President Elect Trump

[HeliMark]

This has been interesting. My young 20 something year old daughters are up in arms. And they in fact have a lot of valid points. I didn't care for either one, but hope out of this the "traditional" political machine has gotten the jolt they needed to get with the times. Maybe congress, who has I believe a 17% rating will do what they have promised their constituents (no I will not bet on that).

Going to be an interesting 4 years.

Now instead of all the political commercials, we now have two months of Santa exchanging his sled for a Mercedes......

Mark

 

[shredmeister]

MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!!!

 

[OldRider]

Totally agree with AvGeek.


As for the election, I'll just add that I strongly believe that the process needs to change. Regardless of who YOU voted for, the Electoral College Game is putting into place the FIFTH President whom the popular vote chose AGAINST!!! That is five out of 45 Presidents!!!


The process we now have is actually very much how the process works in China, of all places. We vote for local electors, and THEY vote for who goes to the higher offices. As a second issue, I'm sure you saw the headlines of the one elector who said that no matter who his constituents voted for, he would not vote for one candidate. Glad I don't live in his district!


The Electoral College was thought of when travel was difficult in an agrarian society. The broken old rust-bucket clunker needs to be scrapped and replaced.


Glad it's over - for now.

..

 

[arjayes]

Totally agree with AvGeek.


As for the election, I'll just add that I strongly believe that the process needs to change. Regardless of who YOU voted for, the Electoral College Game is putting into place the FIFTH President whom the popular vote chose AGAINST!!! That is five out of 45 Presidents!!!


The process we now have is actually very much how the process works in China, of all places. We vote for local electors, and THEY vote for who goes to the higher offices. As a second issue, I'm sure you saw the headlines of the one elector who said that no matter who his constituents voted for, he would not vote for one candidate. Glad I don't live in his district!


The Electoral College was thought of when travel was difficult in an agrarian society. The broken old rust-bucket clunker needs to be scrapped and replaced.


Glad it's over - for now.

The USA is a huge and diverse country. Eliminating the Electoral College would just about guarantee that a Republican never gets elected President again. All huge urban areas vote monolithically Democrat. Did anyone notice that D.C. went 93% for Clinton, 4% for Trump. How is that even possible? San Francisco County 85% for Clinton. Then again the state of Wyoming went 70% for Trump.

Allowing every future presidential election to be decided by a few highly populated areas of the country (cumulatively a tiny sliver of the country terms of land area) would be a huge mistake. The Democrats would never even have to campaign anywhere but the two coasts and a few large cities in between. The Republicans would have to continue to pound the pavement over the entire country.

The process can get ugly for sure, but in the end it works. In fact it works very well. If it's going to change I'd much rather see term limits and some kind of control over the money involved.

 

[Squibb]

I realise I am disconnected from the action over here in the UK, but I always thought the EC had some merit, where the residents of what are euphemistically called the 'Flyover States' get to have some say in the outcome of the Presidential Election.

Maybe it's outdated, or the weighting needs a revisit, but to scrap the idea would send the wrong message, IMHO, at least for the moment. I do of course accept that there is little point voting Red in say CA, when all the EC votes go only to the overall winner, so something proportional would seem appropriate provided that can be brought into line with the terms of the Constitution.

Here in the UK, our First Past the Post system throws up all sorts of stupidity, but at least we don't get bogged down with PR/ power sharing too often. Rather, our problem is a London Centric elite & a second legislative chamber where members are given grace & favour powers, whilst being unelected at any stage. Indeed, many are failed politicians who have lost their seat in a constituency, or simply old curmudgeons that the Party Leaders want out of the way. This we call the House of Lords - it needs to be replaced by an elected Senate type structure asap.

Feel free to put me straight ......................... KEN

 

[Dogdaze]

Ken, I say a dictatorship is the way to go :exclaim:, like the US/UK etc, you have the 'elite/ untouchables', but at least you know where you stand, and not led along a gardenpath into thinking you can make a difference, when in reality it's the same old same old.
At least where I am (I'm sure there is a form of corruption, just not the same extent) there are 7 parties that hold the government seats and they are rotated to stop any chance of 'familiarity'. On top of that, there is referendum for nearly everything, I also know that the population a so small that this system works, but it could also work on a modular system with larger populations........

 

[Grumpy]

No matter where you live and who you vote for, the government always gets in.

