New ECU Flash Option: DIY FLASHING

[jaeger22]

Wow AC thanks for exploring this. ::012:: It is exactly what I have been waiting for!
I am a long way from an EFI expert but I did convert my DR-650 to EFI and did all the programing and tuning of the maps. I learned a lot and have had an absolute blast doing it. It runs great and I still have not blown up the motor! ;D At least so far. :
I will be ordering one of these kits as soon as I get home from my current C to C trip. (I am at present still 2,000 miles from home in Albuquerque)
As you alluded to in another post, a complete tuning set up would require a dyno or a data logging set up so you can see what you are doing. I believe data logging would would require extra software in the ECU, unless Yamaha has it hidden in the current code and someone figures out how to access it. And Dyno time is $$$$$$!
On the DR, I do have data logging ( built into the MicroSquirt ECU) which is wonderful but I also have a wide band O2 sensor and AFR gauge. I am thinking I could add the Wide band O2 sensor and AFR meter to the S10 and do at least some minor tuning based on observing the reading in real time as I ride. This is a much slower process than using a dyno or data logging set up but I am not in a hurry.
I look forward to developing and swapping maps. This is going to be fun! ::015::

Quote from: jbrown on Today at 09:35:30 pm

I'd like to have control over everything the ECU does!
For instance, assuming the ECU conditions data for the display, I'd like to fix the speedometer without messing up the input used for other purposes.
Having access to the machine code makes lots of stuff possible, if you're willing to spend enough time on it.

JB, Another EE here and I get your desire for access to the code but if I understand this correctly, we will not have access to the actual executable code itself.
All EFI code I know of makes extensive use of table look ups, or maps as they are known in the EFI world. What we will be able to access and modify is those maps. But as AC states, you will need to clearly understand how the maps work and interact. If you really want to have full control you could replace the ECU with a MicroSquirt processor. With that ECU you can download the complete source code and the compiler for free and hack away. But that would be a heck of a lot of work for little improvement I expect. I think the maps will give me plenty to play with for a LONG time! ::013::

 

[Smee]

I have already gone the easy route, just bridged the wire by the clutch. This is on advice from Craig, a buddy of mine, and it apparently gives an extra 15hp just like that, but not having ever ridden without it, I honestly don't know. It was done for me before I even took delivery.
This bike is going to take some getting used to though. My KTM did not want to keep the front wheel down, this one does not want to get it up - good for pulling away quickly, but will have to relearn the wheelie skills as I just love 'em.

 

[Bigbore4]

What are you looking for?

Luckily the coding is just about identical to the R6 and the R1. Those 2 platforms are really driving the development and unlocking. What exists right now is just the preliminary framework. Chris is constantly adding and updating features.

In the works:
Adjustable RPM scales for engine braking to allow finer tuning.
TCS system control!

I'm testing out a quick shifter on my Tenere right now. WOT shifting with an ignition cut-out is ridiculous fun on a 600lb adventure bike! For now I'm just using a spare brake light switch rigged up to activate when the shifter moves:


ac

Them quick shifters are just wicked fun. One of my pals back in the.....ah when I was young.....

Anyway, he was building electronic kill boxes. Adjustable form naught to about a half second. We wired em in and used the horn button. Get a little tension on the shift lever, poke the button and bam, gear change.

Had mine an a Yami triple with a Kerker on it which should date me. Man when you took off with that thing and nailed a few gears it just sounded BAD AZZ.

I want one again just cuz it sounds so cool

Oh by the way, you suck.
>

 

[tc9988]

Well...it was not a smooth paved road. I am where I am successfully, but there was some work on my part. Chris is the mastermind at FT. Unfortunately, he is VERY busy with REAL race teams supporting AMA racing so he is very tough to get in touch with during race season, but when I do he is an awesome guy to work with. He spent close to an hour on the phone diagnosing troubles I was having flashing initially. It turned out my Posi-tap was the issue.

It also needs to be understood that this is a tuning TOOL, not a plug and play solution. The ECU is unlocked, there is a nice graphical display to edit parameters, it is very easy to "use". HOWEVER, there is no guidance or direction. If you don't know what you are looking at, or don't understand what you are doing, this might be a bit too much for you.

I've learned a lot and figured out a lot by bringing my knowledge over from past Triumph (Tune ECU) and Buell (ECMSpy/TunerPRO).

You won't get much tech support. I've been using the R1 and R6 user forums as a guide. If Tenere guys buy in, we will probably be able to support ourselves sharing maps and experiences. Standing alone has its drawbacks.

