My bizarre & seemingly unsolvable cruise control issues...hoping for new ideas.

[Don in Lodi]

::008:: ::008::

 

[gv550]

Re: My bizarre & seemingly unsolvable cruise control issues...hoping for new ideas.

As the OP, my ultimate fix was the clutch switch.

I believe mebgardner's was the front brake switch.

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+1 for the front brake light switch.
Several weeks ago there were five threads on here about cruise control failures, of the 5, 3 are reported repaired.

 

[Crew Chief]

I thought a couple of days ago about recapping the corrective actions and test methods under something searchable such as Cruise Control Failure Remedies.

If I have this right,

Sigeye's bike is going strong with 800 miles on it after replacing his second Clutch Switch Assembly. He did no particular tests to prove it bad, but went upon a shot and possibly the test results of mebgardner and gv550.

mebgardners bike is working well after replacing the front Brake Switch Assembly. He tested his with an analogue meter and was able to detect the switch "bouncing" while the lever was being moved. This would not be detectable with a DVOM and in fact needed a discerning eye to find it with the analogue meter.

gv550 fixed his bike by having the front Brake Switch Assembly changed. He tested his using mebgardners technique and found approximately 9 Ohms of resistance through the switch and saw some "bounce" as well. He has about 700 KM on it and it has been put up for the winter. Edited to update distance ridden.

myzter.red had an issue with a broken wire at the throttle switch which is on the throttle body. He made the system operational by splicing the wire and bypassing the switch. If I read his post right, he had a friend with a similar problem.

AKBob and satdishes, have both reported flashing CC light issues, but haven't checked back with any troubleshooting reports or resolutions.

Congratulations to the guys that are looking good now. A lot of folks would have given up, but y'all were tenacious and stuck it out long enough to get to a resolution. You've done the whole community a favor, and likely Mother Yamaha as well. Earlier I mentioned that sometimes the proper tests don't exist. There is a new and proper way to test those switches now thanks to mebgradner. edited to add: I think I need to go get another analogue meter now. My last one was treated, shall we say roughly? She's not working so good. Fortunately it was an inexpensive one.

 

[Checkswrecks]

Good summary - Thanks


Of course, start with the fuses and making sure each of the tail light bulbs illuminate.


When mine failed, the answer was the wire bundle to the trailer lights had loosened so it could rub on the rear tire, shorting the brake light and burning out a fuse.

 

[Nikolajsen]

I thought a couple of days ago about recapping the corrective actions and test methods under something searchable such as Cruise Control Failure Remedies.

If I have this right,

Sigeye's bike is going strong with 800 miles on it after replacing his second Clutch Switch Assembly. He did no particular tests to prove it bad, but went upon a shot and possibly the test results of mebgardner and gv550.

mebgardners bike is working well after replacing the front Brake Switch Assembly. He tested his with an analogue meter and was able to detect the switch "bouncing" while the lever was being moved. This would not be detectable with a DVOM and in fact needed a discerning eye to find it with the analogue meter.

gv550 fixed his bike by having the front Brake Switch Assembly changed. He tested his using mebgardners technique and found approximately 9 Ohms of resistance through the switch and saw some "bounce" as well. He has about 200 KM on it and it has been put up for the winter.

myzter.red had an issue with a broken wire at the throttle switch which is on the throttle body. He made the system operational by splicing the wire and bypassing the switch. If I read his post right, he had a friend with a similar problem.

AKBob and satdishes, have both reported flashing CC light issues, but haven't checked back with any troubleshooting reports or resolutions.

Congratulations to the guys that are looking good now. A lot of folks would have given up, but y'all were tenacious and stuck it out long enough to get to a resolution. You've done the whole community a favor, and likely Mother Yamaha as well. Earlier I mentioned that sometimes the proper tests don't exist. There is a new and proper way to test those switches now thanks to mebgradner. edited to add: I think I need to go get another analogue meter now. My last one was treated, shall we say roughly? She's not working so good. Fortunately it was an inexpensive one.

