Rossi / Marquez Spat

Pterodactyl

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What is the real shame is what has been allowed to happen to US / North American road racing. We went from a period of producing world champs one after another for many years, but now there doesn't seem to be the interest in developing our talent. In the early 80's I worked as a volunteer at Laguna Seca. During motorcycle road races I drove the crash truck and went around the track after every session to pick-up any stranded bikes and riders. For the annual AMA race riders such as Kenny Roberts (back from F1 for the summer break), Freddie Spencer, Eddie Lawson, Kevin Schwantz, Wayne Rainey and Yvonne Duhammel would all be in those races. Those riders went on to dominate F1 motorcycle racing for many years. What does our future look like now? We evidently need to hire some Spaniards to run our developmental programs.
 

Big Blu

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Pterodactyl said:
What is the real shame is what has been allowed to happen to US / North American road racing. We went from a period of producing world champs one after another for many years, but now there doesn't seem to be the interest in developing our talent. In the early 80's I worked as a volunteer at Laguna Seca. During motorcycle road races I drove the crash truck and went around the track after every session to pick-up any stranded bikes and riders. For the annual AMA race riders such as Kenny Roberts (back from F1 for the summer break), Freddie Spencer, Eddie Lawson, Kevin Schwantz, Dwayne Rainey and Yvonne Duhammel would all be in those races. Those riders went on to dominate F1 motorcycle racing for many years. What does our future look like now? We evidently need to hire some Spaniards to run our developmental programs.

Ahhh the good old days! ::008::

Paul
 

Rasher

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Big Blu said:
What I do know is that VR started the trash talk, misbehaved on track, was penalized for his actions...... and lost the title.
All fact, we can argue forever about if the penalty was fair or not, and ever get agreement.

We can also speculate forever as to if MM had it in for Rossi (pre or post trash talk / incident)

I can understand Rossi's rage pre-incident, MM was just block passing Rossi repeatedly, no real effort to make a pass that was likely to stick and I am sure in Rossi's own mind it was deliberate, but had he kept his cool he would have had a realistic chance of winning on Sunday even if he had come in behind Marquez - although had the race continued with MM riding in that manner it could of ended with Rossi in the dirt.

MM was not riding to win or get best position for those couple of laps, he was riding to piss off Rossi.

I also found it odd he never once stuck a wheel under Lorenzo - but he did seem to pressure him for the whole race - although perhaps this was a ploy, maybe he went down the pub with JL and promised to not pass but make it look good - again we will never know....

....perhaps he really was trying but did not want to put an iffy pass on JL and bugger up the championship - that is what those on Rossi's side thought it is how he should of behaved with Rossi, maybe he was less inclined to take risks around a fellow countryman that had not trash talked him, and in MM's head Rossi had ruined his chances....

...although I think few would really agree with this, MM caused his own downfall this season with inconsistency, and the Assen incident was entirely MM's fault.

Much as I would loved to have seen Rossi win a dream 10th title I think he contributed to his own downfall, JL won a title by riding brilliantly throughout the year, Rossi needs to shut up now and get on with preparing for next year (and maybe learn how to Rain Dance)
 

Tyke

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Pterodactyl said:
What is the real shame is what has been allowed to happen to US / North American road racing. We went from a period of producing world champs one after another for many years, but now there doesn't seem to be the interest in developing our talent. In the early 80's I worked as a volunteer at Laguna Seca. During motorcycle road races I drove the crash truck and went around the track after every session to pick-up any stranded bikes and riders. For the annual AMA race riders such as Kenny Roberts (back from F1 for the summer break), Freddie Spencer, Eddie Lawson, Kevin Schwantz, Wayne Rainey and Yvonne Duhammel would all be in those races. Those riders went on to dominate F1 motorcycle racing for many years. What does our future look like now? We evidently need to hire some Spaniards to run our developmental programs.
Yep,.....Its mainly about the financial investment that is being made on behalf of 'Spansh' riders at base level and then promoting them through the ranks

The national press here in the U.K barely mentioned Danny Kent becoming the first MotoGp world champion since Barry Sheene, such an achievement would probably made main headlines in the Spanish press....come to think of it, it probably did ::025::
 

Big Blu

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Rasher said:
All fact, we can argue forever about if the penalty was fair or not, and ever get agreement.
......
...
.
Sure we could, and yourare, however there are three irrefutable fact ..... 1) VR did get penalized, 2) VR did not win the title, 3) I'm not responsible for either of those. :))

Paul
 

scott123007

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Rasher said:
All fact, we can argue forever about if the penalty was fair or not, and ever get agreement.

