New ECU Flash Option: DIY FLASHING

[Dallara]

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(edit: posted this *after* you posted the maps, but *before* you posted your last reply after the maps)


Cool!

Pretty easy to see why "T" mode feels so *soft* down low compared to "S" mode.

And also easy to see why whacking the throttle wide-open at low revs, high-load would make it act just like a slide carb would under the same circumstances, too! ::025::

Things like this are things those fooling with PC-V's and AT's would never see...

Thanks!

Dallara



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[~TABASCO~]

Jaxon,

Do I even care? Nope. That is why I went out of my way to work with a company to develop the EXACT solution I wanted. Don't care at all.

I don't care if no one else with a Tenere buys one. Doesn't matter to me. I don't make a living from selling products for the Tenere. I own a Tenere as a hobby. Playing with the tuning parameters is just that to me also: a HOBBY.

If I hit a brick wall and want to knock it down, I'll hit up a dyno. Until then, I am happy playing with the throttle maps and decel. Am I leaving some on the table by not playing with timing and/or fuel? MAYBE. So far I am ok. Every once in a while I could stand to leave something on the table. Maybe I wouldn't be such a fatty if I did it more often.

How do you know the end user wouldn't get to the same point or a BETTER point? Do you know, EXACTLY, what ECU-U did?

I do have headers. I do have a Leo Vince exhaust. I've looked at EVERY PCV map I could get my hand on. I see NONE where "more fuel all over" is employed.

I'm not sure why this is turning into an ECU-U Re-flash vs a Flash Tune Tuning Interface discussion. As difficult as it might seem, these 2 products actually serve completely different purposes.

The ECU-U is a better product for the vast majority of owners. Without a good base of FT developed files, the interface is way above what the vast majority of adventure touring riders need/want.

ac

These both are great products. I’m sure you will find what works for your bike and the surging issue... The fuel is needed in places on the fuel table, not across the whole map.. This can be an outstanding product for sure. ::008:: Good luck

 

[twinrider]

3k in 6th is a condition that I don't use often.

You have the right idea, but all of your ideas about what is causing it are not likely to be the cause.

There is an accelerator pump function in the ECU, but Yamaha does not sue it. ECU-U might.

The fly by wire has virtually NO lag.

Instead, I feel confident that the exact opposite is happening. The engine is getting more throttle than it can handle. If intake velocities drop off, WOT isn't necessarily the most powerful throttle position for a given rpm/load.

ac

Thanks for the explanation, makes sense to me. I don't go WFO at 3K in 6th often either, just messing around a bit to see how the bike responds.

 

[GrahamD]

A "cheap" way to feel more power is to create a "ramping" map.

I could have a small bet that is what Triumph do. crank it up faster at small opening.

AVC and Tabasco, good to see some cooler stuff ahead for the "thinking mans bike" ::012::

 

[Rasher]

I could have a small bet that is what Triumph do. crank it up faster at small opening.

You won't get great odds, this is a known fact - they now offer a free update to tame it a bit, all a ploy to hide the fact it is not all that quick, or all that grunty off the bottom end, even the press noticed this on the launch, the bike took off on a small amount of throttle, but opening it up further gave no more power, and it also made the throttle choppy and the bike more difficult to control / ride smoothly.

I like my ECU-U setup, if anything it could do with being a shade less aggressive on the first 5% - 10%, although it could just be the engines off - to - on throttle characteristics rather than a map issue, as even pre ECU-U it was a bit jerky as you first get back on the gas.

 

[creggur]

Good lord I thought I was a geek - you guys take it to a whole new level...

 

[avc8130]

~


(edit: posted this *after* you posted the maps, but *before* you posted your last reply after the maps)


Cool!

Pretty easy to see why "T" mode feels so *soft* down low compared to "S" mode.

Thanks!

Dallara



~

Ha! You think that was bad? Check out 1st gear:



ac

 

[Dallara]

Ha! You think that was bad? Check out 1st gear:

<map table snipped>

ac

Wow!!! That's incredible! No wonder the thing feels emasculated in "T" mode!!! ???