Nice ::008::

 

[gv550]

Good summary Crew Chief.
For the record I rode 700 kms trouble-free before putting the bike in storage.
And I suggest if anyone is experiencing the dreaded flashing cruise light to check for fault codes. If code 90 is stored the bike is likely telling the truth, a switch has failed.
Also keep in mind the motorcycle on-board diagnostics and the dealer diagnostic tool does not detect resistance and/or bounce in the switches.

 

[sigeye]

I thought a couple of days ago about recapping the corrective actions and test methods under something searchable such as Cruise Control Failure Remedies.

If I have this right,

Sigeye's bike is going strong with 800 miles on it after replacing his second Clutch Switch Assembly. He did no particular tests to prove it bad, but went upon a shot and possibly the test results of mebgardner and gv550.

mebgardners bike is working well after replacing the front Brake Switch Assembly. He tested his with an analogue meter and was able to detect the switch "bouncing" while the lever was being moved. This would not be detectable with a DVOM and in fact needed a discerning eye to find it with the analogue meter.

gv550 fixed his bike by having the front Brake Switch Assembly changed. He tested his using mebgardners technique and found approximately 9 Ohms of resistance through the switch and saw some "bounce" as well. He has about 700 KM on it and it has been put up for the winter. Edited to update distance ridden.

myzter.red had an issue with a broken wire at the throttle switch which is on the throttle body. He made the system operational by splicing the wire and bypassing the switch. If I read his post right, he had a friend with a similar problem.

AKBob and satdishes, have both reported flashing CC light issues, but haven't checked back with any troubleshooting reports or resolutions.

Congratulations to the guys that are looking good now. A lot of folks would have given up, but y'all were tenacious and stuck it out long enough to get to a resolution. You've done the whole community a favor, and likely Mother Yamaha as well. Earlier I mentioned that sometimes the proper tests don't exist. There is a new and proper way to test those switches now thanks to mebgradner. edited to add: I think I need to go get another analogue meter now. My last one was treated, shall we say roughly? She's not working so good. Fortunately it was an inexpensive one.

Agreed and excellent write up. Hopefully this thread helps others and hopefully I never need it again .

I'm now at about 1000 miles with no issues...!

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[eemsreno]

I know of a 2014 Tenere rider in Columbus Junction, Iowa that his foot brake light switch failed and he could not set the cruise.
Brake lights worked fine.

 

[mebgardner]

Nice writeup, thanks CrewChief.

There is system interaction with the set (2 ea.) of micro switches in the left Cruise Control Circuit (CCC) assembly, and the set (2 ea.) in the right Brake Light Circuit (BLC) handlebar switch assemblies, along with the 2 ea. sliding switches at the rear brake lever, and 1 ea. micro switch on the (right?) Throttle Body (TB) "Less Than Zero" Throttle Limit CC Disengage switch.

The micro switches are susceptible to switch "bounce", measurable only with an analog VOM, (not the digital variety), and apparently also susceptible to relatively high resistance (9 ohms is a lot) across the switch contacts. These are a "replace only" due to their sealed design and build.

The sliding switches are susceptible to corrosion, grease, and dirt due to their location and design. They can be cleaned, "polished" gently with a file, and re-assembled.

The micro switch circuits are not all Normally Closed (NC) in design. Some are Normally Open (NO), and so you must know which you're looking at when debugging these circuits. That is, taking an ohm meter to a switch and finding an "open circuit", or "infinite resistance", across a NO switch might be OK. Finding an open across it in both positions (switch open and switch closed), well, that's not so good. The converse is true for the NC switches: Finding zero ohms across it is OK, at rest. Finding 0 ohms across it in both open and closed positions, not so good.

In addition to those failure modes, you're also looking for other failure modes: Relatively high resistance (I'm thinking: more than 1 ohm would be too much, measured with a good quality VOM), when expecting a reading of a "short", or zero ohms. You're also looking for a peculiar behavior of mechanical switches called "bounce" referred to earlier. This is a resistance reading being taken with the analog VOM, and seeing a disruption in the smooth swing of the measuring needle from one side of the scale to the other, in either direction as the switch is cycled on / off. That is, if the needle does not swing smoothly side-to-side, on every cycle of the switch, that's "bounce". If there is "hitch" in it's giddy-up, then it should be replaced because it's beginning to fail.

