Traction Control

[Venture]

One of the features I'm looking forward to with the ST is the traction control. I just got done reading another crash story and in this particular one, the rider lost rear wheel traction during the start of a rainstorm after a dry spell. Apparently he started to lose traction and snapped the throttle closed which then had the effect of throwing him into a slide.

I read another report a while back of a guy who went into a wheelie by accident when his rear lost traction while he was accelerating pretty hard and when the rear finally caught it sent him head over heels.

Does anybody have some info on how well the ST traction control works? Any live experiences where it might have saved your bacon?

 

[rem]

I've never used it, but I couldn't agree more. I love the idea. Either rapid acceleration or deceleration are both recipes for a potential skid, and I've done both impulsively when I shouldn't have. From the sounds of it, it works. I think it will be a major safety feature, especially for an old boy like me who is a far cry from a professional rider. Traction on the bike is far better than traction in a hospital bed I figure. R

 

[Koinz]

I've never used it either, but then again my last bike was the first with linked ABS and I loved it. Stopped on a dime in a straight line.

 

[~TABASCO~]

I HAVE used it and it works (IMOP) better than advertised.. I can tell you that when I did my test ride there where dry asphalt and wet.. I thought THAT is the place to try the TC... It worked 100%... Ill have to go back and copy & past my "just after the ride" thoughts but I remember it working awesome... Ill go back today and find my RR and post it over here.....

****** Here was my ride report from last November******
My US ride report for the new Yamaha Super Tenere. I will try and give as much detail as I can for the short ride Yamaha let us test ride the bike today. Our ride today was about fifteen minutes long and about ten miles. We had a little city, with water on the asphalt, little Highway.

- The feel: The bike look big sitting in a parking lot. It looks tall and fat, im 6'. Throwing a leg over is not a problem and lifting up off the kick stand and having all the weight on both tires is EASY.. To me it feels like a MUCH smaller bike. The seat is awesome, the bars for me felt natural and in a really nice place for being 100% stock with no "fine tuning after market parts"... As I sat there waiting I got myself a bit more accustomed to where the Sport & Touring mode button and where the traction control button is.

- As we took off: One of the very first things I felt was the rear lifting sightly on acceleration out of the parking lot. I'm pretty sure this is from the drive shaft. I do own an FJR and only once a while feel the same thing. I think when the bike is loaded I prolly wouldn't feel this, or if I was more use to the bike. The bike shifted really nice. The brakes WORK VERY NICE. I tried the ABS several times, more on that in a minute.. Engine and clutch engagement where easy and smooth.

- The engine and power: This was probably one of the most impressive things to me was the motor and power. I know its a 1200 but its stout ! I road the first few miles on the 'Touring' mode.. We had an opportunity to "goose" it several times and the power was really strong. More so than I was anticipating.. Just as we where about to get on the High way I switched the mode to 'S' and WOW... what a difference ! This bike has some balls! Its fast! The throttle seams to be much more 'sharp' with 'S' and the power comes on sooner with a bang! I was smiling a laughing under my full face. I was also thinking that this was a big 'off road bike' and this is a ton of power for off road !! :dribble: Cant wait till May! In short, great power, MORE than I was thinking, big difference between 'T' touring & 'S' Sport ! With the 'S' turned on and the TC turned off you can blip the throttle and the front wheel WILL come off the ground. With a little practice this bike CAN pop wheelies all day ! ! I got the front wheel off, never touched the clutch.. Prolly in first gear. Another thing to me is there seams to be a over drive 6th gear. All the gears feel like like they should but 6th. It feels very much like an OD gear and the RPM' come down along with it. EDIT: Just wanted to point out again, that 1-5 feels like a normal transmission, when you go to 6th its much taller and for 'high-way' use.. prolly gives you much better high-way MPG to getting to the good off road !!