 

[JRE]

Says a lot about the members on here (and perhaps moderators) that this hasn't devolved into one of those threads. O ::003::

 

[OldRider]

Then there is this............

 

[Checkswrecks]

OldRider - I'm aware of the argument that the Electoral College should favor individual voters in the less populous States, but the theory was disproven a long time ago and the opposite has happened. In a reliably red or blue State, the winner take all of the Electoral College means that no matter what you do your vote will not matter. A voter in the majority of California - a huge piece of the country - already gets outvoted by the 95% of the city-dwelling population. By targeting 11 specific States under the current system the "winner" needs only the support of the 22% of the population. It's also one reason our turn-out is so poor.To me, the Electoral College had merit when it was implemented and it's become outdated with time.

But as much as I really would rather see individuals count, I'm more afraid of how badly the current uncompromising extremists in Congress could screw up the Constitution by convening a Constitutional Convention. We're stuck with the Electoral College for the foreseeable future.

Heck, the craziness isn't over. There are a number of Republican Congressmen on the right who Trump alienated and would much rather have President Pence. They realistically could impeach Trump right away. http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/donald-trump-court-university-231082


And then, there is the problem of implementation. It takes many months to get a security clearance at the levels needed to implement Trump's plans. Too many of the people both willing to be part of his administration AND who could potentially fill those jobs have disqualified themselves. http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-can’t-fill-national-security-jobs/ar-AAk6F9D?li=BBnb7Kz


On a lighter note, by the original system we would now have President-Elect Trump and VP-Elect Clinton. Wouldn't that be a hoot!

 

[markbxr400]

Totally agree with AvGeek.


As for the election, I'll just add that I strongly believe that the process needs to change. Regardless of who YOU voted for, the Electoral College Game is putting into place the FIFTH President whom the popular vote chose AGAINST!!! That is five out of 45 Presidents!!!


The process we now have is actually very much how the process works in China, of all places. We vote for local electors, and THEY vote for who goes to the higher offices. As a second issue, I'm sure you saw the headlines of the one elector who said that no matter who his constituents voted for, he would not vote for one candidate. Glad I don't live in his district!


The Electoral College was thought of when travel was difficult in an agrarian society. The broken old rust-bucket clunker needs to be scrapped and replaced.


Glad it's over - for now.

Without the EC, major metropolitan areas would select all of our presidents and set the agendas for everyone that lives in the remaining 99% of the geography that have totally different problems than them. I think the EC is actually pretty clever and overcomes many issues.

BTW, I proudly voted for Trump. He will be the first person to do things that the bought and paid for politicians would never do. I hope his first day in office we see him use his patented "Your Fired" with his corrupt Attorney General. Day 2, have his new AG convene a grand jury to honestly take a look at the corrupt Clintons. Politicians need to have the fear of God put back into them that they are not immune from prosecution if they use their powers for anything other than serving those who elected them into office.

 

[shredmeister]

Checkswrecks...I think I get who you supported and...you are a moderator. Point is, Democrats lost this time. All I want to say is...i don't want the urban, city dwellers affecting my (and many others feel this way) way of life and that's what a popular may would do. People like their rural life style, just look at all the red area on a map. I live in the north valley of CA and feel it here. There is a movement for a new state here because the rural community is fed up. Politics....a great divide in the USA. Still love it here and PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN WHERE ATLEAST I KNOW I'M FREE AND I WON'T FORGET THOSE WHO DIED TO GIVE THAT RIGHT TO ME........
Peace.

 

[shrekonwheels]

Without the EC, major metropolitan areas would select all of our presidents and set the agendas for everyone that lives in the remaining 99% of the geography that have totally different problems than them. I think the EC is actually pretty clever and overcomes many issues.

BTW, I proudly voted for Trump. He will be the first person to do things that the bought and paid for politicians would never do. I hope his first day in office we see him use his patented "Your Fired" with his corrupt Attorney General. Day 2, have his new AG convene a grand jury to honestly take a look at the corrupt Clintons. Politicians need to have the fear of God put back into them that they are not immune from prosecution if they use their powers for anything other than serving those who elected them into office.

