Lowering for shorter riders

[Rasher]

Adjustable Raising / Lowering Links

I came across these guys from an E-Bay item:-

http://www.soupysperformance.com/homepage.html

The ones they advertise are for lowering, but I asked if they could do one to raise the bike and the answer is yes, but for an extra $35, which to be honest is still pretty decent even after postage from US compared to prices for fixed items in the UK.

This would give a rise of 0 - 25mm which I would have thought perfect, the bike seems to steer much better with an extra 10mm from extra pre-load, but at the expense of ride quality, this would remove the compromise and allow for you to keep the right amount of sag in the shock for a compliant ride, and improve the steering.

For me I would probably run about 10mm most of the time, but when loading up with the Mrs and full luggage for a big trip could stick an extra 5-10mm on to compensate for the load before setting off, as you never take all the extra shock sag out just from adjusting the pre-load for a passenger - and again I do not have to balance steering with comfort with having the ride height and pre-load seperated.


As it seems to me most of us want to speed up the steering a little over get our feet on the floor I was wondering if anyone else here may fancy some of these and therefore if I can see if they will do a deal, or even start producing raising links for the Suprt-T.

 

[~TABASCO~]

Re: Adjustable Raising / Lowering Links

Over the years I've seen many "adjusable sets" fail. For myself, I would never run adjusable links on my bike. Aluminums strip and fail. Steel units rust / oxidize / etc then fail. For people considering adjustable units just do a little home work. I speak up because it about safty. I'm not directing these comments toward this web site but adjusable links in general.

 

[EricV]

Re: Adjustable Raising / Lowering Links

Like Tabasco, I've seen this type fail before. They are using zinc plated steel and/or Stainless, which is an improvement over most of this type, but almost every one I've seen has failed at some point or galled the threads from being adjusted multiple times, freezing in place.

For the money you're talking about, you could probably solve your root problem by getting a heavier spring for the shock from a local suspension place in the UK. That solves your sag issue and places you in the sweet spot with the existing pre-load. Not such a big deal to adjust for when you ride 2-up then.

 

[Rasher]

Re: Adjustable Raising / Lowering Links

For the money you're talking about, you could probably solve your root problem by getting a heavier spring for the shock from a local suspension place in the UK. That solves your sag issue and places you in the sweet spot with the existing pre-load. Not such a big deal to adjust for when you ride 2-up then.

No it does not, I have a slightly heavier spring on a 3-way adjustable Wilburs, this helps but I want a lot more ride height (about 10mm on top of the 5-6 it sits higher on this spring) I can wind up the spring, but then I have too little sag and a harsh ride, I could drop the forks, but then I have lost the ground clearance I worked so hard to gain.

I want to seperate ride height adjustment from Pre-Load adjustment, so I can keep a nice 60mm of rider sag (which leaves the back too low for "optimum" steering - "optimum" being how I like it rather than the oil tanker slow steering it has standard)

Fixed jackup kits are all in the 25 - 60mm area which is stupidly high.

Wind two extra lines of pre-load on the OE shock and you will notice a huge improvement to steering, but at the expense of ride. This is about a 10mm rise, and exactly what I desire.

The adjustability makes things even better as I can add a bit more when I know I will be two-up for a long period (i.e. when I set off across the Alps for a fortnight) and add another 5 - 10 mm as just upping pre-load to crazy levels to get a good two-up ride height won't give a good result.

The promise with this is to have my cake, and eat it, and have a spare cake - but I take onboard the comments about potential failure so may go back to trying to find a fixed 10mm jack-up kit.

 

[EricV]

Re: Adjustable Raising / Lowering Links

No it does not, I have a slightly heavier spring on a 3-way adjustable Wilburs, this helps but I want a lot more ride height (about 10mm on top of the 5-6 it sits higher on this spring) I can wind up the spring, but then I have too little sag and a harsh ride, I could drop the forks, but then I have lost the ground clearance I worked so hard to gain.

I want to seperate ride height adjustment from Pre-Load adjustment, so I can keep a nice 60mm of rider sag (which leaves the back too low for "optimum" steering - "optimum" being how I like it rather than the oil tanker slow steering it has standard)
<snip>

Ah, more info does help. I did not realize you already were running a aftermarket shock/spring. When I had my Wilbers for the FJR, they offered a shock set up just as you describe, with separate hyd. pre-load and adjustable ride height. Might have been just the ticket for you, but not so great now that you already spent the funds on a shock.

It may be worth your time to PM Tabasco about making you custom fixed riser links. I have some of his lowering links for the wife and they are excellent, far superior to oem even.

