bike was different than the demo I rode early on and much different than mine stock.
I asked if they had done anything to the bike and it was a no..

I wonder if the these new demo bikes have not been tweaked before the dealer gets them.. Just a thought..
Even the riding position was different.. I could flat foot this one and could not on mine when stock..

Hi Jim,

My dealer has 4 from the second USA production run (June 11, vs May for ours) and has one that is being used for a demo. I'll see if I have time to take it out this week, as we are supposed to have some warm days. Having said that, there are some days when mine seems to run better than other days. ;D Also, I have an Akra and have done the 3/4 turn TBS sync, so that will factor in there somehow.

 

[GrahamD]

Look guys it's simple..

YAMAHA just got Loncin in China to make up a few bikes while they were cleaning up after the Tsunami.
Hell they were about to produce their own copy anyway.

They knew you US folk were too impatient to wait for the real thing.

So the next batch was obviously made by YAMAHA in Japan.

That's why the price went up. Pretty simple really.

::001::

Cheers
Graham

 

[Blue_eyes]

Look guys it's simple..

YAMAHA just got Loncin in China to make up a few bikes while they were cleaning up after the Tsunami.
Hell they were about to produce their own copy anyway.

They knew you US folk were too impatient to wait for the real thing.

So the next batch was obviously made by YAMAHA in Japan.

That's why the price went up. Pretty simple really.

::001::

Cheers
Graham

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