Yesterday was the first time I thought my bike was "fast" !

[~TABASCO~]

Nice write up in the original post. I am the example of why Yamaha sends it stock the way it is. As a newbie to off-road, I will need a tamer version while practicing my skills. At 45 years old, I can't learn like I used to by getting thrown to the ground all day. Although the stock version is tame compared to the "enhanced" versions, it still has plenty of nuts and guts for what many riders need. The ability to be able to modify the bike to meet the needs of the more highly skilled (i.e. crazy ) riders is icing on the cake. Again, you hit the nail on the head with your post.

::008:: I now think that Yamaha probably did the right thing by sending it out this 'stock' way... And now everyone knows they can grow into more power if they so desire.. ::26::

 

[avc8130]

I would really like to know if we can take out the 'optimizer' if we tell them we have the PCV... I wounder if it makes a bit of difference ?

Try it.

In fact, just disconnect the O2 and see what happens.

Did you try a zero map in the PCV to see what trims the AT wants?

I WANT to get to this magical point with my S10...but I am apprehensive of spending $2k and not having a clue what is REALLY happening with all of these gizmos. This is like car tuning from 10 years ago. We have re-written ECUs still using pgiggybacks. It is "laughable" by 2012 standards.

ac

 

[~TABASCO~]

Ive had many conversations with several customers, and there have been several points brought up.. My bike works so good, I don't really want to 'experiment' with several different set ups.. Most of the time I don't have extra time to mess with my own stuff.. Everyone has read about it 100 times.... bla-bla-bla.. but my thoughts are that this overall 'set up' is pretty bad ass...
If I have some extra time I would like to poke around to see if they tank into account the optimizer. Or what might be different if we just unplug it.. I'm not going to remove the factory 02 sensors.. If you want to call me up sometime will talk about a few ideas....

 

[avc8130]

Ive had many conversations with several customers, and there have been several points brought up.. My bike works so good, I don't really want to 'experiment' with several different set ups.. Most of the time I don't have extra time to mess with my own stuff.. Everyone has read about it 100 times.... bla-bla-bla.. but my thoughts are that this overall 'set up' is pretty bad ass...
If I have some extra time I would like to poke around to see if they tank into account the optimizer. Or what might be different if we just unplug it.. I'm not going to remove the factory 02 sensors.. If you want to call me up sometime will talk about a few ideas....

I hear ya.

The problem I run into is paying $1k for a header/exhaust setup, and then another $1k for what essentially amounts to 2 other items that are supposed to accomplish the same thing.

Have you looked into becoming an ECU Unleashed dealer? Maybe that would "unlock" some of the secrets.

ac

 

[~TABASCO~]

I hear ya.

The problem I run into is paying $1k for a header/exhaust setup, and then another $1k for what essentially amounts to 2 other items that are supposed to accomplish the same thing.

Have you looked into becoming an ECU Unleashed dealer? Maybe that would "unlock" some of the secrets.

ac

If you like you can think of it like this... This is my opinion and not necessarily "fact".....
--The PCV / AT controls fuel.. The amount / pule rate / AFR... (all fuel)...
--The flash eliminates restrictions and adds or messes with a little timing...

One or the other is a big difference over stock with the headers, muffler, Etc... That's why people like both, and then cant understand why they would need to add "more" (PCV or flash) to what they think is "powerful or fast"....

Its only when you have several Super Teneres next to each other that all have similar mods with flash, with out, both have PCV & AT.. when you have these bikes sitting next to each other and you ride them back, to back, to back do you feel the difference and what you get and don't have with these different set ups... I told many people I was not going to get the flash... Its was only after I road a bike with my same parts + the flash did I realize what the flash offered on top of the other parts (PCV&AT) that I decided to get the flash... When you ride them side by side, you will FEEL the difference... Either one is good, really good.... Both together is seriously bad ass... No BS, just my honest thoughts...

 

[avc8130]

If you like you can think of it like this... This is my opinion and not necessarily "fact".....
--The PCV / AT controls fuel.. The amount / pule rate / AFR... (all fuel)...
--The flash eliminates restrictions and adds or messes with a little timing...