- Traction control: When I saw the water flowing across the wet asphalt I thought, this is going to great to test this bike on this wet.. I had the TC OFF... To set this up, we where at a light turning Left, when we rolled though the light to turn Left the whole intersection had water on it. After we made the Left there was water for another 50 feet or so. As I rolled though the light in first gear I switched to second and hammered the throttle and the tire and RPM's popped right up and started spinning like a mad fool until close to red line and I clicked to third. At this time there is another stop sign to take the next Left. I pushed the TC button to turn it on. I did the same thing with the tire still wet and hammered it.. Nothing, you could feel that you where "flooring it" but the engine was ignoring "the rider" in put and only delivering what it could take not to spin.. In about five seconds I got on it, out of it and hammered it again to try and make it break loose and It would not..... That system is AWESOME and works 100%. As I just said above, with the TC turned off you can pop wheelies on dry or maybe in the dirt, with the TC turned on you CANT..... I tried the same act with it on and off.

-ABS brakes: Just about every light I got on the binders HARD. Being safe, I late braked everywhere I could. There where four or five spots (dry ground) going about 10Mph I pushed on the rear brake hard and the ABS was activated and I felt the tire chirping as the ABS was being used. All the other times the brakes are awesome! Worked flawlessly, I might even go so far that they work better than the FJR brakes. They are strong. ( Don't forget, you can turn off the linked brakes, tap rear brake first, you can have the ABS on, or turn the ABS OFF, this braking system is very unique and works great, you really have all options at your disposal)

- The ride: This is going to sound nuts, and this is a hot topic for people that have not ridden the bike but here goes.. The bike feels like a little 400-500-600 cc motorcycle when you ride it.. Its VERY nimble. It rides as if its truly about 400Lbs or less.. Its a trick on your bike handling senses! The bike is just that good. You can 'flick' this bike around like a little scooter. You have to watch yourself, you can dive into a corner and start getting really aggressive very fast on this bike. Its NOT hard to do, its just asking for you to work it in the turns. It falls in really progressive with the stock tires and the power of the engine is smooth and powerful, and pulls you right out with no effort... This on the road is just going to be a DREAM and I just CANT WAIT to get it off road ! I also stood up for about 1/2 mile to get the feel.. That is nice, if you where going across Africa on the pegs I would need to raise the bars about 1".. Other than that the shifter, brake pedal, hand controls felt natural and in the correct place standing up.

-Over all: After getting to ride it today albita short ride, the systems WORK.. And IMOP they work WELL. Yamaha has pulled the seaming impossible off with this bike. Great engine, great brakes, ABS on, ABS off, linked, not linked (WHAT MORE CAN ANYONE ASK FOR ) Great geometry, AWESOME stock seat, great bar feel, good suspension so far on our short ride. And all for $13,900.... IMOP this is a HOME RUN motorcycle ! They did the work, and it SHOWS !
Awesome bike! Cant wait till May ! ! :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo: :dribble:

 

[Swagger]

I'm not used to TC so I'm not sure what I'm dealing with .... the bike certainly hangs on well on loose material. On a cinder trail that I rode a couple of months back I noticed that the Tenere dealt with the terrain in an entirely different way than my dirt bikes. Now I'm not pushing the Tenere too hard at the moment as it's too new and precious. It doesn't seem to be inclined to drift when the TC is active. With the TC turned off it's a different matter ... arse end all over the place .... I'm still a bit precious about the bike as it's heavier than anything else that I've ever thrown around the scenery and have therefore not pushed it too hard .... yet. That's gonna change.

 

[3putt]

I like it on my Multi, and looking forward to having it plus the ABS on the Super Tenere.

A few months ago, I read where one of the old experienced riders on the Tiger 1050 forum stepped out to pass a slower motorist in the rain (or had just quit raining) and the rear spun out and put him down on the ground so fast he did not even have time to do anything. I was thinking then, TC would have been very nice to have, would have saved his bike and him from injury.

 

[Dirt_Dad]

My wife had a significant crash 3 weeks ago as a result of lost traction. Totaled her Wee Strom. I can't say for certain traction control would have helped in her situation, but it might have made a difference. I think we were still in the hospital when she said, "I want your Tenere when it get's here". And she was serious. ??? I've been talking up the traction and abs too much I guess.

Traction control played a big role in deciding what to get for her next ride. For the last 10 days I've been working on breaking in her new Can-Am Spyder. Traction control, stability control and ABS...this thing has it all. I've been able to get all three systems to kick in and I have to say they work very well on the Spyder. If the S10 works just as well it's a major advancement in bike control.

