Mzee
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Interesting. Do we have two different Yamaha? Mine has been out of warranty. I pay for everything.eemsreno said:
Who will be changing there chain tensioner to the 14' during valve adjustment ?
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EricV
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Actually, yes, there are many different Yamaha organizations. Each country has a separate warranty group, with unique standards to apply to what ever warranty & policy is offered there. Yamaha USA has a different warranty offering than Yamaha Canada, or Yamaha South Africa, etc. And what the policy is on out of warranty issues is handled by each country organization, not necessarily by Yamaha in Japan.Mzee said:
Yup.Mzee said:
I work for a company that makes and sells products worldwide, I work in the service world. Warranty is very different in different countries and customer expectations of warranty also vary greatly.
Back on topic, I finally got to go pick mine up tonight. The sharp chain slap is gone, All covered under YES. She runs like a thief in the night.
Mine didn't go as planned. Mechanic took out old cct and pop. Cam lobe moved and chain skipped timing. Little more work and valve adjustment later all is well. Along with clutch basket it is quieter and smoother. Just wish it was as easy as the rest of yours.
I think this is at least the the second case of someone on this board having the cam chain jump while changing the CCT. This is why I cringe every time I read about someone changing the CCT without taking off the valve cover. Yes you can do it and you will probably get away with it most of the time. It is largely a matter of luck. It all depends on the cam alignment at the time you remove the old CCT. If one of the cam lobes is pushing on a valve, especially if it is at around 45 degrees to the valve, there WILL be a huge torque on the cam and a very good chance that it will jump. Personally, having had to replace two valves when the chain jumped off, I would never risk it. But each his own. . .
eemsreno
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I’ll not say a word, I’ve been chewed out enough on this thread.
Oof.jaeger22 said:
How about changing it without taking the valve cover off. Then spin the motor with the crank bolt. Then you'll know if a valve is going to kit a piston. Since a LOT more guys were successful than failed by NOT strapping the chain to a cam, this would save a ton of time on the vast majority of the swaps.
That's what I did. Seems to have worked fine...although after 5k miles w/ the 14 tensioner...I think I'll be going manual at the 52k valve check.
Ramseybella
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After the new one i bought was deemed defective I just screwed warranty and had a manual one installed and have been happy with no chain chatter ever since.
I don't want to go through the "How do you know it was defective, your mechanic does not know what he is doing gauntlet" it was bad period.
I will be out of $124.00 but I have peace of mind the manual unit will be doing it's job 24/7 and one less issue to worry about while doing what i love most about the Tenere.
Like>> ::021::
I don't want to go through the "How do you know it was defective, your mechanic does not know what he is doing gauntlet" it was bad period.
I will be out of $124.00 but I have peace of mind the manual unit will be doing it's job 24/7 and one less issue to worry about while doing what i love most about the Tenere.
Like>> ::021::
Glad it worked for you AC. I admit this is pure speculation on my part but my theory is that it depends on the cam shaft position when you remove the CCT. This is based on my experience removing and replacing the cams 5 times now. :
( I am embarrassed to say) OTOH, I would think the motor is much more likely to stop in a position where the cam is not pressing on, and experiencing a lot of torque from the valve. I expect that is why most have gotten away with it. I would guess 8 or 9 out of 10 times you will be OK. Maybe even more.
Good idea about rotating the motor by hand. That would at least let you know if it was out far enough to crash a valve, but I don't expect you would be able to detect one tooth off.
With the valve cover off, you can easily see if the cam is pressing on a valve AND tie the chain to the cam gear.
The next time one of us has the the valve cover off, we need to look to see if there is a crank position where no cams are pressing on the valves on either cam phase. i.e. no cams pushing valves, rotate 360, and still no cams pressing on valves. If that crank position exists and can be identified, then we could use it to safely change the CCT without removing the cover.
I would do it but I just put mine back together 1000 miles ago and hope not to do it again for another 25,000 miles! ::012:: Unless my CCT starts making noise on start up. :
FYI, my tensioner let the chain jump the sprockets (@76k miles, 2 days before it was due to be changed...) and it jumped 3 teeth - without bending valves. I guess I was VERY lucky - I think it would depend on the position of the cams to start with as to whether or not 3 teeth out is going to be a catastrophe, or just an inconvenience.jaeger22 said:Good idea about rotating the motor by hand. That would at least let you know if it was out far enough to crash a valve, but I don't expect you would be able to detect one tooth off.