I've made some "errors". I created a scary version of "cruise control" playing with reducing engine braking. I made a throttle map so aggressive that the bike would jump uncontrollably at a certain point. The BEST thing about the Tenere is the 2 modes. I have 1 ECU map that I am very satisfied with. I leave this as "T" mode and use "S" for experimentation. I can always switch to T if something is too wonky in S until I get a chance to fix it.

ac

Here's your comment from May 15, 2012 "I got the impression the organization was a bunch of clowns.

ac"


Glad to see you hung in and like spending time at the circus because I think this DIY ECU tuning will end up being the dogs bollocks ::008::

 

[twinrider]

You DIY guys are braver than me! ::008::

Took all my courage just to mail my ECU half way around the world to Texas for the Gen. II flash, love the results though.... ::018::

 

[creggur]

You DIY guys are braver than me! ::008::

Took all my courage just to mail my ECU half way around the world to Texas for the Gen. II flash, love the results though.... ::018::

^^ This ^^

Like I said, this entire discussion is fascinating to me, and I will thoroughly enjoy this thread and seeing where you guys go with this thing, and the results you get. Like Twin, though, I got nervous just UPSing my ECU across three states, couldn't imagine what kind of mess I'd make if I had access to this stuff.

Way above my pay grade.

 

[coastie]

You guys have a blast! I'm going out riding.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2

 

[avc8130]

Them quick shifters are just wicked fun. One of my pals back in the.....ah when I was young.....

Anyway, he was building electronic kill boxes. Adjustable form naught to about a half second. We wired em in and used the horn button. Get a little tension on the shift lever, poke the button and bam, gear change.

Had mine an a Yami triple with a Kerker on it which should date me. Man when you took off with that thing and nailed a few gears it just sounded BAD AZZ.

I want one again just cuz it sounds so cool

Oh by the way, you suck.
>

The quick shifter function is excellent. There is a fully adjustable table for delay and kill duration based on rpm and gear. There are also threshold rpm for when it is active. The QS is also disabled in neutral, clutch in, and 6th gear.

I LOVE it. It is just ridiculous on this bike.

ac

 

[avc8130]

Wow AC thanks for exploring this. ::012:: It is exactly what I have been waiting for!
I am a long way from an EFI expert but I did convert my DR-650 to EFI and did all the programing and tuning of the maps. I learned a lot and have had an absolute blast doing it. It runs great and I still have not blown up the motor! ;D At least so far. :
I will be ordering one of these kits as soon as I get home from my current C to C trip. (I am at present still 2,000 miles from home in Albuquerque)
As you alluded to in another post, a complete tuning set up would require a dyno or a data logging set up so you can see what you are doing. I believe data logging would would require extra software in the ECU, unless Yamaha has it hidden in the current code and someone figures out how to access it. And Dyno time is $$$$$$!
On the DR, I do have data logging ( built into the MicroSquirt ECU) which is wonderful but I also have a wide band O2 sensor and AFR gauge. I am thinking I could add the Wide band O2 sensor and AFR meter to the S10 and do at least some minor tuning based on observing the reading in real time as I ride. This is a much slower process than using a dyno or data logging set up but I am not in a hurry.
I look forward to developing and swapping maps. This is going to be fun! ::015::

I've considered a wide band setup with logging, but everything I see shows that the fuel maps aren't THAT bad. Most PCV maps seems to LEAN out the fueling at WOT. The areas that need attention (small TPS, low RPM) are very difficult to replicate on the dyno and very tough to log as they are very sporadic. Once you see inside the ECU you will see the fueling "decision" in that area isn't straight forward.

ac

 

[jaeger22]

Quote from avc8130

I've considered a wide band setup with logging, but everything I see shows that the fuel maps aren't THAT bad. Most PCV maps seems to LEAN out the fueling at WOT. The areas that need attention (small TPS, low RPM) are very difficult to replicate on the dyno and very tough to log as they are very sporadic. Once you see inside the ECU you will see the fueling "decision" in that area isn't straight forward.