Nonsense, they already do as the Electoral represent the largest vote in said area anyhow, further states like Montana have zero say and no reason to even be courted. Now with that said I do appreciate that Obama came through his first time around, still did not get my vote but that means something right there as it meant nothing to him in all reality.
Time for it to go good bye

 

[shrekonwheels]

Dare we mix politics and bikes? I'm just glad it's finally over. People voted for Trump looking for changes that never seem to happen. We went from Carter-Reagan-Bush-Clinton-Bush-Obama and now Trump. It's always business as usual. Nothing seems to change. Maybe this time it will be different. As for us disadvantaged folks in the "rust belt" there are lots of jobs available here. Thing is most of them are in the skilled trades. There simply aren't enough young people that are willing to actually work to fill those jobs.

Technical jobs which require two yaer degrees in America are in desperate demans, so are teachers and the healthcare industry still.

People need to reinvent themselves in order to move forward, much as they had to 100 years ago.

I am in the process of going to college myself. I can still make good money Working on equipment or operating it, but I am tired of wearing myself out so teaching looks like it is my way out!

Those who think there will be change have not noticed the all star old political team which is being assembled under Trump, same ol same ol despite all the jargon, which if people listened closely he did not really say anything.

 

[Andylaser]

After hearing news on Trumps proposed tougher stance on foreign policy, the Italian government has offered its unconditional surrender.

 

[Checkswrecks]

Checkswrecks...I think I get who you supported and...you are a moderator. Point is, Democrats lost this time. All I want to say is...i don't want the urban, city dwellers affecting my (and many others feel this way) way of life and that's what a popular may would do. People like their rural life style, just look at all the red area on a map. I live in the north valley of CA and feel it here. There is a movement for a new state here because the rural community is fed up. Politics....a great divide in the USA. Still love it here and PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN WHERE ATLEAST I KNOW I'M FREE AND I WON'T FORGET THOSE WHO DIED TO GIVE THAT RIGHT TO ME........
Peace.

Your assumption may be wrong, as I'm a Republican with Independent/Libertarian leanings. LOL Seriously, for me the pendulum has simply swung back to the incoming administration being Republican. After almost 30 years of working in DC, having politicians come and politicians go through the top offices is just changing of the seasons. Now that the campaigning is over, I was totally not surprised to see the change of rhetoric yesterday in Trump, Christie, and Giuliani. One thing I do like about Trump is that he does recognize that imperfect compromises are necessary and you can't be so extreme that you are willing to shut down the Government.

The point of my original post is that I agree with the arguments that the EC is obsolete, and I've felt this way for a long time. I do know the arguments for the EC, I just don't agree. For more about why, try Googling: Electoral College myths

As for moderating, AvGeek and I agreed to shut this thread if it goes down the ugly rabbit hole of members attacking each other or losing civility. That still stands.

 

[JRE]

Happy Veterans Day and a big thank you to those that served and/or continue to serve.

On the election - I wasn't a fan of either candidate but Trump is there now so I say give the man a chance and judge him for his actions, not what we think he might do. He may surprise us...could be the best thing ever, could be the end of life as we know it. He definitely has his flaws but so do the other politicians...maybe they are just better at hiding them? Either way, hold on because it's about to get interesting.

 

[AVGeek]

This election cycle brought to mind the Chinese blessing/curse "May you live in interesting times"

 

[Dogdaze]

Three pages in and all is still cordial, let's hope it stays that way as we are S10 rider's after all (that makes us want reliability and durability over glam and glitter). I wish the incoming reign be productive and use it's power wisely, the whole world is holding it's collective breath to see how things fall at the end of January. America is not some tin-pot 3rd world country (even though it does look like it sometimes ::017: it is one of the leading countries of the democratic world and thus has bearing, influence and impact on other nations, it should remain center, not left or right and fairness for all, otherwise you will have those in other countries aligning them selves to the US that are radical in their beliefs, no not just Middle East countries, but right wing nuts in EU countries. You cannot claim to be the leader of the 'free world' if you only want the free to be you!
So lets take a deep breath and be considered with our words.
We chose not to vote, as we do not live in the US so felt it was not our right to make a choice for others, but in our private world, both candidates left a lot to be desired, and it's a pity that that was the best we were offered. Just my thoughts.

 

[magic]

After the 2012 election, where it appeared that Mitt Romney might have won the popular vote but lost the electoral college. Mr. Trump went on a tweetstorm condemning the whole election process. As it turned out Obama won both the popular vote and the EC. Interesting reading look it up. That's enough politics for me. We are enjoying some nice weather here in Wisconsin. It was 65 and sunny yesterday and high 50's today. I'm going for a long ride!