 

[~TABASCO~]

Re: Adjustable Raising / Lowering Links

Thanks. We can machine custom set.

 

[Rasher]

Re: Adjustable Raising / Lowering Links

When I had my Wilbers for the FJR, they offered a shock set up just as you describe, with separate hyd.

You cannot have remote pre-load AND ride height adjuster on the Wilburs with the Tenere, of the two the pre-load was most important for me as I swap from solo to two up regularly, otherwise I would have had the ride height adjuster.

Thanks. We can machine custom set.

Any idea how much :question: I think a 10mm raise would be a nice amount, they would need posting to the UK.

 

[Rasher]

Re: Adjustable Raising / Lowering Links

Like Tabasco, I've seen this type fail before. They are using zinc plated steel and/or Stainless, which is an improvement over most of this type, but almost every one I've seen has failed at some point or galled the threads from being adjusted multiple times, freezing in place.

I may order a set anyway, I assume the failures are age / wear / corrosion related :question:

I need something for next spring, and they would allow me to get a good idea of the exact height I want, and hopefully by the time they are getting a bit tired there will be some more options available.

Lust tell me they may offer more sensible heights in future

 

[EricV]

Re: Adjustable Raising / Lowering Links

I may order a set anyway, I assume the failures are age / wear / corrosion related :question:

Typically, yes. I have seen one set of aluminum body ones snap. The owner was, err, hard on his bike. Sort of like Pluric on this board.

The biggest issue for consideration is your environment. If you're right on the coast and salt air is an issue, or other conditions that impact corrosion, it would be a good idea to keep an eye on them and see how well they stay tight and corrosion free.

 

[Rasher]

Re: Adjustable Raising / Lowering Links

Typically, yes. I have seen one set of aluminum body ones snap. The owner was, err, hard on his bike. Sort of like Pluric on this board.

The biggest issue for consideration is your environment. If you're right on the coast and salt air is an issue, or other conditions that impact corrosion, it would be a good idea to keep an eye on them and see how well they stay tight and corrosion free.

Thanks, I live well inland and would be happy to ditch them after a season if I can find the right replacement, the bike is used onroad 99% and the 1% is easy gravel tracks.

It does however do a lot of two-up and will be expected to cover 3000+ miles around the Alps next summer two-up with luggage.

 

[EricV]

Re: Adjustable Raising / Lowering Links

My biggest concern for your stated use would be if only one side came loose when aggressively riding, like two up in the Alps. The stress on the bottom of the shock with them unequally loaded might potentially be Bad. It shouldn't really be a problem, but it's always a possibility. Carry the spanners you need to tighten them and perhaps check after a day of hard riding that they are staying tight.

 

[Rasher]

Re: Adjustable Raising / Lowering Links

Maybe I will just drop the forks a few mm instead

Or just go a bit extreme and try the 25mm ones (Lowest raise I have found so far)

 

[MidlifeMotor]

Re: Lowering Links

In addition to the lowering links, has anyone tried modifying the seat to achieve a "lowering" effect. My goal is to get more of my foot on the ground, so I'm thinking if I can do the lowering links AND take some of the height from the seat my feet can be flat on the ground. 30 inch inseam.

 

[Bullett]

Re: Lowering Links

I took my seat to a local upholsterer. He shaved the foam, but he also took a propane torch and softened and modified the plastic seat pan a bit, to get me as low as possible. He said if I had more time (I was leaving for the Yukon in 2 days), he would build me a seat pan. He said that he could make the less padded seat more comfortable. However, I find the seat is fine for me.

When I initially lowered the rear, we raised the fork tubes about 10mm. I found that in tight twisties, I wasn't getting quick enough turn in. I actually thought I was going to run off the road a couple of times.

 

[MidlifeMotor]

Re: Lowering Links

I took my seat to a local upholsterer. He shaved the foam, but he also took a propane torch and softened and modified the plastic seat pan a bit, to get me as low as possible. He said if I had more time (I was leaving for the Yukon in 2 days), he would build me a seat pan. He said that he could make the less padded seat more comfortable. However, I find the seat is fine for me.

When I initially lowered the rear, we raised the fork tubes about 10mm. I found that in tight twisties, I wasn't getting quick enough turn in. I actually thought I was going to run off the road a couple of times.

Raising the forks 10 mm makes that much difference in handling in twisties? I can see where it might make a difference in slow speed, tight stuff but on highway twisties I would think you could compensate by looking deeper into the turns sooner and leaning it a little more or by off setting your body in the seat toward the inside of the turn. I am no expert by any means but wondering why it would make such a dramatic difference.

