Countersteering?

[snakebitten]

That.

And you are so bored you will discuss just about anything.

Bet after you get well your "ignore" skills will recover too.

 

[creggur]

That.

And you are so bored you will discuss just about anything.

Bet after you get well your "ignore" skills will recover too.

Busted...

And good lord I hope so.... I'm on the edge of losing it over here...

 

[Ramseybella]

OMG..

I quit some off road Forum after two days with this same topic, The guys where some rude A-holes.. ::002::

 

[Salmon Sam]

But isn't the physics of countersteering a little bit of a mystery? If my fuzzy memory can recall, the theory is something like: "it destabilizes the bike so that the mass falls toward the direction that you are turning. It is a momentary thing, and can't be done for an extended period, else the bike would fall over". It also only works over certain speeds, isn't applicable if you are going too slow (sounds like Newton vs. Einstein!). If it is a physics fact, then the gyroscopic mathematics is way beyond what I want to worry about ... and not THAT simple (paralysis by analysis!).

What did someone say?: ::021::

 

[snakebitten]

OMG..

I quit some off road Forum after two days with this same topic, The guys where some rude A-holes.. ::002::

You saying we can't compete?

 

[GrahamD]

But isn't the physics of countersteering a little bit of a mystery? If my fuzzy memory can recall, the theory is something like: "it destabilizes the bike so that the mass falls toward the direction that you are turning. It is a momentary thing, and can't be done for an extended period, else the bike would fall over". It also only works over certain speeds, isn't applicable if you are going too slow (sounds like Newton vs. Einstein!). If it is a physics fact, then the gyroscopic mathematics is way beyond what I want to worry about ... and not THAT simple (paralysis by analysis!).

What did someone say?: ::021::

You don't have to do maths, just play with a gyroscope and see what happens at different rotation speeds. It is really interesting. No maths at all. ;D

 

[Salmon Sam]

All kinds of threads on this forum to satisfy or bore anyone.
Yeah, I am bored. If I am on this forum, it means that I ain't riding, damn it! ::26::

 

[creggur]

But isn't the physics of countersteering a little bit of a mystery? If my fuzzy memory can recall, the theory is something like: "it destabilizes the bike so that the mass falls toward the direction that you are turning. It is a momentary thing, and can't be done for an extended period, else the bike would fall over". It also only works over certain speeds, isn't applicable if you are going too slow (sounds like Newton vs. Einstein!). If it is a physics fact, then the gyroscopic mathematics is way beyond what I want to worry about ... and not THAT simple (paralysis by analysis!).

What did someone say?: ::021::

Then just keep it Sesame Street Simple: Push Right - Go Right. Push Left - Go Left...

Simple enough?

Doesn't change the FACT (not theory) that it works every time, AND is the ONLY way to effectively control a two-wheeled mode of transport...

 

[rem]

No it's not. Leaning is what counteracts some other forces as the bike is turning. You can actually ride straight down the road with the bike leaned way over.

As Graham suggested, a bit of time with some gyroscopes, or just a bicycle wheel spinning between your arms will help in understanding all this a lot.

Dallara


~

Point taken. I was shooting for something there, but can't remember now. As Creggur said, push right, go right ... etc. Seems to work. R. ::008::

 

[Ramseybella]

::017:: ::017:: ::017::It's Movie time!! ::015:: ::017:: ::017::
Counter Steering a motorcycle for learner Riders (Video 5)

 

[GrahamD]

That's what I was told 30 odd years ago. I practiced that all the way home after that ride and after about 1000km it was pretty much natural. The light grip also helps to keep your arms from transferring forces into the bike that it doesn't want. Most bikes want to be stable. It's usually the rider that confuses the bike with a bunch of positive feedback.

 

[snakebitten]

Just like holding a golf club. Act like it's a tube of toothpaste with the cap off.
Then try not to squeeze any out.

At first it takes deliberate thought and effort. But after it becomes natural, you get all kinds of benefits. You'll be amazed how much longer it takes to become fatigued. And how stable the bike is in less than perfect road or wind conditions.

Applies on and off road.

 

[GrahamD]

...and Fred's your plumber (that's Canuck for Bob's your Uncle).

That would be like "Bruce is your Butcher" cause apparently everyone in Oz is called Bruce. Ummm Never mind..

 

[MojoToot]

Different bikes have different geometry & weight & therefore, different handling characteristics.
Some bikes require much more handlebar input than the S10...

My guess is those that seem to negate the facts of countersteering have limited (or no) experience on heavy cruisers.

 

[MojoToot]

As I tried to point out earlier in this thread...cornering is a combination of factors, especially "weighting" & "handlebar input".

A rider that shifts body weight inside the turn, may require little or no handlebar input.

Those that ride "by the seat-o-their pants"...might not even be aware of the techniques they are performing.

Track/instruction type training adds focus to these details....

 

[GrahamD]

Some video's to explain some of the physics experiments going on beneath you.

Not suitable for short attention spans. No one has to admit they watch them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ty9QSiVC2g0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdAmEEAiJWo

"I can sock it and whack it and it won't go down" [2:20]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqHXFKJddfM

 

[creggur]

Watched all three and actually now have a better understanding of this (admittedly physics isn't my strong suit), but the first video which explained the outward torque on the wheel while it's spinning turned a light bulb on in my tiny brain.

Thanks, Graham!

 

[rlasater]

Counter steering changed my life. It's simple, if you turn by shifting your weight, you and the bike essentially are disconnected with differing centers of gravity. It takes effort and skill to balance a big bike around a curve with your weight. When CSing, you and the bike remain one thing. It takes no more effort than pushing the bar and you always feel balanced.

Also, if you hit a curve too fast, there is a limit to how far you can lean (turn) the bike by leaning off it and you might well straighten it out. A lot of people get hurt this way.

Once I learned CS on the big bike, it not only improved confidence and fun level, but really improved my skills on the dirt bike too. I can fly into a turn and "pop" the bike over with a little CS, slide into the turn with the brake and fly out underpower, all at the right angle!

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk

 

[Salmon Sam]

Countersteering is cool and love playing with it on asphalt twisties. The only precaution with "adventure" riding on beasts like the ST, is to remember that it doesn't work at slow speeds on forest service roads that have looser surfaces. There you DO turn the handle bars in the direction you want to go and/or put your weight on the outside foot peg and lean the bike into the turn under you.
If you don't consciously switch between these two modes of riding, you will find some gravel road turns a little "annoying" after coming off of harder surfaces. Adventure riding requires this more than what you might normally do on crotch rockets, cruisers, etc.

 

[Al Goodwin]

Geez LOUISE....Not ANOTHER countersteering thread....there's one on EVERY motorcycle related forum...Well, I'm not sure about the fat/slow bike forums since I don't frequent them. ::017::

Anyway....all it should take is ONE RIDE to find out that if you initiate a turn, and then transition out of that turn and into another...you ARE countersteering the bike..left for right...etc....

OK....I will admit you can, VERY SLOWLY, turn a bike using only weight...but, like I said, it's VERY SLOW.

I roadraced for 11 years, and all it would take is one ride to prove it to anyone just how it works.....

OK...My $.02 worth. ::017::