Reality or myth?

[3xranger]

Well, I called my BMW mechanic today to let him know that I would be going from a GS to a S10. In the last year, I had spent about $3000 USD on this bike (maintenance is included in this figure). Given that I put 8K miles on it, that number adds up to almost .50 cents per mile. Not to mention the fact that the speedometer was sticking and my mechanic had given me an estimate of about $1500 USD as the entire dashboard would have to be replaced.

Anyway, he is a great guy with lots of experience. He only works on BMW's and has a much better reputation than the dealers in the area. People ride from as far as 300 miles to avoid going to the BMW dealer.

Obviously, he didn't want to lose a customer and he started telling me why I shouldn't go to a jap bike. Here are the main points he made:

1. Jap bikes tend to be discontinued much more regularly than BMW's. When they are discontinued, parts become scarce. He told me a story about an 8 year old Honda he owned and about how difficult is was to get parts for it.
2. He said jap bikes were not built for the really long haul. He does have a 1995 R1100GS with 500K miles that has never been rebuilt. He mentioned that Japanese bikes are built for about 100K miles, then it's all down hill from there.
3. Bottom line, he said if I plan to keep the bike for some years, I should not go with a jap bike.

Does he make valid points? Or is he just hating losing a good paying customer?

 

[avc8130]

"Myth".

ac

 

[talonboy]

1. Scarce Japanese parts? It seems to me you can still get parts for old Japanese bikes just fine. And they are generally much, much cheaper than German parts.
2. Built for the long haul? When I was first introduced to Japanese cars and trucks 30 years ago, I realized how much more reliable they were than the American stuff I was used to working on. All the little stuff like wiring, switches, etc were better. they Japanese vehicles are very reliable, and inexpensive to maintain. Compare a 20 year old Toyota or Nissan, or Honda, to a 20 year old Mercedes or BMW. Which would you rather pay to repair? The Japanese bikes are very comparable to the major Japanese cars.
3. There are many, many people on this forum, and other forums I visit that are ex-BMW owners. They moved to Japanese bikes because of BMW reliability, or lack directly thereof.

 

[Ironhand]

Its sad that an otherwise decent dealer is peddling such nonsense. I have absolutely no problems finding parts for my 40ish year old RD, and likewise for any older bike I have ever owned or restored. The only areas where he *might* have a point are those few bikes that have been sold here for a year or two, then pulled. I'm thinking about Hondas like the CB1, Hawk GT, and GB500.

 

[Koinz]

Well, I called my BMW mechanic today to let him know that I would be going from a GS to a S10. In the last year, I had spent about $3000 USD on this bike (maintenance is included in this figure). Given that I put 8K miles on it, that number adds up to almost .50 cents per mile. Not to mention the fact that the speedometer was sticking and my mechanic had given me an estimate of about $1500 USD as the entire dashboard would have to be replaced.

Anyway, he is a great guy with lots of experience. He only works on BMW's and has a much better reputation than the dealers in the area. People ride from as far as 300 miles to avoid going to the BMW dealer.

Obviously, he didn't want to lose a customer and he started telling me why I shouldn't go to a jap bike. Here are the main points he made:

1. Jap bikes tend to be discontinued much more regularly than BMW's. When they are discontinued, parts become scarce. He told me a story about an 8 year old Honda he owned and about how difficult is was to get parts for it.
2. He said jap bikes were not built for the really long haul. He does have a 1995 R1100GS with 500K miles that has never been rebuilt. He mentioned that Japanese bikes are built for about 100K miles, then it's all down hill from there.
3. Bottom line, he said if I plan to keep the bike for some years, I should not go with a jap bike.

Does he make valid points? Or is he just hating losing a good paying customer?

::026:: Myth.
I'm still getting parts for my 85 Xt600.

I like the older bmw's and I think those are the ones that are going to do the high mileage. The newer ones just don't seem to meet the same high quality German engineering. I think they got caught up the marketing machine and their reliability is suffering for that. The number of silly issues that shouldn't be occurring just seems to go up year to year and they're getting harder to fix on your own.

I loved my BMW, but I was afraid of the abs pump going out and costing 2k or more to replace. Same with the final drive.

 

[longride]

I have had many a Japanese bike and also had a BMW. They joke on the BMW boards about 'making the dealer's boat payment' with the outrageous service charges. That guy is going to miss you. Maybe he can get someone else to make his boat payment. Japanese bikes are far and away more reliable, so any chance of needing ANY parts is pretty much null and void. with the savings in parts and service your BMW would require, you can buy a brand new bike and not have to worry about parts. Good thing BMW makes plenty of parts. They have plenty of riders that are going to need them.

 

[snakebitten]

He probably is a really good mechanic. And has years of investment in his craft.

But come on. There are decades of worldwide evidence for all to see that flat out contradicts his anti-Japanese bias.

Silly really.