 

[fredz43]

Exciting ride report, Tabasco, thanks for reposting it. I think there is a mistake about turning the ABS on and off. AFAIK, you can't turn it off whilst riding. It can be done with some trickery, putting it on the centerstand and running it in second gear, or you can add a switch to manually disable it, but otherwise you can't turn it off. As I understand it, tapping the rear brake first only unlinks the linked function, but does not affect the ABS.

 

[~TABASCO~]

Exciting ride report, Tabasco, thanks for reposting it. I think there is a mistake about turning the ABS on and off. AFAIK, you can't turn it off whilst riding. It can be done with some trickery, putting it on the centerstand and running it in second gear, or you can add a switch to manually disable it, but otherwise you can't turn it off. As I understand it, tapping the rear brake first only unlinks the linked function, but does not affect the ABS.

Your 100% correct. Last November everyone was harping on ABS and you can't turn it off. I was just saying again that it could be turned off. This RR was in response to post before and after my report, I just copy & pasted from last Nov. I should have gone back and myself more clear. But what you posted is correct and I think we all know that info now .
I don't think I'm messing with my brake system at all. Works awesome, and the ABS has saved my butt twice on the FJR !

 

[colorider]

****** Here was my ride report from last November******

I missed this report back when and glad you reposted it now. GREAT review!!!!

Thanks!!!

 

[Jim]

I HAVE used it and it works (IMOP) better than advertised.. I can tell you that when I did my test ride there where dry asphalt and wet.. I thought THAT is the place to try the TC... It worked 100%... Ill have to go back and copy & past my "just after the ride" thoughts but I remember it working awesome... Ill go back today and find my RR and post it over here.....

****** Here was my ride report from last November******
My US ride report for the new Yamaha Super Tenere. I will try and give as much detail as I can for the short ride Yamaha let us test ride the bike today. Our ride today was about fifteen minutes long and about ten miles. We had a little city, with water on the asphalt, little Highway.

- The feel: The bike look big sitting in a parking lot. It looks tall and fat, im 6'. Throwing a leg over is not a problem and lifting up off the kick stand and having all the weight on both tires is EASY.. To me it feels like a MUCH smaller bike. The seat is awesome, the bars for me felt natural and in a really nice place for being 100% stock with no "fine tuning after market parts"... As I sat there waiting I got myself a bit more accustomed to where the Sport & Touring mode button and where the traction control button is.

- As we took off: One of the very first things I felt was the rear lifting sightly on acceleration out of the parking lot. I'm pretty sure this is from the drive shaft. I do own an FJR and only once a while feel the same thing. I think when the bike is loaded I prolly wouldn't feel this, or if I was more use to the bike. The bike shifted really nice. The brakes WORK VERY NICE. I tried the ABS several times, more on that in a minute.. Engine and clutch engagement where easy and smooth.

- The engine and power: This was probably one of the most impressive things to me was the motor and power. I know its a 1200 but its stout ! I road the first few miles on the 'Touring' mode.. We had an opportunity to "goose" it several times and the power was really strong. More so than I was anticipating.. Just as we where about to get on the High way I switched the mode to 'S' and WOW... what a difference ! This bike has some balls! Its fast! The throttle seams to be much more 'sharp' with 'S' and the power comes on sooner with a bang! I was smiling a laughing under my full face. I was also thinking that this was a big 'off road bike' and this is a ton of power for off road !! :dribble: Cant wait till May! In short, great power, MORE than I was thinking, big difference between 'T' touring & 'S' Sport ! With the 'S' turned on and the TC turned off you can blip the throttle and the front wheel WILL come off the ground. With a little practice this bike CAN pop wheelies all day ! ! I got the front wheel off, never touched the clutch.. Prolly in first gear. Another thing to me is there seams to be a over drive 6th gear. All the gears feel like like they should but 6th. It feels very much like an OD gear and the RPM' come down along with it. EDIT: Just wanted to point out again, that 1-5 feels like a normal transmission, when you go to 6th its much taller and for 'high-way' use.. prolly gives you much better high-way MPG to getting to the good off road !!

