Will you take the vaccine

[WJBertrand]

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That number is way too low for the Civil War, most references say 600,000 t0 620,000 died in the line of duty. This would not seem to include civilians.

Regarding TC, he must have his head in the sand on this one. If media and silicon valley were hiding all the adverse stuff about the vaccine, then how did we all know about the two workers in the UK, and the one in Alaska? He's not informing anyone of anything new in his pointless diatribe. I watched both of the FDA expert panel reviews. They were on PBS for anyone to watch if they bothered to make the effort. It's thick technical stuff but it's all right there. To me those reviews sounded a lot like most medical and scientific conferences I've attended or presented at. I'm in the medical device field rather than drugs, but the FDA process is similar. I would be very happy if a device I helped to develop had a 95+% effectiveness and similar adverse affects rates that the data reveals for both of the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines. Devices and medicines are approved based on a risk benefit ratio, none are without risk, it's a matter of the ratio. TCs point (it seems) is that getting the vaccine is an example of social control, if that's was the goal why bother with the vaccine at all? The controls now in place are much more draconian. Last point, anyone who regards facebook or twitter as any kind of ultimate authority for accurate information is an idiot.

 

[gunslinger_006]

Found out today: No covid vaccines for children, or anyone under age 16.

My 15 month old will be unprotected for the foreseeable future.


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[AusTexS10]

That number is way too low for the Civil War, most references say 600,000 t0 620,000 died in the line of duty. This would not seem to include civilians.

I think you're right. The number in the chart, I believe, only represents Union troops (hence, "US") and does not include Confederate troops who reportedly suffered higher casualties. Some more recent demographic research suggests the total number may lie between 650K-850K (https://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/03/science/civil-war-toll-up-by-20-percent-in-new-estimate.html). So the civil war deaths are not a good comparison to coronavirus deaths, and I hope we can get our act together to keep those deaths from being comparable. By getting our act together, I mean doing everything we can in terms of masking, social-distancing, hand-washing and taking vaccine when available, and not disparaging those who do choose to adopt these practices. It's really not much to ask.

 

[thughes317]

As a point of clarification: This vaccine is not actually a "vaccine" in the traditional definition of the word:

Vaccine: A product that stimulates a person’s immune system to produce immunity to a specific disease, protecting the person from that disease. Vaccines are usually administered through needle injections, but can also be administered by mouth or sprayed into the nose.

Immunization Basics | CDC

Immunization: The Basics

www.cdc.gov

It does provide protection against the illness (the life-threatening symptoms) but not "sterilizing immunity" (the type of immunity, typically involving antibodies, that fully inhibits a disease-causing pathogen from establishing an infection).

What's the Update on Vaccines for COVID-19?

Researchers are using multiple methods to develop COVID-19 vaccines, including techniques based on mRNA, viral vectors, and protein subunits.

www.verywellhealth.com

So your chances of surviving an infection are greatly improved because the vaccine is more than 90% effective in blocking the symptoms of COVID-19, BUT, the FDA’s advisers stressed it is not yet clear whether it can stop the silent, symptom-less spread that accounts for roughly half of all cases.

US panel endorses widespread use of Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine

WASHINGTON (AP) — A U.S. government advisory panel endorsed widespread use of Pfizer’s coronavirus vaccine Thursday, putting the country just one step away from launching an epic vaccination campaign against the outbreak that has killed close to 300,000 Americans.

apnews.com

TL;DNR version: The vaccine stops you from getting symptoms but does not appear to prevent you from getting the disease and transmitting it to others asymptomatically......so ya gotta continue to wear mask, social distance, and stay locked down even after everybody gets vaccinated.

 

[MattR]

I think you're right. The number in the chart, I believe, only represents Union troops (hence, "US") and does not include Confederate troops who reportedly suffered higher casualties. Some more recent demographic research suggests the total number may lie between 650K-850K (https://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/03/science/civil-war-toll-up-by-20-percent-in-new-estimate.html). So the civil war deaths are not a good comparison to coronavirus deaths, and I hope we can get our act together to keep those deaths from being comparable. By getting our act together, I mean doing everything we can in terms of masking, social-distancing, hand-washing and taking vaccine when available, and not disparaging those who do choose to adopt these practices. It's really not much to ask.

Another point to consider is that civilians were included in the 600,000 as would be expected when battles were fought in towns and villages. As far as I know US cities were not bombed during WW2 (at all?) where as the Germans bombed all of the British industrial cities in an attempt to stop war production for several years. (We did the same to them)


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[richarddacat]

Found out today: No covid vaccines for children, or anyone under age 16.

My 15 month old will be unprotected for the foreseeable future.


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People under 40 have a better chance of overcoming serious illness with this virus so your kids will be fine.
Overall people that are healthy with strong immune systems, no underlying health conditions will survive. The elderly should be our main concern.
We have effective treatments and a vaccine being distributed for a virus with a worldwide 99.7%survival rate the last I read.

For perspective, the coronavirus death rate for those under the age of 19 is only about 1 in 33,000, but it’s 1 in 18 for those above age 70.

 

[richarddacat]

With all the hype of testing positive and daily totals on every station it’s become very misleading. We should be counting those that are hospitalized “specifically” for covid and rewards for positive cases should be stopped.

And there’s this;

The Grand County coroner is calling attention to the way the state health department is classifying some deaths. The coroner, Brenda Bock, says two of their five deaths related to COVID-19 were people who died of gunshot wounds. Bock says because they tested positive for COVID-19 within the past 30 days, they were classified as “deaths among cases.”

