New ECU Flash Option: DIY FLASHING

[Ron_Luning]

It comes with he stock map and one they call 91 octane. That map is probably not nearly as different from stock as the ECU Unleashed map is. There is the capability to easily share maps among users and even import power commander maps, so it can evolve from users and the individual owner can reflash their ECU at will.

I haven't had a chance to play with it yet but ac has.

 

[jaeger22]

On of the really interesting things about the FT set up is that it gives full visibility into the stock maps as well as the 91 octane. And of course you can change them.
As I said above, I was surprised to see that there is only ONE set of fuel maps! ??? . So all modes, all gears, even neutral use the exact same fuel map but with different throttle response and different timing. The 91 octane pump gas load that comes with the software uses the exact same set of fuel maps with the same values.
Now another surprise, The left and right cylinders use different maps! ??? I understand this for an air cooled V twin. It needs the rear cylinder richer to help keep it cool but in a parallel water cooled twin? And it is not consistently richer on one side or the other. The left is about 3% or so richer in the middle of the map but leaner at the low and high RPMs. Any theories on why that is? Probably just how it worked out on the dyno but i would love to understand why.

 

[Ron_Luning]

Maybe the left/right difference helps explain what was seen here:

No I don't think so because the frame over top is in the way. At least I did not see a way to do it. Here is what I came up with.

The straps are loose and just there to catch the motor if it falls over. I also kept blocks of wood close to the bottom and sides. It took awhile but I finally got it down and clear. One of the difficulties is that you have to bring the motor forward about 3 to 4 inches as you come down so the drive shaft coupler clears. You can see that here.

Free at last!

Off with his head!

Another strange thing, there is a lot of carbon build up, More on the left side than the right. And a lot of loose flaky carbon on the left as well. Maybe knocked loose when the piston hit the valves???

In this picture looking into the TB flange, you can see the light leaking around the bent valves. Only the left intake is bent as far as I can tell so far.

It turns out that my old valve spring compressor will not fit into the S10 head so I had to stop and make one. I sacrificed and old deep socket and made this adapter. This tool with a large C Clamp worked fine.

So far it looks like only the two intake valves bent. The guides seem to be OK. I took out one of the good intake valves and inserted in place of each of the bad valves and the guides felt the same.
Tight and smooth and the valve lined directly up with the seat.
More to come
John

 

[jaeger22]

Yes that thought occurred to me when I saw how much more carbon was in the left than in the right. But then the left one hit the valves after some dumb A$$ failed to get the cam chain guides in right. :-[ Could that have knocked some loose and made it look like more? I don't know. I expect Yamaha set up the fuel tables different for a reason but I have no clue why. Did it need to be? Hard to say. Maybe it was some weird trick to help it pass emissions but I can't see how.

 

[avc8130]

The reason for the different maps was probably doing temperature monitoring of the cylinders during extensive dyno testing.

What we need to realize is that we ASSUME the motor is a consistent temperature from cylinder to cylinder. In reality this is far from the case.

The coolant path is not exactly even. Air flow is not even. The exhaust goes along one side. There are many differences that change the fueling required for each cylinder.

Since I don't have access to the specialty equipment, I do my fuel adjustments by percentage and treat both cylinders the same. Is it ideal? Probably not. Good enough? So far.

ac

 

[avc8130]

It comes with he stock map and one they call 91 octane. That map is probably not nearly as different from stock as the ECU Unleashed map is. There is the capability to easily share maps among users and even import power commander maps, so it can evolve from users and the individual owner can reflash their ECU at will.

I haven't had a chance to play with it yet but ac has.

Ron is dead on. The 91 map is pretty much stock "S" mode with the throttle restrictions removed and the timing advanced a tad at WOT.

I didn't find it too impressive, so I made my own throttle map that is more aggressive. If anyone promises to try it and help advance it, I will gladly share it.

ac

 

[3putt]

Now another surprise, The left and right cylinders use different maps! ??? I understand this for an air cooled V twin. It needs the rear cylinder richer to help keep it cool but in a parallel water cooled twin? And it is not consistently richer on one side or the other. The left is about 3% or so richer in the middle of the map but leaner at the low and high RPMs. Any theories on why that is? Probably just how it worked out on the dyno but i would love to understand why.

