Will you take the vaccine

[thughes317]

Omicron has started its NZ sweep and our positive cases are around the 22000 per day mark.

NZ has 95% double vacced pop, yet the vaccine doesn't appear to have 'stopped' you getting C19 or 'slow' the spread as our Govt has been telling us since vacc roll out last year . The vacc may have done this for Delta but not Omicron, as like alot of whats happened around the world regardless if you are vacc'd or not Omicron isnt knocking the crap out of infected people. I do not know how unhealthy or immune comp people are fairing.

A snapshot of NZ + Omicron

Covid-19 update: 22,527 new community cases, 562 in hospital, five deaths

There have been 22,527 new community cases of Covid-19 reported today, slightly down on yesterday's numbers, the Ministry of Health says.

www.rnz.co.nz

Hang in there, you're only @ 2 months behind the rest of the world.

 

[Sierra1]

. . . . NZ has 95% double vacced pop, yet the vaccine doesn't appear to have 'stopped' you getting C19 or 'slow' the spread as our Govt has been telling us since vacc roll out last year . . . .

From personal experience, with three doses, the vaccine may not prevent Omicron infection. But . . . . it does/will lessen the severity, and likelihood of death. My wife and I had it for a week. Her niece who was completely unvaccinated, had it for just under a month.

 

[Scoop47501]

LOL... I knew before I posted it the article would get slammed regardless of content. Libs are soooo predictable.
The article and the citations seemed legit to me, but....it didn't come from CNN or the other 'truth' purveyors that so many rely on.

THE virus doesn't care what party you are in . I am a rabid conservative and believe in the vaccine. I have taken three Phizer shots so far. My wife has taken three Moderna shots and neither of us has had the first symptom of Covid. We know for a fact that we were exposed as friends came down with it the day after we spent hours together in confined spaces. They were anivaccine. Well they both got sick. They now have both been vaccinated.
I know this will not change your mind but wanted to clear up that not all look at the vaccine politically.

 

[Tombstone]

THE virus doesn't care what party you are in . I am a rabid conservative and believe in the vaccine. I have taken three Phizer shots so far. My wife has taken three Moderna shots and neither of us has had the first symptom of Covid. We know for a fact that we were exposed as friends came down with it the day after we spent hours together in confined spaces.

I'm genuinely happy for you and anyone else that has avoided the china virus. However as a non-vaxxed person I've told a similar story and the response is .....well about the same as the story I posted in #2369 - If it doesn't fit the accepted group narrative then it MUST be false.

Since January of 2019 I've logged a bit over 65,000 miles on the Tenere, going coast to coast and top to bottom a number of times and been in every CONUS state again...a number of times. I could check my blog and tell you for certain, but suffice it to say I've covered the country; and yet I've not caught the virus.
So.....if you apply the logic in some of the stories I read in this thread, that means one does not need the jab to be safe.
On the other hand....... again following the logic of some stories found in this thread, even if one gets vaxxed the person can still, as many have, contract the virus - and yet we can somehow eradicate this disease by getting vaxxed. Really??

That's like the leader of the country (who was fully vaxxed) to our north refusing to meet with citizens of his own country for fear that he might be exposed and catch the virus.....

I was as vehemently opposed to the vax when Trump was in office as I am now that Biden is in the White House. Not everyone who refuses the jab does it for political reasons, and not everyone believes everything they are told, no matter which side of the aisle it comes from.

 

[fac191]

It's a bit like saying i have smoked all my life but not got Cancer, so Cancer can not be real. But it is.

 

[Checkswrecks]

LOL... I knew before I posted it the article would get slammed regardless of content. Libs are soooo predictable.
The article and the citations seemed legit to me, but....it didn't come from CNN or the other 'truth' purveyors that so many rely on.

Same as WJB on hardly being a left winger. The article was just poor.

 

[Sierra1]

It does appear, in the U.S., that one political party seems to be more opposed to the vaccine than the other political party. What I've wondered is: if the opposite political party was in power, would the opposite party be more opposed to the vaccine?

I'm a concervative, an independant thinker, and a flaming "you're not going to tell me what to do" person. But, it never crossed my mind to not get the vaccine. (unless I decided that the cure was worse than the disease)

 

[pooh and xtine]

The nature of a pandemic is that it is not possible to prove that any of the measures we have taken have worked or not because there are no “control groups” where each of the measures was not taken to compare with. Consequently there is no absolute evidential proof that the vaccine, lockdowns, masks or social distancing have made any difference or not (or to what degree).