Grand County Coroner Raises Concern On Deaths Among COVID Cases

The Grand County coroner is calling attention to the way the state health department is classifying some deaths.

denver.cbslocal.com

 

[Sierra1]

TL;DNR version: The vaccine stops you from getting symptoms but does not appear to prevent you from getting the disease and transmitting it to others asymptomatically......so ya gotta continue to wear mask, social distance, and stay locked down even after everybody gets vaccinated.

Even if the vax did kill the bug, people have to continue with the precautions. Because, even if you've been vaxed, you can be a carrier; the virus isn't going to die on contact with you.

 

[WJBertrand]

As far as I know US cities were not bombed during WW2 (at all?) where as the Germans bombed all of the British industrial cities in an attempt to stop war production for several years. (We did the same to them)


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I dunno if Elwood beach California is a big enough settlement to be called a city (at the time) but it's just a few miles north of Santa Barbara and now part of Goleta.. A Japanese submarine bombed a pier that was there. There's restaurant there called the Timbers made out of the lumber from the destroyed pier. Don't think there were any casualties though.

Bombardment of Ellwood - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[AusTexS10]

I dunno if Elwood beach California is a big enough settlement to be called a city (at the time) but it's just a few miles north of Santa Barbara and now part of Goleta.. A Japanese submarine bombed a pier that was there. There's restaurant there called the Timbers made out of the lumber from the destroyed pier. Don't think there were any casualties though.

Bombardment of Ellwood - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Thanks for sharing that. That was an interesting read about some history I wasn't aware of. I laughed when I got down to the Aftermath section where the "Battle of Los Angeles" was described.

 

[gunslinger_006]

I dunno if Elwood beach California is a big enough settlement to be called a city (at the time) but it's just a few miles north of Santa Barbara and now part of Goleta.. A Japanese submarine bombed a pier that was there. There's restaurant there called the Timbers made out of the lumber from the destroyed pier. Don't think there were any casualties though.

Bombardment of Ellwood - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

That is fascinating. Had no idea that occurred.


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[thughes317]

Even if the vax did kill the bug, people have to continue with the precautions. Because, even if you've been vaxed, you can be a carrier; the virus isn't going to die on contact with you.

Understood.

So, bottom line, even when the entire population is injected with this vaccine, we will still have to wear our masks everywhere, hide in our houses and avoid contact with other humans all the while watching small businesses fail in the near term and our economy crash in the long term? Awesome!

Don't get me wrong, I am not anti-vaxx and I believe that this vaccine is a panacea, I'm just tired of this whole thing and am approaching that "Screw it, I'm going back to the way things were (the old normal), my health and everyone else's health be damned". Don't know how much longer I can live like this.

 

[thughes317]

Just wondering: How many people who were severely depressed/borderline suicidal during this pandemic had their spirits lifted with news of the vaccine rolling out and are soon to realize that life does not go back to normal even with the population fully inoculated? What will that do to their mental health. The fact that the vaccine does not prevent infection and eliminate communicability of the disease should be touted just as loudly as the news "We have a vaccine!". Full disclosure and all that......it really sounds like it should be referred to as a "symptom blocker", not a vaccine.

Apparently even the media does not realize this, what with all the talk of "Covid Passports" allowing people to go back to things like concerts and large gatherings, and news stories of employers possibly requiring the vaccination as a condition of employment.

/end rant (sorry, extra grumpy this evening)

 

[Sierra1]

. . . . So, bottom line, even when the entire population is injected with this vaccine, we will still have to wear our masks everywhere, hide in our houses and avoid contact with other humans all the while watching small businesses fail in the near term and our economy crash in the long term? . . . .

Nope. Once everybody gets vaxed, or at least the vast, vast majority, the threat will be minimized. But, right now. . . .

 

[richarddacat]

I heard the phrase “social conforming” the other day. Sounds about right and its time to make everyone essential again.

 

[Sierra1]

I don't think it has anything to do with being essential. More like being a pod person. . . . or maybe a sheeple.

 

[gunslinger_006]

Understood.

So, bottom line, even when the entire population is injected with this vaccine, we will still have to wear our masks everywhere, hide in our houses and avoid contact with other humans all the while watching small businesses fail in the near term and our economy crash in the long term? Awesome!

Don't get me wrong, I am not anti-vaxx and I believe that this vaccine is a panacea, I'm just tired of this whole thing and am approaching that "Screw it, I'm going back to the way things were (the old normal), my health and everyone else's health be damned". Don't know how much longer I can live like this.

Its not just you.

Once the vaccine is out masks are over. People are just not going to do it.


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[WJBertrand]

That is fascinating. Had no idea that occurred.


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Legend around here of course.


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[WJBertrand]

Even if the vax did kill the bug, people have to continue with the precautions. Because, even if you've been vaxed, you can be a carrier; the virus isn't going to die on contact with you.

Vaccines don’t kill anything, they’re not like an antibiotic or anything. They program your immune system to kill the virus.

I personally think this talk about masks forever is BS. If the vaccine stops the virus replicating (whatever the mechanism) it will die off. If the virus is still multiplying in a person that’s the definition of an infection. Also keep in mind there are several different vaccines coming, some of them using the established killed/attenuated whole virus technology. These will be later because they have figure out how to grow mass amounts of virus in a lab and then work out a kill/attenuation process that leaves the antigenic part of the virus intact, while making sure it cannot cause an infection. There’s always a small risk of this with that traditional approach. These mRNA vaccines can be synthesized in a lab. No need to grow the virus, that’s a prime reason they’ve appeared so quickly.


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[MattR]

I dunno if Elwood beach California is a big enough settlement to be called a city (at the time) but it's just a few miles north of Santa Barbara and now part of Goleta.. A Japanese submarine bombed a pier that was there. There's restaurant there called the Timbers made out of the lumber from the destroyed pier. Don't think there were any casualties though.

Bombardment of Ellwood - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I think it still counts


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