I am actively changing and flashing my ECU on my 2012 Griso (Moto Guzzi) using free software "GuzziDiag", and we were surprised to find that each cylinder has different fuel mapping, that is a base map, with +/- values for the right cylinder. It was explained that the exhaust waves effect the cylinders and the required fueling is not the same on both cylinders even tho they get the same cooling air. So, it is not all about one cylinder being hotter than the other.

Also, I have found that the advance ignition maps on the Griso are milder then the heavier Stelvio, especially in the upper RPMs zones. Like 35 degrees to 55 degrees.

 

[jaeger22]

OK thanks Tiger, that makes sense to me. The exhaust pipes clearly do have a different shape and therefore the reflected pressure waves would be at least a little out of sync. And the relationship would change over the RPM range just as we see in the fuel maps. Very cool.
I was skeptical of it being totally temperature driven because of the fact that it varies over the RPM range. RPM's change fast and temperature relatively slow. Of course it still could be a part of the equation.
This does make it harder for hacks like me to mess around with the fuel maps with out a dyno. :

 

[avc8130]

OK thanks Tiger, that makes sense to me. The exhaust pipes clearly do have a different shape and therefore the reflected pressure waves would be at least a little out of sync. And the relationship would change over the RPM range just as we see in the fuel maps. Very cool.
I was skeptical of it being totally temperature driven because of the fact that it varies over the RPM range. RPM's change fast and temperature relatively slow. Of course it still could be a part of the equation.
This does make it harder for hacks like me to mess around with the fuel maps with out a dyno. :

It is dependent on EVERYTHING. I am sure Yamaha monitors just about everything possible when developing the fuel maps for the bikes.

Don't feel like it is "harder". If you were using a PCV+AT setup you would have 1 o2 sensor and just be making the same PERCENTAGE change to each cylinder. Most dyno shops only use 1 gas analyzer also and do the same thing.

Honestly, look at the PCV maps guys have posted. With the exception of poking in the dark at the low end constant fueling, most of the PCV maps don't drastically change fueling through the midrange/upper rpms.

The real "tuning" in this bike/ecu is getting throttle maps that you like.

ac

 

[Rasher]

The real "tuning" in this bike/ecu is getting throttle maps that you like.

We only interact with the throttle, if it "feels" good it is good - as long as the motor is not running in a way to do harm I guess nothing else really matters, stock the closed loop I sobviously horribly lean, I guess once that is "fixed" throttle mapping is the real key - and I bet one mans nirvana is another's hell.

I hate T-Mode, both pre and post flash, I would maybe prefer the very first part of the throttle to be a shade less aggressive, but then want the rest to happen real quick - which it does, I hate having to wrench the thing around and dislocate my wrist to get decent drive

 

[avc8130]

We only interact with the throttle, if it "feels" good it is good - as long as the motor is not running in a way to do harm I guess nothing else really matters, stock the closed loop I sobviously horribly lean, I guess once that is "fixed" throttle mapping is the real key - and I bet one mans nirvana is another's hell.

I hate T-Mode, both pre and post flash, I would maybe prefer the very first part of the throttle to be a shade less aggressive, but then want the rest to happen real quick - which it does, I hate having to wrench the thing around and dislocate my wrist to get decent drive

All of that is easily fixed. In fact, I think I have my throttle map very similar to what you would like. By 80% wrist movement I am at 100% TB movement.

ac

 

[Rasher]

All of that is easily fixed. In fact, I think I have my throttle map very similar to what you would like. By 80% wrist movement I am at 100% TB movement.

ac

Probably spot on for me too, I just need someone to extract the ECU-U map I already have as starting point.

Do they mean 100% TB Movement by degree's or flow, I am assuming degree's, but with butterfly's the first part of the movement is more aggressive anyway, as a the first part of the movement gives huge increases in "surface area" compared to the last part, so I would assume your map would give about 90% of maximum flow by about 50% of wrist movement as well - and that last 10% would only make odds with the bike really revving under high load.

 

[avc8130]

Probably spot on for me too, I just need someone to extract the ECU-U map I already have as starting point.