Very good points. I don't expect to be able to make any large difference in the overall fuel maps. As you point out the feed back I have seen is that the maps are fat through most of the range. I expect that is done deliberately to give the engine more tolerance for low grade fuel without pinging but that is just a guess. But there may be room for improvement in the low RPM, small TPS area just because I expect Yamaha had to deviate from optimal fueling to pass emissions. And I see that you have already experimented with some of other parameters that we can access with the kit. Very cool.
From your other post, it sounds like Yamaha is using a blended MAP approach. I used a similar approach on my DR. One map is Alpha-N or straight TPS/RPM map. The second map is Speed Density or MAP/RPM map. In operation, the two maps are multiplied together. The value in each map cell is VE or Volumetric Efficiency and represents a percentage of wide open fuel required. Either type, Alpha-n or speed density can work OK by itself but each has advantages. Alpha-N works better at very low throttle settings where MAP is unstable and at near open throttle because MAP does not very much between around 2/3 open and wide open. But Speed Density (MAP driven) is much better at sensing load at mid-range. By blending the maps you can get the best of both worlds but the tuning is interesting to say the least! If I understand your first post about CJM with the maps you showed, Yamaha uses a third map to determine how much each map contributes. In my case, I just put 100% in the cells of each map that I did not want to control that cell. Then the other map has total control as 100% of X is X. It works great but tuning. . . . yes interesting! :
I don't expect to ever be able to improve or even match ECUnleashed Gen 2 that many on this forum are so happy with. That sounds like the best and fastest path to a better running motor and not a lot more $. But I will have fun playing with it and hope to learn a lot!
I am thinking the AFR meter would provide useful clues to correlate with what I am feeling. If I get a stumble, I would assume too lean but how much? Or is it really too rich and just feels like it is lean for some reason? Data, I need data! LOL
Please continue to post your results as you experiment. And if I ever get anything useful I will do the same.
Thanks,
John

 

[avc8130]

You are spot on with how Yamaha does the fueling.

From your post, I would say you NEED the interface. You have plenty of knowledge and skill to enjoy it.

I'm curious to ride a ECU-U flashed bike. My S mode map is flat out ridiculous. I'd be surprised if the ECU-U is as aggressive.

ac

 

[Rasher]

I would be very interested if the get a copy of the ECU-U map and can provide a similar map out of the box, I would not want to risk buying this and ending up with a map worse than the one I already have (and paid good money for) The ECU-U V2 is very good and has given me a good improvement in economy.

What I would rather do is start with my ECU-U map and get this device on my bike and down to a local tuner with a dyno to optimise it for my bike. The ECU-U in the cruising areas is spot on, good throttle response and great economy, I would not want to deviate much from their maps in 4th-6th between 3k and 5k, but if more power can be grabbed above 5k / out of the closed loop area I would want it

I would also like to improve the T-Mode, it is still far too flat for my liking, the original Yamaha map for S mode would be better, but without the restrictions in 1st - 3rd, I dislike throttle - butterfly mappings being wildly different in each gear as it messes with the "feel" for me. Maybe the T Modes sixth gear map for all T-Mode gears with optimising of fuelling would work well, this would give a more gentle throttle response than S-Mode, but without the peaky delivery in lower gears.

If it can fix the surging with Arrow Headers I am definitely in, subject to copy of ECU-U code to start from.

 

[avc8130]

I would be very interested if the get a copy of the ECU-U map and can provide a similar map out of the box, I would not want to risk buying this and ending up with a map worse than the one I already have (and paid good money for) The ECU-U V2 is very good and has given me a good improvement in economy.

What I would rather do is start with my ECU-U map and get this device on my bike and down to a local tuner with a dyno to optimise it for my bike. The ECU-U in the cruising areas is spot on, good throttle response and great economy, I would not want to deviate much from their maps in 4th-6th between 3k and 5k, but if more power can be grabbed above 5k / out of the closed loop area I would want it

I would also like to improve the T-Mode, it is still far too flat for my liking, the original Yamaha map for S mode would be better, but without the restrictions in 1st - 3rd, I dislike throttle - butterfly mappings being wildly different in each gear as it messes with the "feel" for me. Maybe the T Modes sixth gear map for all T-Mode gears with optimising of fuelling would work well, this would give a more gentle throttle response than S-Mode, but without the peaky delivery in lower gears.

If it can fix the surging with Arrow Headers I am definitely in, subject to copy of ECU-U code to start from.

I have stated previously, for anyone with the ECU-U flash Flash Tune is willing to extract the ECU-U flash to provide to THOSE customers as a "backup".

I am currently running an unrestricted S throttle map as my T mode. I think that is what ECU-U did for gen 1.

You can fix surging. I have found a few different methods to attack it and I am working on deciding which I think is most proper.

You are spot on with getting the Flash Tune interface and heading to a tuner. Just make sure the tuner is good and willing to work with this software. Due to the extra options it is much more complicated than doing the typical "tuning" which is a WOT run on a Dynojet building a PC map.

ac

 

[twinrider]

I'm happy with the Gen. II T mode. I think its mildness will be very handy in slick conditions and possibly offroad. It also makes it easier to carry a passenger when you're too lazy to be ultra precise with the throttle openings in S mode.

Where I think there's room for improvement is the response in S in 6th gear. For example, cruising at 60mph the bike is actually quicker with a partial throttle opening than wacking it WFO. Doing the latter tends to cause it to bog a bit till the RPMs rise up. Maybe it's getting more fuel than it can handle with my Akra and stock air filter, not sure. But I'm sure it could be dialed out on a dyno with some kind of tuning device.