Now I know why I never use "T" mode any longer, even in the wet. I just leave it "S" and the TCS look out for me.

Just curious, and a bit of a question for both you and Tabasco...

You've talked to Chris at Flash-Tune, but you've really only been doing this a fairly short time. Tabasco says he's "worked with Flash Tune for many months and have worked with Chris personally on this software for months...", etc. Just wondering why Jaxon hasn't posted this kind of data before. Do you know?

Tabasco???

Dallara




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[roy]

This exist now for most Suzuki sportbikes and I absolutely love it! Both my GSXR's have a flash/harness on them. However on my Tenere I probably won't be messing with anything but I have been known to change my mind. As for my GSXR's changes happen day one right out of the showroom.

Thanks for putting this together on the Tenere. I know it can be a lot of hard work doing all the up front leg work on a project like this.

 

[avc8130]

This exist now for most Suzuki sportbikes and I absolutely love it! Both my GSXR's have a flash/harness on them. However on my Tenere I probably won't be messing with anything but I have been known to change my mind. As for my GSXR's changes happen day one right out of the showroom.

Thanks for putting this together on the Tenere. I know it can be a lot of hard work doing all the up front leg work on a project like this.

Oh come on...every 600lb adventure trailie NEEDS a quick shifter!

ac

 

[roy]

Oh come on...every 600lb adventure trailie NEEDS a quick shifter!

ac

::015::

Only if I can have it in GP shift pattern ;D

 

[avc8130]

::015::

Only if I can have it in GP shift pattern ;D

I've been looking at that. I'm not sure the shifter can be reversed as easily as most sport bikes. It looks like the shift rod will hit the engine case if we try to swap the arm around the spline.

ac

 

[roy]

I've been looking at that. I'm not sure the shifter can be reversed as easily as most sport bikes. It looks like the shift rod will hit the engine case if we try to swap the arm around the spline.

ac

I noticed the same thing. The GSXRs have an adjustable shifter pivot that helps avoid this on them.

 

[3putt]

Really glad to see this going on. I just purchased a Moto Guzzi Griso, and it has a flat spot 2500 - 3500rpm and runs great above. We have free software, Guzzi Diag, also could use the other free Ducati Diag, but they have dropped support and closed the website. Supporting this stuff over multiple OS platforms and all the drivers required with cable must be a huge job.

Ducati Multistrada has tuneboy to do the same with datalogging to develop personal maps.

On the guzzi, I most likely will purchase an A/F meter and logger to work it out. Fun stuff for sure, and is a big attraction for me.

But, I would never buy a reflash by anyone if I didn't know what they were changing. The ST ran great stock for me, and I didn't live in places that others seemed to want to change in the gears or rev range. Enjoy the picture show boys! (from oh, brother where art thou).

 

[avc8130]

Really glad to see this going on. I just purchased a Moto Guzzi Griso, and it has a flat spot 2500 - 3500rpm and runs great above. We have free software, Guzzi Diag, also could use the other free Ducati Diag, but they have dropped support and closed the website. Supporting this stuff over multiple OS platforms and all the drivers required with cable must be a huge job.

Ducati Multistrada has tuneboy to do the same with datalogging to develop personal maps.

On the guzzi, I most likely will purchase an A/F meter and logger to work it out. Fun stuff for sure, and is a big attraction for me.

But, I would never buy a reflash by anyone if I didn't know what they were changing. The ST ran great stock for me, and I didn't live in places that others seemed to want to change in the gears or rev range. Enjoy the picture show boys! (from oh, brother where art thou).

I see you have experience. I think you should "go for it" with the Tenere. The throttle is restricted from Yamaha. Just removing that restriction makes a huge difference.

The interface comes with a baseline map to get you started. I ran this map for quite a while (7k miles including NJ to TX and back) and it is quite good.

When you buy the interface it is essentially like buying a reflash that you can tailor if you don't like it straight out of the box.

ac

 

[3putt]

Thanks, but I sold the Super Tenere, can only keep 2 bikes, was 1, but I wrangled 2 at once. LOL

If I still had it, I would be all over the free software for sure. I am reading all I can get my hands on for maps so I can fix the Guzzi, would have done the same thing with the ST, keep up the DIY work!