Good luck out there, and I had lots of high quality help here on this board. I'm very pleased to meet you, all.

 

[Nikolajsen]

This really is great ::012::
Now "we" need to figure out, the reason for high/low idling ::010::

 

[bnschroder]

Nice writeup, thanks CrewChief.

There is system interaction with the set (2 ea.) of micro switches in the left Cruise Control Circuit (CCC) assembly, and the set (2 ea.) in the right Brake Light Circuit (BLC) handlebar switch assemblies, along with the 2 ea. sliding switches at the rear brake lever, and 1 ea. micro switch on the (right?) Throttle Body (TB) "Less Than Zero" Throttle Limit CC Disengage switch.

The micro switches are susceptible to switch "bounce", measurable only with an analog VOM, (not the digital variety), and apparently also susceptible to relatively high resistance (9 ohms is a lot) across the switch contacts. These are a "replace only" due to their sealed design and build.

The sliding switches are susceptible to corrosion, grease, and dirt due to their location and design. They can be cleaned, "polished" gently with a file, and re-assembled.

The micro switch circuits are not all Normally Closed (NC) in design. Some are Normally Open (NO), and so you must know which you're looking at when debugging these circuits. That is, taking an ohm meter to a switch and finding an "open circuit", or "infinite resistance", across a NO switch might be OK. Finding an open across it in both positions (switch open and switch closed), well, that's not so good. The converse is true for the NC switches: Finding zero ohms across it is OK, at rest. Finding 0 ohms across it in both open and closed positions, not so good.

In addition to those failure modes, you're also looking for other failure modes: Relatively high resistance (I'm thinking: more than 1 ohm would be too much, measured with a good quality VOM), when expecting a reading of a "short", or zero ohms. You're also looking for a peculiar behavior of mechanical switches called "bounce" referred to earlier. This is a resistance reading being taken with the analog VOM, and seeing a disruption in the smooth swing of the measuring needle from one side of the scale to the other, in either direction as the switch is cycled on / off. That is, if the needle does not swing smoothly side-to-side, on every cycle of the switch, that's "bounce". If there is "hitch" in it's giddy-up, then it should be replaced because it's beginning to fail.

Good luck out there, and I had lots of high quality help here on this board. I'm very pleased to meet you, all.

Hi,
I appreciate the answers but I am struggling to understand them.
Could one of the electricians here provide a step-by-step instruction how to test the three switches for a possible fault for us non experts?
I.e. something like “connect the two leads of the analog multimeter to the switch leads x and y, set multimeter to setting a, push switch, if you observe b it’s broken, if you observe c it’s good - go to next switch and test”


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[gv550]

Hi,
I appreciate the answers but I am struggling to understand them.
Could one of the electricians here provide a step-by-step instruction how to test the three switches for a possible fault for us non experts?
I.e. something like “connect the two leads of the analog multimeter to the switch leads x and y, set multimeter to setting a, push switch, if you observe b it’s broken, if you observe c it’s good - go to next switch and test”


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What are your symptoms?
Cruise doesn't work but is the cruise light flashing? And do you have any stored codes?

 

[bnschroder]

What are your symptoms?
Cruise doesn't work but is the cruise light flashing? And do you have any stored codes?

I had the flashing cruise light and cruise not working on my return last weekend, but haven’t fired the bike up since. However, I am concerned this may not just go away. 2014 ES with 19K Miles.
Haven’t checked for error codes yet.


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[gv550]

If you have a code 90 (brake switch failure) along with the flashing cruise light, you likely do have a failed switch. Read post #197 for my front brake switch testing and post #212 for my clutch switch test. Lots of other great information in this thread as well but those 2 posts were my findings.