- Traction control: When I saw the water flowing across the wet asphalt I thought, this is going to great to test this bike on this wet.. I had the TC OFF... To set this up, we where at a light turning Left, when we rolled though the light to turn Left the whole intersection had water on it. After we made the Left there was water for another 50 feet or so. As I rolled though the light in first gear I switched to second and hammered the throttle and the tire and RPM's popped right up and started spinning like a mad fool until close to red line and I clicked to third. At this time there is another stop sign to take the next Left. I pushed the TC button to turn it on. I did the same thing with the tire still wet and hammered it.. Nothing, you could feel that you where "flooring it" but the engine was ignoring "the rider" in put and only delivering what it could take not to spin.. In about five seconds I got on it, out of it and hammered it again to try and make it break loose and It would not..... That system is AWESOME and works 100%. As I just said above, with the TC turned off you can pop wheelies on dry or maybe in the dirt, with the TC turned on you CANT..... I tried the same act with it on and off.

-ABS brakes: Just about every light I got on the binders HARD. Being safe, I late braked everywhere I could. There where four or five spots (dry ground) going about 10Mph I pushed on the rear brake hard and the ABS was activated and I felt the tire chirping as the ABS was being used. All the other times the brakes are awesome! Worked flawlessly, I might even go so far that they work better than the FJR brakes. They are strong. ( Don't forget, you can turn off the linked brakes, tap rear brake first, you can have the ABS on, or turn the ABS OFF, this braking system is very unique and works great, you really have all options at your disposal)

- The ride: This is going to sound nuts, and this is a hot topic for people that have not ridden the bike but here goes.. The bike feels like a little 400-500-600 cc motorcycle when you ride it.. Its VERY nimble. It rides as if its truly about 400Lbs or less.. Its a trick on your bike handling senses! The bike is just that good. You can 'flick' this bike around like a little scooter. You have to watch yourself, you can dive into a corner and start getting really aggressive very fast on this bike. Its NOT hard to do, its just asking for you to work it in the turns. It falls in really progressive with the stock tires and the power of the engine is smooth and powerful, and pulls you right out with no effort... This on the road is just going to be a DREAM and I just CANT WAIT to get it off road ! I also stood up for about 1/2 mile to get the feel.. That is nice, if you where going across Africa on the pegs I would need to raise the bars about 1".. Other than that the shifter, brake pedal, hand controls felt natural and in the correct place standing up.

-Over all: After getting to ride it today albita short ride, the systems WORK.. And IMOP they work WELL. Yamaha has pulled the seaming impossible off with this bike. Great engine, great brakes, ABS on, ABS off, linked, not linked (WHAT MORE CAN ANYONE ASK FOR ) Great geometry, AWESOME stock seat, great bar feel, good suspension so far on our short ride. And all for $13,900.... IMOP this is a HOME RUN motorcycle ! They did the work, and it SHOWS !
Awesome bike! Cant wait till May ! ! :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo: :dribble:

Swore up and down to myself, wouldn't post anymore under the influence of beer but, hot damn! I'm smarter than what I give myself credit for.

 

[Mike Sisson]

Tobasco....didn't see the original post. Great eval. Dayum....I cannot wait for this bike!!!

 

[~TABASCO~]

Tobasco....didn't see the original post. Great eval. Dayum....I cannot wait for this bike!!!

Its a great bike ! Its off topic of TC, but here are a few photos of the bike I road a few days after these pictures where taken at the dealer..........

 

[MotorcopBBQ]

I am very much looking forward to these features on this motor. Both TC and ABS. Great posting Tabasco

 

[markjenn]

I just got done reading another crash story and in this particular one, the rider lost rear wheel traction during the start of a rainstorm after a dry spell. Apparently he started to lose traction and snapped the throttle closed which then had the effect of throwing him into a slide.

I read another report a while back of a guy who went into a wheelie by accident when his rear lost traction while he was accelerating pretty hard and when the rear finally caught it sent him head over heels.

Does anybody have some info on how well the ST traction control works? Any live experiences where it might have saved your bacon?

