My bizarre & seemingly unsolvable cruise control issues...hoping for new ideas.

[sigeye]

Re: My bizarre & seemingly unsolvable cruise control issues...hoping for new ideas.

Sorry, I used cc for cruise control. But I have had more than just that issue with it. It has in the past been very sluggish meaning slow to respond to input increase or decrease in speed by tapping +- buttons. My tech spent a whole bunch of time trying to find the problem last year and could not but he said he put some brake pads in it because they looked a bit worn at around 17K miles. The problem really became very intermittent after that...and I really only use cruise control at high speeds. He said he thought it took more time at those speeds 90+ to react. Not sure about the theory of that. Now when I go to use it from time to time when I push the on button...not the set button It will start flashing amber instead of being solid amber. I pull over hit the key off and back on then all is well stays solid amber and I can hit the set button and the green light comes on. I had in the past tried to follow some friends that did not have cc and was always on the + - button thought maybe I wore the thing out. Seems to work well at 60-75 then gets slow to respond is my recollection of the problem. Hope this helps guys.

For what it's worth, I've spent a ton of time troubleshooting intermittent issues like that and I highly recommend you spend the small $$ to replace the following. I feel confident one or more of these will fix your particular case.

1. Brake light relay
2. Front brake light switch
3. Rear brake light switch

Note that the front brake light switch can be broken but still work (causing the intermittent issues). I found that when I first troubleshot mine. There is a tiny plastic nipple internally in the switch that can break in half but still make intermittent connection happen. Can't be repaired, just replaced.

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[sigeye]

Re: My bizarre & seemingly unsolvable cruise control issues...hoping for new ideas.

It's a potentiometer. It will have a reference voltage going to it, it will have a signal coming from it, usually about a .5 volt at idle to somewhere near reference at wot, usually 5 volts, and it will have a ground. And sometimes a forth wire for an idle switch. You'll need a volt meter accurate enough to see and downward voltage spikes, opens in the potentiometer. There is the potential that the voltages will be reversed, full reference at idle, a fraction at wot. This is done key on. I've never tested one with an ohm meter, key off, should be do-able. Key on just lets you see more info.

Unfortunately, that sounds above my skill set. Maybe you should come over and we can put away a few cold ones and try? The 104 degree weather makes for an amazing trip...not to ride, but to drink beer!

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[Nikolajsen]

Re: My bizarre & seemingly unsolvable cruise control issues...hoping for new ideas.

It's a potentiometer. It will have a reference voltage going to it, it will have a signal coming from it, usually about a .5 volt at idle to somewhere near reference at wot, usually 5 volts, and it will have a ground. And sometimes a forth wire for an idle switch. You'll need a volt meter accurate enough to see and downward voltage spikes, opens in the potentiometer. There is the potential that the voltages will be reversed, full reference at idle, a fraction at wot. This is done key on. I've never tested one with an ohm meter, key off, should be do-able. Key on just lets you see more info.

If we for a minute say this is the way it works (of course it is when Don in Lodi write it ), then there is 2 possiblities for error.
The potentiometer can have bad spots, and work on all the rest of working area. And this can be tested like Don in Lodi describe. But there must also be an analog input, that take the input from potentiometer, and act according to what the input is, and this analog input can also be defect, and this is not possible to measure because it happens inside the electronic. Have to put in a new electronic, where the input is....I have no idea where, and how integrated the input is :question:

Another thing that comes to mind right now......I think I read in the standard manual, something about that the cruise control only works above a curtain speed, and a bit different according to what gear you are in. Where does the electronic get this information from?? sensors on whel?? and what happens if the speed sensor suddenly get (wrong) information, about that the speed is to low??? either from sensor, or an error inside electronic.
But if it is from the wheel sensor, I think there should be an error message, or ABS control light should light up (just thinking out loud )

(Thank you all, for helping me with the abbreviations, I should have figured this out me self )

 

[Checkswrecks]

Don captured the potentiometer description - Thanks


Sigeye - Several aspects do involve the ECU. Is it possible for the Yamaha (dealer?) techs or a friend to lend you an ECU to swap? If the problem remains, then you've ruled out a big item.

 

[sigeye]

Re: My bizarre & seemingly unsolvable cruise control issues...hoping for new ideas.

Don captured the potentiometer description - Thanks


Sigeye - Several aspects do involve the ECU. Is it possible for the Yamaha (dealer?) techs or a friend to lend you an ECU to swap? If the problem remains, then you've ruled out a big item.

Already done actually. ECU was replaced a couple weeks ago and did not change the issues at all. So it was removed and returned.

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[mebgardner]

Re: My bizarre & seemingly unsolvable cruise control issues...hoping for new ideas.

Already done actually. ECU was replaced a couple weeks ago and did not change the issues at all. So it was removed and returned.

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That's first rate service, and in my opinion, they should be congradulated, and obtain more of your service in the future. It probably does not feel like that to you, at the moment, and I understand that. My opinion is, not many shops will "lend" a high dollar component like that, for a test.

First rate, I say. Good for them, good for you!

 

[sigeye]

I agree completely. The dealership is Central Texas Powersports in my hometown of Georgetown, TX. I've been doing business with only them for a very long time. Yamaha actually made the offer and the dealer facilitated it, but I know it is only because the dealer represented me very well with Yamaha and gently nudged them in that direction.

If you're ever passing through, stop by to see them. PS: I've never found anyone that can beat their tire prices (online or in a dealership).

Just a darn good privately owned dealership that still feels like the dealerships used to before the big corporations started taking many over.

 

[sigeye]

Re: My bizarre & seemingly unsolvable cruise control issues...hoping for new ideas.

Still awaiting review feedback and next steps from Yamaha. Hoping to have results soon.