It DOES seem like it's better to change it with the valve cover off - so why not just wait till the next valve clearance check? There's no urgency to change it as long as you don't already have a lot of miles on the bike. I'd say if it's changed by the second valve check at 48,000 miles, no worries.
SUPPOSEDLY...RUMOR IS...that the bike will NOT start with the cam jumped 1 tooth. So my theory would be you can rotate by hand to know it won't crash. Then, if it was actually off a tooth, the bike wouldn't start.jaeger22 said:Glad it worked for you AC. I admit this is pure speculation on my part but my theory is that it depends on the cam shaft position when you remove the CCT. This is based on my experience removing and replacing the cams 5 times now. :
OTOH, I would think the motor is much more likely to stop in a position where the cam is not pressing on, and experiencing a lot of torque from the valve. I expect that is why most have gotten away with it. I would guess 8 or 9 out of 10 times you will be OK. Maybe even more.
Good idea about rotating the motor by hand. That would at least let you know if it was out far enough to crash a valve, but I don't expect you would be able to detect one tooth off.
With the valve cover off, you can easily see if the cam is pressing on a valve AND tie the chain to the cam gear.
The next time one of us has the the valve cover off, we need to look to see if there is a crank position where no cams are pressing on the valves on either cam phase. i.e. no cams pushing valves, rotate 360, and still no cams pressing on valves. If that crank position exists and can be identified, then we could use it to safely change the CCT without removing the cover.
I would do it but I just put mine back together 1000 miles ago and hope not to do it again for another 25,000 miles! ::012:: Unless my CCT starts making noise on start up. :
Unfortunately, on the 270 crank the magical position you want doesn't exist. The only time no pressure would be on ANY of the valves is if there was a spot where BOTH cylinders were at TDC at the same time. This condition never occurs on the S10. That is why you have to fight the cam back in when doing a valve adjustment.
ac
Mzee
Active Member
It has been relatively quiet then suddenly there is talk about the valve clearance cover and etc. For now this is beyond me because my CCT is working as it is meant to. ::013::
I guess I will order a 14 tensioner as my bikes had a louder than usual rattle for 2-3 seconds on a cold start after sitting for a week. I took it to my dealer yesterday and discussed my concern about this once again. Mechanic told me he'd swap it out so that's what I will do. He plans to pull my clutch cover at install to avoid a jump on install. Said he'd zip tie the chain to prevent a jump. This is the same trusted mechanic who did the 25k valve adjustment back in jan. Wish I'd known then the CCT was going to be revised. All my exhaust valves were tight then and cam was pulled to adjust. He certainly knows the nature of the cam wanting to skip at install. He mentioned the situation to me when I picked up the bike. So I trust his judgement on a new CCT install.
If it continues to rattle after the 14 CCT install I've heard enough I will think seriously about getting rid of the S10. I've had bikes with noisey CCTs in the past but they were not the jump a tooth type engines like this Yamaha is. I'm just not into living with the is this the end on every start up from a jumped timing on the engine.
If it continues to rattle after the 14 CCT install I've heard enough I will think seriously about getting rid of the S10. I've had bikes with noisey CCTs in the past but they were not the jump a tooth type engines like this Yamaha is. I'm just not into living with the is this the end on every start up from a jumped timing on the engine.
Ramseybella
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Have your mechanic think about a manual CCT, my 14 CCT didn't work so well Manual is easy and no fuss you will know when it needs adjusting.roy said:
I don't remember when I had an automatic CCT give me such feedback, both Triumph Tigers ZRX1200R, never chattered.