I doubt the S10's TC would have made any difference in the first accident scenario. If engine braking causes a loss of reaqr wheel traction, it would happen the same on the S10 as the TC will not add throttle if closing the throttle causes the loss of traction. For the second scenario, TC might have prevented the initial wheel spin up, but the S10 has no wheelie control, so if you "hook up" suddenly, you an still loop the bike. That being said, the S10 is a heavy bike with modest power and a very flat torque curve, so I doubt sudden inadvertent wheelies are likely to be much of an issue.

By all reports, the S10's TC is a very good system at preventing one (and only one) loss of traction accident scenario - losing the rear while applying too much power for available traction, particularly on corner exit. I wouldn't expect it to do anything more.

- Mark

 

[ptfjjj]

Traction on the bike is far better than traction in a hospital bed I figure. R

I almost missed this comment the first time through. You have a knack for saying a lot with only a few words.

 

[Turk]

TC seems to work well but last weekend I slide and I still don't know why.
we did a 2 day 1000 miles trip last weekend, on second day it was pretty hot and we saw a restaurant that had water fountains for cars and i wanted to go under those water fountains after first one i open the throttle gently and rear tire started slide, it was a split second slide but enough to put me down. Ground had slight slope and constant water keep the ground full of moss I dont think TC had any chance

 

[markjenn]

TC seems to work well but last weekend I slide and I still don't know why.

Which mode were you in? Any estimate of your speed? Dunno about the S10, but most TC systems have a low-speed cutoff; if you're below this speed the TC doesn't work. I think this is because the wheel speed data is unreliable below a certain threshold; the data is too "grainy" to reliably detect wheel spin.

- Mark

 

[~TABASCO~]

Which mode were you in? Any estimate of your speed? Dunno about the S10, but most TC systems have a low-speed cutoff; if you're below this speed the TC doesn't work. I think this is because the wheel speed data is unreliable below a certain threshold; the data is too "grainy" to reliably detect wheel spin.

- Mark

Just wondering if you know this for a fact on the ST... It uses the magnet type sensor that is more accurate than the "metal punch card" type...... I dont know the answer... Just wondering if you where guessing or you "know"...... I would like to know if it turns 'off' bellow a certain speed... Thanks

 

[~TABASCO~]

i never desired any traction control or ABS or linked braking or any of those kind of things. I'm just used to doing my own throttle control and braking as I've done for 40 yrs on a motorcycle. This is probably my biggest reservation about buying this bike. I was thankful I could buy the goldwing without ABS. We'll see. All I have experience to compare is my 1997 Ford F350 and that ABS has nearly killed me many a time so it is now disconnect, thank the Lord. The wife has a 2008 Jeep and it has traction control. Sometimes I go round a corner and that stupid thing thinks I'm sliding. Come on, this thing is what 4000lbs and 150hp ? Couldn't lose traction on ice without major driving driving skills missing. OH well I Don't mean to complain. WE'll see how it works in a couple months.

I'm my humble, not asked for, $.02 opinion........ ABS in a Ford pick up.. (no disrespect intended, that's a nice truck) verses ABS in a CLS 550 AMG Mercedes is NOT the same.. Not that you said otherwise... ABS in most Fords is not worth the 'type' on the build sheet.... about dang worthless... As you stated.....
The traction control on a JEEP is in about the same category of sophistication... Its about only good for, to tell a new customer and sell a damn car.... And real traction control in a car is going to be in a Mercedes, Ferrari, Porsche, Etc.... Sophisticated engine software dynamics and all types of tricks in the transmission and semi-auto clutches.... and the use of brakes in some cases with TC.

All this being said, I know there are bikes that have ABS and traction control that you could assimilate too the Ford (abs) or the JEEP (TC)... Its there, you bought it, it came with it,............... but its just about CRAP... and could be negative for a certain rider in certain circumstances....
I think the Yamaha is toward the other end of the scale in function with these two items... They work, they work well, and many-many customers have spoke about these two items 500K times in the last 1.5 years......

I can say this, I have a few bikes... most with out ABS.. My Yamaha FJR does have it and it has saved my ASS twice in my life... I should say, truly has saved my life. I might have made a bad entrance to a corner, I might have been going a bit to fast in a situation..... WHO HASNT on a bike...... IMOP, ABS and traction control are a good thing... Ive ridden the ST and its a great bike... looking forward to a 100K miles with it.................