 

[Dallara]

Re: Lowering Links

Raising the forks 10 mm makes that much difference in handling in twisties? I can see where it might make a difference in slow speed, tight stuff but on highway twisties I would think you could compensate by looking deeper into the turns sooner and leaning it a little more or by off setting your body in the seat toward the inside of the turn. I am no expert by any means but wondering why it would make such a dramatic difference.

Yes, it can make a dramatic difference, and the *faster* you go the more difference it makes.

Sliding the forks up in the clamps, thereby lowering the front of the motorcycle relative to the rear, does a number of things to make turning sharper, quicker, and more precise. It places more weight on the front wheel relative to the rear, it lessens the relative rake of the steering head, and it reduces the amount of trail. All of these make the steering quicker and promote easier turn-in.

Conversely, in some cases, with other bikes, you can negatively effect straight-line stability with such a change, but in the case of the Super Tenere it has so much rake and trail even with the forks moved up to their limits in the clamps that it would be hard to compromise it's inherent stability.

Due to the taper of the lower part of the fork leg one is limited to sliding the forks up in the triple clamps to about 0.60" (15.24mm or ~15.25mm). Any more than this and the clamping part of the lower triple clamp will start deforming because the tapered section of the fork leg is up inside the clamp. This can damage the triple clamp, so my recommendation is not to exceed this fork height. I personally run my forks slid up in the triple clamps 0.55" (13.97mm, or ~14.00mm). A good starting point is 0.25" (6.35mm or ~6.00mm) to give it a try. You might be surprised at what a difference it will make it steering. However, it will make little difference in felt seat height.

Mind you, all this is out-the-window if you lower the rear. If you use, for instance, a link that lowers the rear of the bike 1.00" (25.4mm), then you have *increased* the amount of rake and trail at the front, as well as taking weight *off* the front wheel and putting *more* weight on the rear wheel. This will *slow* the steering and make it less precise. Once you have lowered the rear with a link you can slide the forks up in the clamps, as described above, but unfortunately not enough to actually compensate correctly. If you lower the rear 1.00" (25.4mm) and can only slide the forks up in the clamps 0.60" (15.24mm) then you still end up with *more* rake and trail than the stock bike, and noticeably more sluggish, less precise, and heavier steering.

Just FYI...

Dallara



~

 

[Rasher]

Re: Lowering Links

Gonna try dropping mine 5mm in the spring.

My stiffer sprung shock holds the rear quite a bit higher, and the guys who fitted it say it will make a bigger difference when the cornering forces kick in and squat down far less - one of the problems with the OEM is it sags so much under cornering forces.

Hopefully this has bought me enough clearance to drop the forks 5mm and still have better than OEM clearance, my ideal scenario would be 10mm raising links, but nobody seems to do links (higher or lower) less than 30mm which is just too much IMO, as I know 5mm (front or rear) can make a big difference to steering.

Luckily I am tall so have the option of raising the back as well as dropping the front, but I am sure those who drop the bike a couple of inches each end are gonna have big clearance issues - a better shock would help though by limiting hte in-turn sag, and be cheaper than a leg extending operation.

 

[scott123007]

Re: Adjustable Raising / Lowering Links

I'm a little late to this party Rasher, but maybe I can give you a little piece of mind about the adjustable links. The ones to get are Soupy's. They are on my 330hp Turbo Hayabusa and have been for 6 years. I know how much hp a bike has, has f$%kall to do with what kind of links are on your shock, but having a swingarm collapse on a bike that goes just under 230 mph would ruin my day. At any rate, I have heard of failures, but they were aluminum (Soupy's are not) AND they were not adjusted properly. It is CRITICAL that they are adjusted EVENLY, or one link is doing ALL the work, and those threaded rods make wonderful stress concentrations. And I almost forgot, they still look like the day I put them on and I have never had anything even think of coming loose.

 

[Rasher]

Re: Adjustable Raising / Lowering Links

Thanks mate,

Sound like the may be OK for me then.

I can check them regularly, my concern was if they could easily go "just like that", especially as they are not all one single piece of metal. I know metal can fracture / sheer / shatter, but they always "look" far safer than something made out of several parts stuck together - then again that describes your forks, wheels, brakes, chassis

Maybe

::021::

They would certainly solve my initial problem and buy me time for some other options to appear, as well as allow me to experiment to find the exact raise I am after.

 

[scott123007]

Re: Adjustable Raising / Lowering Links

Not to be redundant or patronizing, but as far as adjustment goes, just set them both with calipers initially to get them identical in length and then mark the turnbuckle so it makes it easier to count your revolutions when adjusting. Easy peasy ::008::