 

[bnschroder]

If you have a code 90 (brake switch failure) along with the flashing cruise light, you likely do have a failed switch. Read post #197 for my front brake switch testing and post #212 for my clutch switch test. Lots of other great information in this thread as well but those 2 posts were my findings.

Thank you, gv550.
Do you mind telling me how to pull the error codes on a '14? I did a search but gave up, and my bike has otherwise been amazingly reliable, so I never have to do this.
There are no codes displayed when I just turn the ignition on.


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[gv550]

Kickstand down
Transmission in 1st
Kill switch STOP
Press and hold TCS and RESET at the same time
Turn key ON
Continue to press and hold TCS and RESET until SELECT/ECU appears on the display
Press and hold TCS and RESET again until DIAG appears
Press and hold TCS and RESET again until 1/14 appears
Press TCS until 61/xx appears. xx is the fault code, if more than one is stored they will show in sequence
Press TCS until 62/xx appears. xx is the number of stored codes. To clear all codes flip kill switch to RUN then STOP
Turn key OFF to exit diagnostics

 

[bnschroder]

Kickstand down
Transmission in 1st
Kill switch STOP
Press and hold TCS and RESET at the same time
Turn key ON
Continue to press and hold TCS and RESET until SELECT/ECU appears on the display
Press and hold TCS and RESET again until DIAG appears
Press and hold TCS and RESET again until 1/14 appears
Press TCS until 61/xx appears. xx is the fault code, if more than one is stored they will show in sequence
Press TCS until 62/xx appears. xx is the number of stored codes. To clear all codes flip kill switch to RUN then STOP
Turn key OFF to exit diagnostics

Thank you for the instructions. I got a 61 / 122, but can't find what that means.
But I also adjusted the rear brake light sensor which I hadn't done a while ago when adjusting for a brake pedal extender, and that may have done the trick. Did a brief test ride, CC light stayed on, and the CC engaged. I hope that's the last of this issue.


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[Gigitt]

Thank you for the instructions. I got a 61 / 122, but can't find what that means.
But I also adjusted the rear brake light sensor which I hadn't done a while ago when adjusting for a brake pedal extender, and that may have done the trick. Did a brief test ride, CC light stayed on, and the CC engaged. I hope that's the last of this issue.


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So the #1 test you should do fixed it!!
::012::

 

[gv550]

Thank you for the instructions. I got a 61 / 122, but can't find what that means.
But I also adjusted the rear brake light sensor which I hadn't done a while ago when adjusting for a brake pedal extender, and that may have done the trick. Did a brief test ride, CC light stayed on, and the CC engaged. I hope that's the last of this issue.


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Great that you got it working. As mentioned, rear brake switch adjustment is always the first thing to check if cruise won't engage, but that alone won't set a code or cause the cruise light to flash so there may still be a gremlin in there somewhere. I did a quick search through the service manual and didn't find code 122.......

 

[raynchk]

Headed down to Agua Prieta, MX and on to Bavista on Sat and experienced the flashing cc light problem on my 2016 for the first time. Bike has been parked outside my RV in Benson, AZ with cover on. Apparently windy, stormy day on Thursday caused the cover to loosen the windshield mounting screws and one side was lower than other. It was very windy and raining and I had the cover strapped underneath the bike. After adjusting the windshield and re-tightening the screws and a couple miles down the road, when I hit button to turn cruise control on, I possibly hit the set (+-) switch at same time and the damned cc light started flashing. Never experienced it before. The rest of the trip, the cc worked intermittently, and yesterday, returning home, the switch only puked once -- the cc light on dash went from steady on to flashing when I went through the border check point. I'm wondering if the cover blowing might have done something to the rear brake lever or possibly the front? Probably un-related coincidence and superstition. After looking at all the 'fixes' here I'm despairing taking it to the dealer under warranty. I will use the method described to check for fault codes and see if there are any. And I'm sure it will work fine when I take it in to the dealer. This seems to be a difficult finicky problem for this motorcycle. Everything else has worked fine, though. I'm assuming there's nothing from Ma Yamaha on this?