 

[offcamber]

Of course he can get 500K on a bike without a rebuild he had a full BMW Shop at his disposable ::025::....I can't see keeping any bike past 100K unless its a classic and you want to keep it as an antique...or has some sentimental value....

As for parts, I got parts for my friends 1980 Honda CX500 Custom...granted not every part was available but considering the bike was 33 years old I couldn't complain.

Sounds like he was trying to scare you into staying a customer. Run don't walk to your Yamaha Dealer...

 

[scott123007]

The more passionate someone is about the brand of their favorite vehicle, the more obscure their logic becomes for defending it.

 

[~TABASCO~]

No need to re phrase and repeat what has been said up here ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I'm currently buying parts for a 1969 Honda, no issues finding them................

 

[Checkswrecks]

The Super Tenere is heavily based in the FJR and VMax. Go over to the FJRForum.com and see how many owners have well over his 100,000 miles and think nothing of it. Without replacing expensive final drives, instrument clusters, transmission overhauls, etc. The Japanese have remained more conservative in their designs than the current BMW crop, which have increasingly relied on balancing higher stress and less margin by adding higher tech.


When done, count the 200,000 mile owners.


There's at least one over 300,000 but by then I plan to have something else. Without the $.50/mile surcharge over the life of my ownership so I will also come out ahead financially.

 

[autoteach]

Besides the casual and repeated use of the offensive and racist based term "Jap", your mechanic is right on the money... yep, we all spend far more than $3000 in maintenance to do 8000 miles. Your including fuel, right?

 

[3xranger]

Well, sorry if I offended anyone. Didn't think I was using a racist term. I'm of Mexican decent and don't consider Mex to be offensive. I'll make it a point to refer to the S10 as a Japanese bike.

And no, the $3000 is for maintanance and mechanical problems, not including gas.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

 

[Gee-Tee]

Try and repeat the Nick Sanders journey on a GS and let us know how that turns out.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk

 

[snakebitten]

3xranger,

While there was nothing offensive to me, it appears we live in an easily offended world nowadays.

Especially with the internet and our shrinking world. Too easy for cultural exchanges between folks that would have no idea of any taboos.

I still believe in grace and innocence. And nobody is gonna change me.

But still, the mechanic is full of crap. Lol

 

[mingo]

Try and repeat the Nick Sanders journey on a GS and let us know how that turns out.

) That's 50,000 miles in 100 consecutive days from North America to the southern tip of South America 3 times back to back with minimal maintenance, I'm talking about 2 oil changes, and running on any fuel he could find.

 

[snakebitten]

And then a filmed tear down of the motor to reveal its amazing lack of wear.

This bike is a benchmark for ruggedness. Period. A class of its own.

 

[Don in Lodi]

LOL, I love all my 'Jap crap'; current 22yr old Toy truck, current Tenere, former '97 Royal Star, former '86 xl600, former '82 CB900, former '81 xl185, former '69 CT90 (wish I still had this one). The Royal and 600 are still on the road. The 900 traded for the Royal, it was purty, should still be going. And don't call me 'white', I'll go and get all offended...

Wow, on reflection, I've never owned or driven as my own, an 'American Made' vehicle. Learned to ride on the '69. Learned to drive a '71 Datsun pu. First truck was a '76 Datsun...
We owned a big assed Merc family land yacht once upon a time... even had the faux wood siding!

 

[GrahamD]

Out of date and probably irrelevant.

1) My mechanic has three 1970's era Japanese bikes fully restored and parts are available for selected popular models.
2) The Japanese make top quality stuff and have for a while. BMW make top quality stuff when it's right.
3) The difference between the two will have more to do with how you treat the bike. If you treat the S10 with the same respect as the BMW it will go long time. It deserves it just as much and you can keep the change.
4) The Japanese have always tended to be "reliability obsessed" to the determent of some things like "bleeding edge" weight reduction and have tended to assume the customer is just a bit slack and design accordingly.
5) I know people personally that have a total of 6 1970's vintage Japanese classics in pristine condition still running regularly. Katana (Wire wheeled), Z900, XS650 x2, KZ900 import, Goldwing 1000 (Original WasserBoxer).
6) Better to talk about Honda, Kawasaki, Suzuki and YAMAHA as separate identities.
J.A.P motorcycles were English and made in the early 1900's, and made engines for other people.

The S10 will last, if looked after. The question to ask is do you really care about 500,000 miles or is that just for bragging rights.

 

[mingo]

oops, and I forgot to reply to the OP's original question.


Myth or fact?

FACT ..... back in the 60's, where bikes weren't all that reliable and BMW earned a reputation for reliability... since then a lot has changed. BMW cannot compete on price, cannot compete on reliability, so what's left, adding more and more electronics to their bikes and letting their customers do the testing. If I sound bitter, it's because I'm a former bmw owner.. and i've owned a lot of their bikes and unfortunately, there were a lot of issues from design flaws to quality issues.


I would put the new GS head to head with a SuperTenere with some real world riding for a few years and let's see which one stays on the road the longest.