scott123007
Well-Known Member
Crap, Dallara, you sure know how to shut a thread down 
Mzee
Active Member
Dallara has said it all. I am not a technical and mechanical person, but I know that kerosene damages certain rubber types. That is enough reason to keep away from it.
RIVA
Well-Known Member
Quote from Dallara
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"If you and Ridefast99 want to do "kerosene flushes" to everything you own that's fine by me"
Thank you Dallara. You may have been a bit long winded about getting to my point of view but this is exactly the point I wished to make and in my previous posts you will see that I did not stand on the high ground and shout "Yea" or "Nay" to the process of flushing the final drive. To each his own . As you are entitled to your opinion so is everyone else on this forum but that does not necessarily mean that the majority are right or wrong. ::015:: ::021:: Everything is not always Black or White. Look at a rainbow
"
"If you and Ridefast99 want to do "kerosene flushes" to everything you own that's fine by me"
Thank you Dallara. You may have been a bit long winded about getting to my point of view but this is exactly the point I wished to make and in my previous posts you will see that I did not stand on the high ground and shout "Yea" or "Nay" to the process of flushing the final drive. To each his own . As you are entitled to your opinion so is everyone else on this forum but that does not necessarily mean that the majority are right or wrong. ::015:: ::021::
Everything is not always Black or White. Look at a rainbow
sierraoffroad
no matter where you go: there you are!
nice oil thread.
I would say if anyone is concerned buying a 1L bottle of the correct stuff will cost very little, you could immeidately drop the oil and replace, go for a short run and do it again, that should flush most the crap out (assuming there is any) then do it again after another 100 miles to be sure - and still have enough oil left for another two routine changes.
I'm choose the "not worry" route.
First, it's a Yamaha.
Second, it's THEIR problem for the first 5 years!
They really have Big Cajones warrantying mine for unlimited mileage and that long.
They seem confident though.
First, it's a Yamaha.
Second, it's THEIR problem for the first 5 years!
They really have Big Cajones warrantying mine for unlimited mileage and that long.
They seem confident though.
hANNAbONE
...Patiently Waited...
Founding Member
2011 Site Supporter
2012 Site Supporter
2013 Site Supporter
Hec..just put a Dimple magnetic plug on the rear drive and save your seals.
RIVA said:
That's all well and good... Only problem is that all too often things are exactly "Black and White" when it comes to how a manufacturer handles a warranty claim - i.e. regular changes with the proper lubricant, White, we'll fix your busted/leaking final drive for free. Weird "kerosene flushes" of a perfectly good final drive, Black, we will deny your warranty claim and will not pay for anything. No "rainbow" from Yamaha. Hence it is still rather dubious for anyone to be recommended such things to others on the forum as a practice the will enhance longevity.
In other words, if Ridefast99 wants to take chances with his own warranty with Yamaha that's all well and good, but implying on a forum that a practice like a "kerosene flush" is all well and good for the final drive, and safe warranty-wise with Yamaha, is not. Owners that perhaps don't know about such things might try it and if they have a problem what do they do? Tell the Yamaha rep "Well, I did a kerosene flush, just like I read about on the Super Tenere Forum..."?
hANNAbONE said:
Don't know about your Super Tenere, Hannabone... But my S-10 came with a magnetic-tipped drain plug on the final drive.
Dallara
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As did mine. I think momma-yamaha knows how to build a solid FD, and that little attention to detail emphasizes the fact. Only magnetic plugs I added were the two oil drain plugsDallara said:
RIVA
Well-Known Member
Quote from Dallara
"
That's all well and good... Only problem is that all too often things are exactly "Black and White" when it comes to how a manufacturer handles a warranty claim - i.e. regular changes with the proper lubricant, White, we'll fix your busted/leaking final drive for free. Weird "kerosene flushes" of a perfectly good final drive, Black, we will deny your warranty claim and will not pay for anything. No "rainbow" from Yamaha. Hence it is still rather dubious for anyone to be recommended such things to others on the forum as a practice the will enhance longevity."
::026::
But will the kerosene flush really matter to a warranty claim when by most forum member s admission , they are not using Yamaha Lube. Is it not as dubious to recommend an alternative oil filter, or lube oil or reusable air filter, or for that matter any alternative non oem part? Not to mention the ECU reflash. I think that even the clutch mod negates the warranty.
"
That's all well and good... Only problem is that all too often things are exactly "Black and White" when it comes to how a manufacturer handles a warranty claim - i.e. regular changes with the proper lubricant, White, we'll fix your busted/leaking final drive for free. Weird "kerosene flushes" of a perfectly good final drive, Black, we will deny your warranty claim and will not pay for anything. No "rainbow" from Yamaha. Hence it is still rather dubious for anyone to be recommended such things to others on the forum as a practice the will enhance longevity."