 

[Dallara]

...I think you should "go for it" with the Tenere. The throttle is restricted from Yamaha. Just removing that restriction makes a huge difference.

The interface comes with a baseline map to get you started. I ran this map for quite a while (7k miles including NJ to TX and back) and it is quite good.

When you buy the interface it is essentially like buying a reflash that you can tailor if you don't like it straight out of the box.

ac

Geez, don't tell some folks around here that... It will make all the thousands of dollars they have thrown at PC-V's, AT's, extra O2 sensors, pipes, K&N filters, etc., etc., etc. seem pretty fruitless...

Hell, you might be driving some of them right to the edge of suicide!!! ???

To be honest, if this set-up had been around a year-and-a-half ago I would have gone that way instead of any re-flash. Worked well with my Ducati Hypermotard. Certainly a lot more useful, and worthwhile, than using a PC-V.

Thanks again for doing all the work on this, AVC! ::008::

Dallara



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[avc8130]

Thanks again for doing all the work on this, AVC! ::008::

Dallara



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It has been my pleasure. At this point I just want some other crazies to join me so we can start a sounding board and share ECU files.

I think that was attempted with the PCV, but it seems to have gone "underground" as there was financial interest in it. Chris will never be on here looking to protect maps or anything, this is more "open source" than that.

ac

 

[Dallara]

It has been my pleasure. At this point I just want some other crazies to join me so we can start a sounding board and share ECU files.

I think that was attempted with the PCV, but it seems to have gone "underground" as there was financial interest in it. Chris will never be on here looking to protect maps or anything, this is more "open source" than that.

ac

That's been one of the problems with the entire PC-V, AT, etc. thing with the Super Tenere. Any of the maps, etc. were centered around folks who stood to profit from the sale of the hardware. Definitely a bit of a conflict of interest there - i.e. "Buy the PC-V and here's some maps... But wait, you really also need the AT. Oh, and with the AT you also need another O2 sensor... And a bung welded on the header... Oh, and then an oiled-gauze filter, too! And an aftermarket muffler, too! And, BTW, even with all this you really should get an ECUunleashed re-flash,too!"

Ad infinitum.

Problem is with all that, I don't recall anyone on this side of the pond providing any sort of documented proof that any of that had any real, verifiable performance increase or benefit. It was all anecdotal, nothing more, and often third-person "So-and-so told me that it worked..." kind of hearsay. No dyno results. No drag strip comparisons. No timed 0-60's or 50-to-80 roll-on's. Nothing. Just fluff.

And that still seems to be all that's out there. At least you've been honest and forthright, not making any claims as to massive HP increases, etc. Thanks for that. It gives your efforts a massive amount of credibility... Certainly much more than so many who have been offering up various PC-V maps, etc.

Dallara



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[Karson]

I think a lot of it has to do with there really isn't a big performance aftermarket following yet, if ever, for this bike. Not saying it doesn't benefit greatly from it in my opinion, it's just there's not much forum activity saying one way or the other...

The R1/R6 crowd has thousands of owners along with Graves Motorsports offering all sorts of exhaust/airbox/flash options along with specific PCV/FT/Bazzaz maps for users. The S10 crowd has a what seems like less than a handful of folks actively supporting performance mods (of any nature) at any given time.

I'll be the first one to say I've been promising dyno'd maps from Tony Tice at Van Wall Powersports. Unfortunately the day I was going to play hooky and take the day and go down there on August 6th, I had forgotten Microsoft was on site for the week. The week after I was on vacation. I'm in San Francisco next week. It's not a high priority where I needed to do it yesterday, but something I'm curious about so I'm going to do it. I'm not a butt-dyno advocate, but I bit on what blue_eyes was doing back in the day, and no doubt KNOW there's a quantifiable difference in power at the rearwheel. But, that was a time before this place turned into a forum where every post had to be followed up with a defense statement against a prominant vocal naysayer(s). Individual(s) who haven't even put a single bolt on performance part on the bike but claim they know what works and what doesn't.

I'll come through with a map or two by the end of the riding season.