How I swapped my CCT

[AVGeek]

So if you want to use emoticons, you will have to split your post

Mark, awesome write up, thanks!

 

[Bushyar15]

I appreciate the pictures and description as well!!!!

 

[Toxic Mark]

Probably wouldn't have saved you (us) as the culprit is the upper cam gears jumping not the crank gear...suspect the marks would remain lined up if one of the cams jumped a tooth.

Sleeping.

Then I guess we will all find out when I start her up. Which reminds me, anyone want to save me a search and tell me what size the big nut is that is holding on the clutch basket. I need to pick up a socket on the way home so I can get that thing off and the new one on.

 

[~TABASCO~]

Cool write up !

 

[imcja]

Then I guess we will all find out when I start her up. Which reminds me, anyone want to save me a search and tell me what size the big nut is that is holding on the clutch basket. I need to pick up a socket on the way home so I can get that thing off and the new one on.

You'll be fine...it's a 30mm. Read thru koinz clutch basket thread...for more help.

 

[Toxic Mark]

You'll be fine...it's a 30mm. Read thru koinz clutch basket thread...for more help.

Thanks!

 

[Checkswrecks]

Then I guess we will all find out when I start her up. Which reminds me, anyone want to save me a search and tell me what size the big nut is that is holding on the clutch basket. I need to pick up a socket on the way home so I can get that thing off and the new one on.

As with any engine, if a person has any suspicion that maybe a timing chain may have jumped a cam gear, it is best to pull the cam cover and check cam timing per the book. At the very least, pull a spark plug from each cylinder and turn the engine over by hand BEFORE using the electric starter.


Alternatively, the crank can be manually rotated at the end of the crank, or in gear with the rear wheel. This needs to be VERY carefully and slowly, feeling for initial contact of a valve with a piston. If a tooth has indeed jumped AND the valves don't touch the pistons when manually turned, the engine will run very poorly when started. The process is then to pull the cam cover and check cam timing per the book.


I'm just being over-reactive and cautionary in writing this only because you expressed a bit of nervousness, and we have some folks writing about their lack of mechanical experience who would probably wonder the same. Not because of anything you've written about how your job went.

Nice job!
::008::

 

[Toxic Mark]

My nervousness comes from the lack of visual confirmation the tensioning rod was released. Checking the timing marks only confirms the chain has not slipped while in its current state, un-started. That would change quickly if the tensioning rod has not been released and I crank the motor over.

 

[imcja]

No room...guide is solid against chain. Guide has to move to release plunger. The only 100% guarantee is to remove cover and tie chain to cam gears.

 

[Mzee]

Firstly, excellent work done. You are courageous and this must be commended.

Secondly, I'm sorry if I irritated anyone in demanding a step by step write up of removing and installing the CCT.

Thirdly, as you can see from the responses everyone is appreciative of your effort to post the processes here. We all learn from each other. Knowledge acquired will not be forgotten. Again thank you very much. EricV, one beer for you. ::015::

 

[Toxic Mark]

We will see. I decided to give the throttle body sync a go, so I spent this evening making a home made manometer. I didn't get around to buttoning up the bike and giving it a start. I'm hoping with the new CCT, new clutch basket and a TBS that she will be super smooth once she is running again. Fingers crossed 8)

 

[Toxic Mark]

Update:

New CCT installed a while ago. While the tank was off and the clutch cover was off I updated to the 2014 basket. Delays in getting a bent clutch cover gasket made wrapping up the install take a lot longer than planned. Then I decided to up date the pressure plate with Barnett. I ordered the pressure plate from Jaxon. Due to a rally he attended and a Post Office mix up it took a while longer still to get the pressure plate. Alas, I finally installed everything and sync the throttle bodies. I took the ST out for a quick 50mi and what I have to say is...

'14 clutch basket + new CCT + Barnett pressure plate + throttle body sync = awesome

I'm sure at this point this is not new news, but I hate hanging threads with no payoff.

Super smooth and super quiet. I love it. As for the Barnett pressure plate I used all gold springs and I like the feel and positive engagement of the clutch (at this point it's just a comment on clutch feel as I've only 50 mi on the bike with it). The only thing I didn't like about the clutch pressure plate was the packaging. The plastic was hermetically sealed to the assorted springs. I felt like I was almost bending them out of shape getting them out of the plastic. Then the plastic would leave little static charged bits that were hard to get off. Small neggle, but thought I would mention it. The part itself looked and felt very high quality.

 

[mebgardner]

This seems to be the best write up I can find on the site for a CCT remove and replace.

I'm wondering, in the intervening years, was a method to keep the chain from jumping a tooth ever found?

That is, other than zip-tying the chain to the intake / exhaust cam gears (and removing the valve cover to do that).

I think I understand that a zip tie across the lower gear will not work, because the chain is already tight before the CCT removal step. Zip tie across the chain at the lower gear location, then remove the current CCT (the one being replaced), and voila! possible tooth jump when the CCT is loosened and / or removed because the chain then becomes loose. So, I believe that's not it...