We can also speculate forever as to if MM had it in for Rossi (pre or post trash talk / incident)

I can understand Rossi's rage pre-incident, MM was just block passing Rossi repeatedly, no real effort to make a pass that was likely to stick and I am sure in Rossi's own mind it was deliberate, but had he kept his cool he would have had a realistic chance of winning on Sunday even if he had come in behind Marquez - although had the race continued with MM riding in that manner it could of ended with Rossi in the dirt.

MM was not riding to win or get best position for those couple of laps, he was riding to piss off Rossi.

I also found it odd he never once stuck a wheel under Lorenzo - but he did seem to pressure him for the whole race - although perhaps this was a ploy, maybe he went down the pub with JL and promised to not pass but make it look good - again we will never know....

....perhaps he really was trying but did not want to put an iffy pass on JL and bugger up the championship - that is what those on Rossi's side thought it is how he should of behaved with Rossi, maybe he was less inclined to take risks around a fellow countryman that had not trash talked him, and in MM's head Rossi had ruined his chances....

...although I think few would really agree with this, MM caused his own downfall this season with inconsistency, and the Assen incident was entirely MM's fault.

Much as I would loved to have seen Rossi win a dream 10th title I think he contributed to his own downfall, JL won a title by riding brilliantly throughout the year, Rossi needs to shut up now and get on with preparing for next year (and maybe learn how to Rain Dance)
The problem with FACT vs CONSPIRACY is conspiracy can be plausible with only a slight TWIST of the FACTS and that twist in some peoples eyes is where all the controversy is. The main reason people see things differently is emotion. Be it praise for one, or envy/jealousy for another, nary the two shall meet. I find it interesting that the journalists who cover this sport, day in and day out, do so without emotion and call it the way it is without all the BS drama. I am not going to bore this board with my racing past, but suffice it to say, I have seen nothing by Marquez in the last 3 races that I haven't seen many times in many races with other riders, and I have NEVER seen them be accused of what Rossi claimed of Marquez. I know that the fact that I was a pro roadracer does not give me extra weight in what I am saying, but I can tell you that when you are a racer, you have but one objective, and that is to win. The reason Rossi was penalized was NOT because Marquez fell, but because Rossi, knowingly, ran him wide. By looking at Marquez and not the track, he broke the cardinal rule of racing by becoming more interested in the outcome of another rider, than of his own self. It was way more blatant than what most Americans wrongly accused Pedrosa of when he lost the front end and took out Nicky Hayden in '06 when Hayden was leading the championship. If that race is watched with un-jaded eyes, it becomes nothing more than a racing incident where a rider loses the front end, but when it is part of a bigger picture, emotion takes place of logic, and all hell breaks loose. This Rossi scenario, as Yogi Berra would say, is Deja Vu all over again, the difference of course being, that Rossi brought this on himself.

Hell, maybe this was his mastermind plan after all. This way he could remain the Hero he is, by fighting his way from last to fourth, and having his legions of fans feeling sorry for him and hating on his rivals, rather than starting up front and coming in fourth (which in this race anyway, is what would have happened) and just have to pull back into his garage once the race was over, with little recognition compared to what he got.
Yeah, I'm liking this! I think I'll spread this conspiracy theory around.
 