Clearly those vaccinated appear to have suffered less if they caught covid, but they’re not necessarily the same cohort of people who died in the first wave before the vaccine was developed. It may be that the virus would have affected the same people to the same extent, vaccine or not, i.e. it killed those vulnerable first and would have done so even if they had been vaccinated. We then vaccinated everybody who was less vulnerable (because they had survived the first wave), which appeared to indicate the efficacy of the virus, but this cohort may have been less susceptible to the virus in any case.

It could be argued that liberal western governments had no choice but to take the extremely virtuous measures we ended up with, but the enormous economic and human cost of this has left us very vulnerable to expansionist autocratic regimes which take much tougher (rational, objective) stance in their response to threats such as a virus.

 

[WJBertrand]

One thing I see in a lot of the arguments is the tendency to latch on to a single exception, i.e. a fully vaccinated person catches covid, therefore it is concluded that the vaccine is useless and doesn’t work on an extrapolated scale.

One can’t think about any treatment, vaccine or otherwise, in such simple absolute terms.

What we’re doing with the vaccine is improving the odds of avoiding severe illness and death. There was plenty of data during both the Delta and omicron surges that the large majority of folks that got sick enough to be hospitalized were unvaccinated. Of course it was not 100% of them but 75- >90% was commonly reported.

Seems smart to me to take measures to improve your odds of survival, whether it be a vaccine or wearing a helmet. Neither are 100% effective, there’s no such thing.

Oh, and an additional comment on that paper. If one enjoys reading about fictional speculation based on scientific facts, even legitimate references, Michael Crichton is the master.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Tombstone]

It is truly funny the reactions here. "The article is poor" The article is worthless" That can go both ways.
ie: All the opinions that the vax is valuable are poor and worthless.... See how easy that is?

 

[Mak10]

Not worth your time Ken. There is a bias here.

 

[Sierra1]

Everybody has biases. Everybody.

 

[regder]

LOL... I knew before I posted it the article would get slammed regardless of content. Libs are soooo predictable.
The article and the citations seemed legit to me, but....it didn't come from CNN or the other 'truth' purveyors that so many rely on.

You may want to look into The Epoch Times. It’s hard to find a more discreditable news source outside of maybe a tabloid at the supermarket claiming X celebrity married an alien.

Specific to this article, the MIT researcher that the article is based off of is a computer scientist, not a biologist or medical researcher. The Wikipedia article has more info on her outlandish claims.

 

[Mak10]

Meanwhile Tombstone has ridden his motorcycle from coast to coast at least twice. Is out enjoying what he enjoys most- and hasn’t wasted two years hiding in his house.
Who are the fools? TWO YEARS

 

[Sierra1]

For the most part, I agree. But it depends on what your definition of "effective" as to whether the vaccine is or isn't. I haven't been hiding in my house, 'cuz I consider it effective, and although my daily rides are nothing special . . . . they're daily rides. And Tombstone's trip was the best example of social distancing.

 

[regder]

The death rate between vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals is massive, https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/united-states-rates-of-covid-19-deaths-by-vaccination-status?country=~All+ages. The death rate between countries that have implemented safety protocols, versus those that haven’t is significant as well.

Personally, I have been travelling in Latin America for the past four months. Having three shots (thanks Guatemala for the booster!) has given me significantly more mental freedom to travel, not to mention the destination freedom that being vaccinated brings.

Edit: Mak10, looks like your post went MIA…

 

[Cantab]

I do like the way we are respecting our conversations to each other about this topic ATM , nice one TEAM S10

 

[Checkswrecks]

Here's an example of a subjective point of view, based in assertions without numbers:

The nature of a pandemic is that it is not possible to prove that any of the measures we have taken have worked or not because there are no “control groups” where each of the measures was not taken to compare with. Consequently there is no absolute evidential proof that the vaccine, lockdowns, masks or social distancing have made any difference or not (or to what degree)....

And here is the objective view, which draws on facts to address the subjective assertions:

The death rate between vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals is massive, https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/united-states-rates-of-covid-19-deaths-by-vaccination-status?country=~All+ages. The death rate between countries that have implemented safety protocols, versus those that haven’t is significant as well.
...

 

[Wallkeeper]

Probably from the need to watch for saber toothed tigers trying to jump out and eat us, humans are wired to see what alarms us and potential conspiracies.
We as a species keep challenging the following two lines of thought:

Occams Razor = "the simplest explanation is usually the best one."

Hanson's Razor = "never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity"

both are really sharp and will cut deep unless you respect them

 

[Sierra1]

I prefer Schick.