::026::
But will the kerosene flush really matter to a warranty claim when by most forum member s admission , they are not using Yamaha Lube. Is it not as dubious to recommend an alternative oil filter, or lube oil or reusable air filter, or for that matter any alternative non oem part? Not to mention the ECU reflash. I think that even the clutch mod negates the warranty.
RIVA said:
I don't know about in Cloyne Co. Cork Eire, but here in the Good Ol' USA you don't have to use Yamalube. Any lubricant that conforms to the lubrication specification is all that's required, and that's the law.
On top of all that - regarding your reference to air filters and ECU re-flashes - here in the USA we have a little thing called the Magnuson-Moss Act, which basically says that you can use any aftermarket product you wish and it's up to the manufacturer to *PROVE* that modification caused any failure they might want to deny a warranty claim for. In other words, let's say a guy installs an aftermarket air filter, and then he has a final drive failure. No way the manufacturer can deny the warranty claim by saying the installation of a different air filter caused the final drive failure. Ditto when it comes to oils different from Yamalube. Let's say you run Mobil 1 in your Super Tenere engine, and it suddenly suffers a crank bearing failure. Two things keep a manufacturer from denying the warranty claim by saying it wasn't Yamalube... 1.) Yamaha states quite clearly in their various manuals that any oil that meets or exceeds the following specs:
API service SG type or higher, JASO standard MA
and of the following viscosities:
SAE 10W-30, 10W-40, 10W-50, 15W-50, 20W-40, 20W-50
Lots of oils meet or exceed those specs, and let's not forget that Yamaha does not *make* Yamalube, but only has it produced by others (and who that is differs from country to country, BTW) and labeled as "Yamalube". When I was a Honda dealer for years Kendall made their oils, but later they switched to Ashland (Valvoline) as their US supplier.
2.) The Magnuson-Moss Act states quite clearly that Yamaha would have to prove that using a different brand oil somehow caused the failure even though that same oil met or exceeded their specifications.
Not gonna' happen.
Much the same with an ECU re-flash... As long as Yamaha continues to offer and sell devices like DynoJet Powercommanders, etc. on their own accessory web site, as well as supporting their own warranty with Diapason re-flashes in Italy, it would be hard for them to deny a warranty claim for an ECU re-flash unless they could directly show that as being the cause for the failure. it's also rather difficult to deny a warranty claim for someone running the CJM since the bike is already equipped with that exact switch and programming. It operates whenever you have the clutch pulled in. Under Magnuson-Moss it would hard for Yamaha to deny a warranty claim for someone essentially riding around with what amounts to a shorted out clutch switch.
So now lets get specific about the final drive...
Yamaha states quite clearly, in both the owners and service manual, that any lubricant going into the final drive housing should meet or exceed the following specs:
SAE 80 API GL-4 Hypoid gear oil
Doesn't say a yocto-whit about kerosene there, nor can you possible argue that kerosene in any way, shape, or form meets or exceeds those lubrication specifications. Kerosene's lubricity, viscosity, and other properties are well known and easily measured, and there's simply no way to argue that meet or exceed the specifications of SAE 80 API GL-4 hypoid gear oils.
We can argue this until the Earth reverses its rotation... It doesn't change the fact that:
1.) Doing a "kerosene flush" to a perfectly good, literally new final drive is a daft idea with no known scientific evidence of doing anything beneficial to the system.
2.) Posting that folks should do such a "kerosene flush" and then stating emphatically, as if it were an undisputed fact, that it "...cleans out the final drive perfectly and will add years to its life..." is not a good thing to do as some who don't know better may do so, therefore possibly damaging their final drive seals and bearings, and worst of all possibly jeopardizing their ability to defend themselves in any warranty claim.
3.) Anybody can do such a "kerosene flush" if they wish, but it may very damage bearings and seals of what is a well proven, emphatically reliable, dependable final drive if it is properly serviced and treated with the proper lubricants. You can't very well go wrong with using the proper lubes that meet or exceed Yamaha's specs, but you take a chance using weird internet myth treatments like kerosene...
So how about it, folks... A show of hands please... Who here believes doing a "kerosene flush" to their final drive is a *good* thing, and that it "cleans out the final drive perfectly and will add years to its life"? ::017::
Dallara
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OMG we need to close this thread, we are sounding like a bunch of drama queens lol....
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RIVA
Well-Known Member
You are right Dallara. You do not know squat about Cloyne Co. Cork Éire. It would appear that the world outside The Good Old U S of A does not exist. What a pity.and again I will finish my contribution to this thread with the quotation I began with. "Do as I say and not as I do." ::021:: ::021::
RIVA said:
The original poster - Ridefast99 - is in the "Good Old U S of A"... Look for yourself, Riva. Pretty easy to figure out if you look at all 8 of his posts.