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[Nikolajsen]

Which sensor is given info about speed?? Wheel sensor? sensor i crankcase?
I'm thinking about that the electronic for a split second, think you are below the speed, where the cruise control work.

 

[mebgardner]

Which sensor is given info about speed?? Wheel sensor? sensor i crankcase?
I'm thinking about that the electronic for a split second, think you are below the speed, where the cruise control work.

I understand your point. I believe these highly, tightly, integrated systems are going to be a B*tch to sort of this sort of problem.

The systems that all communicate with each other. Hey, it could drive a new tools market! Lets develop new tools for these highly integrated cycles!

We'll sell a million of'em, yeah that's the ticket!

 

[TheCouzin780]

Just throwing this out there.

But possible Tires? You have changed the tires on the bike a few times.

If the Tires are not reading the same wheel speeds it will cancel the cc. I have seen this on cars with staggered wheels and Jobber shops not putting correct tires on. eg Bigger size in back then stock and leaving fronts stock size.

Maybe ask the dealer for a favor and swap tires and rims from another bike that either has new tires on them or something like that.

I may be way out to lunch but just a thought. Cause it does monitor the wheel speeds at front and rear.

Cheers

 

[sigeye]

Which sensor is given info about speed?? Wheel sensor? sensor i crankcase?
I'm thinking about that the electronic for a split second, think you are below the speed, where the cruise control work.

The rear wheel sensor supplies the speed input and we haven't been able to find any issues with it at all.

 

[sigeye]

Just throwing this out there.

But possible Tires? You have changed the tires on the bike a few times.

If the Tires are not reading the same wheel speeds it will cancel the cc. I have seen this on cars with staggered wheels and Jobber shops not putting correct tires on. eg Bigger size in back then stock and leaving fronts stock size.

Maybe ask the dealer for a favor and swap tires and rims from another bike that either has new tires on them or something like that.

I may be way out to lunch but just a thought. Cause it does monitor the wheel speeds at front and rear.

Cheers

I am 99.9% confident that the tires have not been a part of the equation in any way. Reason I say that is because I've never had anything on the bike except for the OE sizes. When issues started, I would have had a set of TKC 70's on. I've since had Mitas E07 Dakars, then the OE Bridgestones and back to Mitas E07 Dakars. No tire selection made any difference in the issues experienced unfortunately.

On another note, I do finally have some updates that I think folks may be interested in learning about...

Dealer called me and advised that the engineers were unable to extract anything of value from the logged data that was generated by the Yamaha Diagnostic Tool during the 15-minute riding session (2nd session, because 1st was a bust). This was disappointing to hear, but they did come back with another avenue.

The new plan is that I drop the bike back off at the dealership Tuesday morning and the dealer will install the Yamaha Diagnostic Tool again. The dealer will then connect the Yamaha Diagnostic Tool to their WiFi network and then call the factory Yamaha engineer POC that is already awaiting their call on Tuesday. The engineer will then remotely connect to the diagnostic tool installed on my bike and remotely run it through testing. Apparently (with the key on of course), the engineer specified that he/she can run it through the entire cruise control process without it even having to be ridden. The engineer also clarified that there are (5) relays in the circuit that he will be testing in his evaluation. We are also hoping to connect the diagnostic tool to WiFi via a 4G cell phone and then have the engineer remotely connected while it is ridden and can provide totally 'live' data for the engineer and rider to evaluate and communicate during.

I had no idea the Yamaha Diagnostic Tool was capable of network and remote connection. I think that is awesome and I'm glad that we're pursuing this now.

So even though I still have no answers of any type, I'm hoping that Tuesday can produce 'something'. Fingers crossed... ::002::

 

[mebgardner]

Awesome in a kinda scary kinda way.

 

[Nikolajsen]

The rear wheel sensor supplies the speed input and we haven't been able to find any issues with it at all.

When it is the wheel sensor, that of course also provide data for ABS, TCS, then I also think we can clearify this sensor, because I then believe there would be error meassege, even if it have a very short malfuction, because of ABS and TCS system.

Perfect that Yamaha can go online, and simulate a normal driving with CC, and only having ignition on ::012::
Because then then error have to occour very often. I understand that when you driving on the bike, the error occour immediately.

 

[Checkswrecks]

Awesome in a kinda scary kinda way.

If you want to scare yourself, learn about the cyber hacks that can be done to your car.

 

[Jeff Milleman]

Have you ever checked the square wave pattern of the frt and rear sensors with a scope ? I do it on cars so it can be ck'ed on the bike ! good luck on tuesday.

 

[sigeye]

Re: My bizarre & seemingly unsolvable cruise control issues...hoping for new ideas.

Have you ever checked the square wave pattern of the frt and rear sensors with a scope ? I do it on cars so it can be ck'ed on the bike ! good luck on tuesday.

I don't have the tool or knowledge to do this. What would I need and how is it done?

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[Don in Lodi]

A graphing volt meter can check the output from each sensor. Unplug at the harness and carefully probe the two pins and have somebody spin the tire. There should be a steady wave like pattern as the magnetic hall effect sensor generates it's on-off tiny voltage. Any drops or extra spikes will be suspect. They will be repeatable on the rotation. A shifting probe on the human side can give you static too. This would indicate a break or contamination in the sensor ring on the wheel. The sensor is a cool bit of physics, collapsing magnetic fields, super basic and super durable, they work or they get damaged and don't.
It's usually heating and cooling that shows the break in a hall effect sensor. Just did two on a Dodge yesterday, a pia crank sensor and an output speed sensor. Both worked fine when cool.

 

[sigeye]

Re: My bizarre & seemingly unsolvable cruise control issues...hoping for new ideas.

I almost feel like a master auto mechanic would more likely have the equipment needed than the dealer, no?

I'll ask about this.

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