We installed the Manual CCT and it has been as Quiet as a Mouse Pissing on Cotton. ::008::
I have thought of a manual CCT but to be honest I just don't want to be bothered by this much longer. If the 14 CCT is a dud then I will do as I said earlier bye bye S10 and Yamaha. To be frank I'm all but done with Yamaha anyway. I did not like the reaction I received way back when over the headlight wire melting and they blamed me. Then low and behold that was recalled. This should be recalled to. I have read the repair reaction on here from the blown engine cases and it seems half ass to me from Yamaha. Face it their CCT is a POS in this bike and many other models so they need to step forward and correct this. I have had a few Suzuki GSXRs with rattling CCTs but Suzuki always replaced them until one didn't rattle and never once charged me. I am tired of pleading my case on this subject at the Yamaha dealer which I have a very good relationship with. On the Suzuki's it was a rattle but they were not jumping time. In most cases the ratchet design on them just needed a little of encouragement to go to the next cog. No more rattle then. I do not like this Yamaha design tensioner as it is destined to fail imo. I am not looking for an argument on this just stating my displeasure of the whole deal. Motorcycle engines should not be blowing up on a simple start up.Ramseybella said:
fredz43
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Hi Roy,roy said:
I don't blame you for being frustrated after pleading your case with the CCT and getting no satisfaction from your dealer. IMHO, this is not a Yamaha problem, but a dealer problem. I simply told my dealer about the rattling CCT on my previously owned 2012 S10 and he ordered one and installed it under the YES warranty.
OTOH, if you are out of warranty, it would be a Yamaha USA decision.
Out of warranty Fred but a low mileage 2012 at 29k (one of the first here in 2011) and they have serviced it everytime its needed it. Its not an abused bike and very clean. I have voiced my concern in the past about the CCT cold start rattle but didn't think to much about it until I started reading about bikes blowing up on startup. Thats just unacceptable imo. I was used to the rattling Suzukis that never blew up just ratttled until the CCT clicked to the next spot. Even if its under warranty I dont like what I've read here the way they have handled it. Half a piston is not a replacement in my book. Point being they should not be blowing up on start up to begin with due to a CCT thats not doing its job. A little rattle yea its annoying but the engine blowing is totally ridiculous. So if its the nature of the 270 firing then they should be more on top of it and know the disaster will happen more so and step up and correct it. We are not all looking to buy engines past 30k miles due to the 'nature' of the beast.fredz43 said:
BTW a few months ago yamaha rep told my dealer if it rattles longer than 7-8 seconds you have a problem. To me that is a half ass answer to potentially serious and expensive repair. I'm not putting a stop watch on my bike to record a rattle. As of right now I push the starter button thinking well this could be it, there she blows in the friggin driveway.
Ramseybella
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Roy,
Sounds like you have made up your mind and intend to move on.
I believe all bikes have an Achilles heel, this one has one major one it seems the CCT.
But honestly how many have had a S10 casing grenade on them due to the CCT failing or how many have had a failure with the CCT? Other than cam chain rattle at start up that's all I have been reading.
Mine was starting to rattle at 25000 all the time the 14 CCT was not working right out of the box, after we took it apart and seeing what it looked like I think this CCT has been way over designed for it's intended purpose.
So We went Manual, and love it.
I do like the ratchet type My Triumph's had them, never a problem and if so give it a tap with the plastic mallet.
Sorry to see you go Roy, good luck on finding the Golden Fleece. ::001::
Sounds like you have made up your mind and intend to move on.
I believe all bikes have an Achilles heel, this one has one major one it seems the CCT.
But honestly how many have had a S10 casing grenade on them due to the CCT failing or how many have had a failure with the CCT? Other than cam chain rattle at start up that's all I have been reading.
Mine was starting to rattle at 25000 all the time the 14 CCT was not working right out of the box, after we took it apart and seeing what it looked like I think this CCT has been way over designed for it's intended purpose.
So We went Manual, and love it.
I do like the ratchet type My Triumph's had them, never a problem and if so give it a tap with the plastic mallet.
Sorry to see you go Roy, good luck on finding the Golden Fleece. ::001::
yz454
Member
This is a over blown subject . A lot of brands have this so called problem . Just change the dam thing and ride on .
EricV
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Knowledge is power. Any of the pre-14 owners should now know to change the CCT at the 52k valve adjustment and will never need to stress about this potential failure. Those of us that actually have had a failure, (I have), were well past that mileage number. Most people, even if they never read forums, will notice the extra noise on start up long before it gets to the point where it's going to fail.yz454 said:
Don't be an internet hypochondriac. ::021::