One or the other is a big difference over stock with the headers, muffler, Etc... That's why people like both, and then cant understand why they would need to add "more" (PCV or flash) to what they think is "powerful or fast"....

Its only when you have several Super Teneres next to each other that all have similar mods with flash, with out, both have PCV & AT.. when you have these bikes sitting next to each other and you ride them back, to back, to back do you feel the difference and what you get and don't have with these different set ups... I told many people I was not going to get the flash... Its was only after I road a bike with my same parts + the flash did I realize what the flash offered on top of the other parts (PCV&AT) that I decided to get the flash... When you ride them side by side, you will FEEL the difference... Either one is good, really good.... Both together is seriously bad ass... No BS, just my honest thoughts...

Trust me, I BELIEVE you anecdotal information.

HOWEVER, the flash alone SHOULD be able to match the PCV. The flashers have full control of the fueling. The ONLY thing the PCV does is piggyback onto ANY ECU and add/subtract fuel based on YOUR inputs. Chances are you are getting the inputs from an AT. This means you have chosen a target AFR and then "tuned" the PCV with trim values to hit that AFR.

The EXACT SAME THING should have been done by the flasher. On a dyno they should have created an open loop fuel map the combined maximum power/torque with safe AFR.

IF the PCV+AT is actually making more HP, to the point you can actually FEEL it, the ECU Flash is WRONG. This is a BIG deal. Guys are paying $450 for what they assume to be the "proper" solution for their modded bikes, and they may not be getting it and have to shell out another $600 for a piggyback band aid.

ac

 

[~TABASCO~]

Trust me, I BELIEVE you anecdotal information.

HOWEVER, the flash alone SHOULD be able to match the PCV. The flashers have full control of the fueling. The ONLY thing the PCV does is piggyback onto ANY ECU and add/subtract fuel based on YOUR inputs. Chances are you are getting the inputs from an AT. This means you have chosen a target AFR and then "tuned" the PCV with trim values to hit that AFR.

The EXACT SAME THING should have been done by the flasher. On a dyno they should have created an open loop fuel map the combined maximum power/torque with safe AFR.

IF the PCV+AT is actually making more HP, to the point you can actually FEEL it, the ECU Flash is WRONG. This is a BIG deal. Guys are paying $450 for what they assume to be the "proper" solution for their modded bikes, and they may not be getting it and have to shell out another $600 for a piggyback band aid.

ac

I agree with you 100%... people "should" only need the flash for all there after market power needs... If it was set up 100% correctly no one should need a PCV-AT at all... IMOP, the flash is more of a de restriction'er and maybe some timing.. IMOP the flash is NOT 100% dialed in to the "best it can be"... no way... my personal thoughts are they have found the 'file' that takes out the restrictions in the factory ECM. They might also 'tweaked' a few other files.. I DONT think they spent hours upon hours on the DYNO with the Super Tenere developing each custom map for each part, and type of fuel you tell them.. That's probably 200 combo's... Again, I think its much more simple and they are making a killing... Because they wont show us dyno runs, Etc. Etc. Etc. we will probably never know what they 'really' doing inside the ECM. All I know is riding the bikes back to back, there are several places that the flash is lacking fuel or AFR 'fuel'......

Supposedly you can tell ECUnleashed just how you want the map set. I guess if someone DYNO'ed there bike, the dealer then could place the order to have your ECUnleashed map custom made.. Its 450 flash + dyno time + dyno time + extra days to dyno & get the flash from Italy + more dyno time to make sure the flash is what it is suppose to be after you get it back....... If the Dyno is not correct then you have more Dyno time...... So you are correct, with extra money and time the flash can (supposedly) be correct without the PCV & AT.....

In my case, I had all the other parts already, for the last 7 months or so.. After riding a customers bike with the same parts as I had, plus the flash I could tell a pretty big difference.. I then did a little experiment by backing out the PCV fuel.. IMOP, the flash and the PCV are a great marriage for this bike... ::002:: I also built this package up part by part.. I can tell anyone my thoughts on each part and what it did to change the bike over stock. I think Ive only had one customer that brought me his ST and we went from stock to the full enchilada with the flash. He totally freaked out when he came back from his test ride..