groundhog

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Whatever we may all think about the rights and wrongs on Rossi or Marquez's part, the real injustice here is that we the paying public were robbed of a final round showdown between the only two championship contenders. I have witnessed numerous Moto Gp and before that 500cc Grand Prix races, going back to the Roberts v Sheene days, and I don't remember a championship leading up to such a potentially fantastic last round battle. What a shame we never got to see it, whoever was to blame !
Also to the Rossi haters I would say that in my opinion he is almost solely responsible for the resurgent popularity of Moto GP, from the days when WSB drew more crowds and interest than the supposedly top tier of racing. He will be sorely missed when he hangs up his leathers. No one can bring out the passion and support in his followers in the way he can. It's not by chance he is the most universally popular rider in bike racing history. It's not just his racing skills, it's his charisma and his almost boyish delight in having a good battle with another rider, somewhat soured at the end of this season. I'm not given to hero worship of anybody but from the first time I saw him race until now I have been a fan and watching him race has given me immense pleasure over the last 20 or so years . Finally no one should write him off. To come back after the disastrous Ducati years and at the age of 36 to mount an almost successful bid for a 10th title is nothing short of amazing. Everything is new for next season - Michelins and control ECU, everything changes, and his motivation after all the sh*t will be even higher. I for one hope he can make one last push ( I can hear the kick jokes!) for that 10th title. Go Vale ::008::
 

WJBertrand

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Perhaps this all about a way for Rossi to motivate himself, not that he seemed to need any. I can imaging he'll be very focused on beating Marquez next year.
 

Big Blu

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groundhog said:
Whatever we may all think about the rights and wrongs on Rossi or Marquez's part, the real injustice here is that we the paying public were robbed of a final round showdown between the only two championship contenders. I have witnessed numerous Moto Gp and before that 500cc Grand Prix races, going back to the Roberts v Sheene days, and I don't remember a championship leading up to such a potentially fantastic last round battle. What a shame we never got to see it, whoever was to blame !
Also to the Rossi haters I would say that in my opinion he is almost solely responsible for the resurgent popularity of Moto GP, from the days when WSB drew more crowds and interest than the supposedly top tier of racing. He will be sorely missed when he hangs up his leathers. No one can bring out the passion and support in his followers in the way he can. It's not by chance he is the most universally popular rider in bike racing history. It's not just his racing skills, it's his charisma and his almost boyish delight in having a good battle with another rider, somewhat soured at the end of this season. I'm not given to hero worship of anybody but from the first time I saw him race until now I have been a fan and watching him race has given me immense pleasure over the last 20 or so years . Finally no one should write him off. To come back after the disastrous Ducati years and at the age of 36 to mount an almost successful bid for a 10th title is nothing short of amazing. Everything is new for next season - Michelins and control ECU, everything changes, and his motivation after all the sh*t will be even higher. I for one hope he can make one last push ( I can hear the kick jokes!) for that 10th title. Go Vale ::008::
Yes, it is a shame we missed a show down. VR may have contributed to the interest but I tune in to see good racing and with so many good teams participating it happens regularly, hope it continues... When it becomes a parade I tune out.

Umm, I haven't noticed a single Rossi "hater" here, but I for one feel his action on and off the track was inappropriate, and VR himself robbed us of a great finally. That's not hating, it's being honest, hell I don't know the man well enough to hate him, but I have lost some respect for him.

Testing of the 2016 equipment has begun, and it will be interesting to see how the teams adjust to the new equipment. Take a look: http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/2016startsnow-marc-marquez-tops-first-motogp-test-session-at-valencia-for-2016-season-motorcyclist?cmpid=enews111115&spPodID=030&spMailingID=23967146&spUserID=NjMwODY3MzU2NzcS1&spJobID=681075996&spReportId=NjgxMDc1OTk2S0

Paul
 

carrot

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Marquez is a very talented rider but needs to relax a little his the fastest but wrecked twice his luck will eventually run out can't expect to win a championship when broken.
 

Donk

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I am a Rossi fan but he made his own problems. Marquez did him dirty imo but Rossi could have handled it better. Lorenzo may be imo a turd but he is still World Champion. Bottom line 2015 is over and with the new tires and electronics 2016 should be pretty interesting racing. My bet is Ducati benefits huge from the changes. I think the Ducati GP15 already was using Magneti Merelli electronics so it may be less of a transition for them. There will be no Open Class for 2016 so racing should be tighter, maybe.
 

Big Blu

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