At least I admit I don't know a thing about "Cloyne Co. Cork Eire". There is a world outside of there, too... And Yamaha's own owners and service manuals prove it. Their lubrication and maintenance recommendations, etc. are the same the world over. Look for yourself. I did (I have copies of USA and European owners and service manuals right here, along with parts catalogs, too). None of them say one nano-bit about kerosene being used to flush a final drive, period.
Honestly, I could care less what riders in "Cloyne Co. Cork Eire" do to their bikes, particularly as you don't seem to... But I do care about a poster in the USA recommending kerosene final drive flushes to riders here in the USA. Wouldn't want someone I know, or might meet riding around here in the USA one day, to have fragged their Super Tenere final drive because they took such a daft recommendation to heart.
Nice job of tap dancing (or is it "river dancing" in Eire?) away from the original discussion, though - i.e. whether or not it is a good practice for anyone, anywhere, to claim - and state as fact - that flushing a literally new (less than 2,000 miles) final drive out with kerosene "will add years to its life". It's not... And so far you haven't presented so much as foam bubble on a pint of Guiness worth of proof that it is. ::025::
Dallara
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::009:: Where is a moderator when you need one? This thread should have been shut down the minute markjenn made the OCD comment. If I understand right OCD is a human deffect, not a motorcycle deffect. AS a forum member I am proud to say we are known for not having theads turn out like this. Andy -WV
I think the OP should have expected no less. About the same as if he'd suggested putting a little water in the engine oil to cool the engine and add years to its life. It just isn't so.
R
ridefast99
Guest
WOW...Dallara your wrapped way to tight....I have been flushing new bikes with 2 to 4k miles drives out for years....and put hundreds of thousands of miles on many different BMW s over the years....The first 3 to 4k miles the splines mesh in and in that period they leave metal residue.....ARE YOU KIDDING ME !!!!!! IF YOU GUYS THINK THIS IS A BAD IDEA THEN DONT DO IT ....BUT ITS NOT........ I HAVE BEEN WORKING ON ALL TYPES OF MOTORCYCLES FOR OVER 40 YEARS ...SO I AM A VOICE OF REASON.....THIS SITE IS LIKE EVERY OTHER ONE OUT THERE .......WITH ALL THE WANNA BE WRENCHES....... take you stuff to the dealer and get screwed.....ill do everybody a favor and stop posting since you guys know everything already.....ridefast99 >
ridefast99 said:WOW...Dallara your wrapped way to tight....I have been flushing new bikes with 2 to 4k miles drives out for years....and put hundreds of thousands of miles on many different BMW s over the years....The first 3 to 4k miles the splines mesh in and in that period they leave metal residue.....ARE YOU KIDDING ME !!!!!! IF YOU GUYS THINK THIS IS A BAD IDEA THEN DONT DO IT ....BUT ITS NOT........ I HAVE BEEN WORKING ON ALL TYPES OF MOTORCYCLES FOR OVER 40 YEARS ...SO I AM A VOICE OF REASON.....THIS SITE IS LIKE EVERY OTHER ONE OUT THERE .......WITH ALL THE WANNA BE WRENCHES....... take you stuff to the dealer and get screwed.....ill do everybody a favor and stop posting since you guys know everything already.....ridefast99 >
Just for the record, Ridefast99...
I'll be more than happy to compare motorcycle resumes... professional mechanic ones... and engineering ones... and race ones... and time doing so, etc. with you. Just ask.
You can say I'm "wrapped way too tight", but I'm not the one typing in nearly ALL CAPS... You can say you're a "VOICE OF REASON", but yet you can't produce even a single piece of documented scientific or engineering evidence that your "kerosene flush" increases the longevity of anything, much less a single manufacturing source that recommends it for their products. You presented your premise as a fact - i.e. that flushing one's final drive with kerosene "will add years to its life", yet you have no proof of that. Seems to me the only one you're kidding is yourself, and the only reason I ever posted in this thread was to perhaps prevent people who might not know any better from potentially damaging their motorcycle, and maybe even running into warranty issues.
Somehow I doubt very seriously you know better how to care for a driveline better than the folks who designed, engineered, and built it. Ridin' a few BMW's over the years and wrenchin' on 'em in your garage, "rinseing" <sic> everything in kerosene, is not the kind of proof that carries much weight in a fight over a warranty claim.
What's next? Dumping the EFI for a Fisher carburetor with a Spiralmax/Turbonator like you run on your '69 Buick?
Dallara
p.s. - BTW, the word is rinsing, not "Rinseing", and it's not the splines that "mesh in" inside the housing where the final drive lube is... or did you really mean to say the ring and pinion gears? Perhaps you were wrapped up a bit too tight? ::017::
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Maybe I can get some Permatex to seal the diff bearings?