 

[scott123007]

This seems to be the best write up I can find on the site for a CCT remove and replace.

I'm wondering, in the intervening years, was a method to keep the chain from jumping a tooth ever found?

That is, other than zip-tying the chain to the intake / exhaust cam gears (and removing the valve cover to do that).

I think I understand that a zip tie across the lower gear will not work, because the chain is already tight before the CCT removal step. Zip tie across the chain at the lower gear location, then remove the current CCT (the one being replaced), and voila! possible tooth jump when the CCT is loosened and / or removed because the chain then becomes loose. So, I believe that's not it...

The situation is this...
A CCT can be changed from an OEM to MANUAL without removing the valve cover and zip tying the cam sprockets. After the clutch cover is removed, you can wrap a zip tie around both sides of the cam chain guides to pinch it together (or maybe it is the guide on the tensioner side and the chain on the other, it's been a while) so when you remove the tensioner there is still tension on the chain. Then, you just install the manual tensioner and finger tighten the adjuster bolt until you feel resistance. It is now safe to remove the tie wrap, and you can do any final adjustments then.

The problem with trying to replace an OEM CCT with another OEM CCT is you have to bang the cam chain guide against the newly installed CCT to release it from its "cocked" position, for its initial set. Unfortunately, to do that, you first have to remove your zip tie that is holding tension on the chain. It is at that point that "if" the crankshaft/ cams are in an unfriendly part of their rotation, the cam chain will skip teeth. I was lucky, and managed to go from OEM to OEM and not have my chain jump, so I know it can be done, but I have no idea what position my crank/cams were when I did it. Had I known it was hit or miss as far as the chain skipping or not, I would have documented what position my crank was, but without pulling the valve cover, it would still be 50/50 what position the cams were in at the time.

 

[WJBertrand]

What if you tie-wrap the two runs of the chain together being careful run the wrap between the chain and the guide, that is leave the guide free to move. Couldn’t you then press/pop the guide against the tensioner to release it whilst keeping the chain taught? I don’t know, it might be a bit difficult to remove the tie-wrap if it gets caught between the guide and the chain after the tensioner is deployed.


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[RonH]

I did my switch on the 2012 also without issue without tying anything. I first took off the clutch cover, then unbolted the tensioner, then slowly pulled the tensioner carefully looking at the camchain and guide for any movement which would indicate the system is not happy without the tensioner. Removing the tensioner nothing moved even 1mm, so installed the new one, tapped the guide to release, all was fine.

 

[Juan]

What if you tie-wrap the two runs of the chain together being careful run the wrap between the chain and the guide, that is leave the guide free to move. Couldn’t you then press/pop the guide against the tensioner to release it whilst keeping the chain taught? I don’t know, it might be a bit difficult to remove the tie-wrap if it gets caught between the guide and the chain after the tensioner is deployed.


Haven't done the CCT replacement, so I don't know exactly what's behind the cover. Perhaps you can you use a tie-wrap through the pins of the chain, rather than over the chain. This would avoid the tie-wrap getting caught between the guide and the chain.

 

[Dogdaze]

I did my switch on the 2012 also without issue without tying anything. I first took off the clutch cover, then unbolted the tensioner, then slowly pulled the tensioner carefully looking at the camchain and guide for any movement which would indicate the system is not happy without the tensioner. Removing the tensioner nothing moved even 1mm, so installed the new one, tapped the guide to release, all was fine.

I do believe, you had a very luck day! 9 out 10 times, the cams are not in that position, so will rotate given any opportunity.

 

[scott123007]

Well, there you go. If KZRon did it without holding anything, it looks like there is a happy spot for the cams that removal of the tensioner doesn't affect the chain tension whether they are tied or not. The problem is, unless someone has the valve cover off and rotates the crank until that spot is found, we will never know exactly where it is, Furthermore, even if that spot is recorded, it still will only be right half the time, and there is no way to know which half that is, without removing the valve cover. LOL

@ WJBertrand
As far as holding the chain behind the guide, that may be possible, but my guess is you would be hard pressed to get something between the chain and guide with the tensioner pressing everything together. If you can do it that way though, yes, that would be a failsafe way to do it.

 

[limey]

Well, there you go. If KZRon did it without holding anything, it looks like there is a happy spot for the cams that removal of the tensioner doesn't affect the chain tension whether they are tied or not. The problem is, unless someone has the valve cover off and rotates the crank until that spot is found, we will never know exactly where it is, Furthermore, even if that spot is recorded, it still will only be right half the time, and there is no way to know which half that is, without removing the valve cover. LOL

@ WJBertrand
As far as holding the chain behind the guide, that may be possible, but my guess is you would be hard pressed to get something between the chain and guide with the tensioner pressing everything together. If you can do it that way though, yes, that would be a failsafe way to do it.

It’s not worth taking a chance for the sake of an extra few mins work. This is what I used.

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