Do they mean 100% TB Movement by degree's or flow, I am assuming degree's, but with butterfly's the first part of the movement is more aggressive anyway, as a the first part of the movement gives huge increases in "surface area" compared to the last part, so I would assume your map would give about 90% of maximum flow by about 50% of wrist movement as well - and that last 10% would only make odds with the bike really revving under high load.

If you buy the harness from FT they will extract the ECU-U flash for you, but obviously you would have to get the ECU to them.

I played around with a few maps. The early maps I made were almost like a 2 stroke dirt bike. The throttle was like a light switch. I had to do some fancy formula work in a spreadsheet program to keep the progressive feel but get the butterflies open much sooner.

ac

 

[Rasher]

If you buy the harness from FT they will extract the ECU-U flash for you, but obviously you would have to get the ECU to them.

Been here before Who pays up if the damage or brick the ECU :question:

I assume as they have done a few now they have it down to a fine art, but I think I will hold out for them getting a Gen2 map elsewhere and then order the kit rather than post my ECU around the planet.

Still waiting for some clever person to sort the surging with headers as well, that is the only thing that "needs" doing, but with the kit I would love to get the bike completely optimised on a dyno

 

[avc8130]

Been here before Who pays up if the damage or brick the ECU :question:

I assume as they have done a few now they have it down to a fine art, but I think I will hold out for them getting a Gen2 map elsewhere and then order the kit rather than post my ECU around the planet.

Still waiting for some clever person to sort the surging with headers as well, that is the only thing that "needs" doing, but with the kit I would love to get the bike completely optimised on a dyno

Brick the ECU. LOL. You've been going on and on for over a year about ECU mods. Always worried about damage to the ECU and hoping someone else would take the risk. If you want something, just do it. Ship the ECU with insurance. If anything happens during post you can buy a new one. "Bricking" one of these ECUs is virtually impossible, especially in the hands of the guys at Flash Tune.

Surging? What's that? Had that fixed within 2 weeks of having the FT harness.

ac

 

[Rasher]

Surging? What's that? Had that fixed within 2 weeks of having the FT harness.

What was the fix & any idea why ECU-U have so many problems doing this :question:

 

[avc8130]

What was the fix & any idea why ECU-U have so many problems doing this :question:

I have no idea why ECU-U has so many problems fixing the surging. Why don't you call and complain directly? If you paid $450 (?) for a flash that supposedly "works" with your exhaust. If it doesn't I would assume you could get your money back or it fixed.

ac

 

[Ron_Luning]

I would think it had something to do with the tps vs. map bias setting. Maybe the surging is occurring right across a jump in bias in the table.

Personally i will just be glad to ride an unrestricted bike when my foot heals.

 

[erenet]

Synmoto (Authorized Tuning Center) in BC doesn't answer the phone, return my calls or reply to my e-mail. Now I'm rethinking my options, this option does reminds of my hobby, programing remote control airplanes and helicopters, we are always messing with the pitch curves and throttle curves, expo., governors, heat sensors to control a servo to riching or leaning nitro or gas engine as they fly in different flight modes. Took me a couple of years to get comfortable with it all and it's a lot of fun when you know what you're doing, or when you think you know what you're doing .

I'm thinking about this unit but intimidated by it.

 

[Ron_Luning]

This is a complete DIY kit.
I may provide more details later depending on their response (haven't received anything yet), but thus far I am very dissatisfied with Flash-Tune's customer service.

Because of their record with me so far, I even question the accuracy of some aspects oof the baseline map they provide. This is based on anecdotal evidence, but I noticed the one time I did the clutch jumper mod during my commute that I smelled like pretty dirty exhaust when I got home. According to their extracted data, the map used with the clutch pulled in is identical to the normal maps except for unrestricted throttle and advanced ignition at 100% throttle.

My commute doesn't involve much 100% throttle, and my intake/ exhaust is totally stock. So how would I stink like I had just gotten off of a piped 1980's UJM unless the clutch jumper mod (neutral map) used different fueling?

Again, anecdotal evidence and it would be difficult to incorrectly extract data from a stock ECU but their actions have me questioning this stuff now.