 

[avc8130]

I'm happy with the Gen. II T mode. I think its mildness will be very handy in slick conditions and possibly offroad. It also makes it easier to carry a passenger when you're too lazy to be ultra precise with the throttle openings in S mode.

Where I think there's room for improvement is the response in S in 6th gear. For example, cruising at 60mph the bike is actually quicker with a partial throttle opening than wacking it WFO. Doing the latter tends to cause it to bog a bit till the RPMs rise up. Maybe it's getting more fuel than it can handle with my Akra and stock air filter, not sure. But I'm sure it could be dialed out on a dyno with some kind of tuning device.

I'll place money that your 6th gear issue has nothing to do with fuel.

Instead I bet ECU-U is using a ramping throttle map. This is an electronic throttle trick where you program the throttle bodies to open MORE than the wrist commands to give the FEELING of more torqued and hp.

They probably use the same map for all 6 gears. The bike probably has the power to handle it in the lower gears, but in 6th when you go to pass the intake air velocity drops when the throttle is opened larger than the motor can handle and you get BOG.

You could mess with that and probably "fix" it with the flash interface in just a few iterations.

ac

 

[fredz43]

I never noticed that with my Gen 2 flash, Akra and OEM air filter. I'll have to deliberatly try to make it happen.

 

[snakebitten]

I never noticed that with my Gen 2 flash, Akra and OEM air filter. I'll have to deliberatly try to make it happen.

I tried it earlier today after it was mentioned.
6th gear.
I can't get it to stumble or fall on its face.

And I don't ever remember it before my flash.

But keep in mind that I'm not likely to experience WOT issues since on this bike, WOT isn't really called for with my riding style. I do haul butt. I do give it the gas. But WOT isn't 50% or 80%. It's full stop.

 

[avc8130]

Either way, the Flash Tune harness isn't for those who are happy with canned tunes. This harness is for those who want to have the ability to do as THEY please with their ECU.

I have no doubt the Gen 2 ECU-U flash isn't amazing.

HOWEVER, I have had an absolute BLAST developing my own throttle and decel maps. I've made throttle maps that are completely un-restricted that work excellent as a "T" mode map. My "S" mode map is VERY aggressive. Small throttle movements make the bike LEAP forward with authority. It certainly isn't for everyone, but the extreme throttle response is fun.

I'm getting the fueling down very well. From what I read, the fueling on the ECU-U still seems to be "off" for those with headers. I'm able to tweak that area with the harness.

I've adjusted the timing to make "T" mode "bad fuel compatible". If I am somewhere I can't find premium, I have no worries.

PLUS...something that ECU-U does not offer: THE QUICK SHIFTER! This thing is just stupid fun. My poor tire. Pull away from a stop...WOT...just lift the left toes...right through the gears. WOO HOO!

Hopefully a few others feel the urge and order harnesses so we can start some constructive tuning and map sharing.

ac

 

[twinrider]

I never noticed that with my Gen 2 flash, Akra and OEM air filter. I'll have to deliberatly try to make it happen.

I tried it earlier today after it was mentioned.
6th gear.
I can't get it to stumble or fall on its face.

And I don't ever remember it before my flash.

But keep in mind that I'm not likely to experience WOT issues since on this bike, WOT isn't really called for with my riding style. I do haul butt. I do give it the gas. But WOT isn't 50% or 80%. It's full stop.

I probably could have phrased it better, it doesn't stumble or fall on its face. Say I'm cruising along in 6th gear at 3,000 rpms. If I open the throttle partially, the response is very instantaneous but if I WFO it, it doesn't pull as hard till the RPMs rise a bit. Almost like it's got a bit too much fuel for the low RPMs. Not a big deal, and maybe it's just the lag of the fly by wire throttle.

 

[avc8130]

I probably could have phrased it better, it doesn't stumble or fall on its face. Say I'm cruising along in 6th gear at 3,000 rpms. If I open the throttle partially, the response is very instantaneous but if I WFO it, it doesn't pull as hard till the RPMs rise a bit. Almost like it's got a bit too much fuel for the low RPMs. Not a big deal, and maybe it's just the lag of the fly by wire throttle.

3k in 6th is a condition that I don't use often.

You have the right idea, but all of your ideas about what is causing it are not likely to be the cause.

There is an accelerator pump function in the ECU, but Yamaha does not sue it. ECU-U might.

The fly by wire has virtually NO lag.

Instead, I feel confident that the exact opposite is happening. The engine is getting more throttle than it can handle. If intake velocities drop off, WOT isn't necessarily the most powerful throttle position for a given rpm/load.

ac