HARD START

[Xdriver]

Very hard starting today

I left out the part where you are suppose to keep trying to crank it with the fuse out until it does not sputter crank at all then reinstall the fuse to try and fire it off. What you are attempting to do with the fuse out is clear the cylinders of raw fuel. Kind of a short cut to actually removing hte spark plugs and turning it over with them out. Much easier to remove the fuse verses removing the spark plugs. Glad you got it started in the end.

Thanks. Good to know. Now I'm prepared for the next one. I travel for work, so the bike sits when not home. Sure it'll happen again some time.

 

[tpak]

Re: Very hard starting today

I left out the part where you are suppose to keep trying to crank it with the fuse out until it does not sputter crank at all then reinstall the fuse to try and fire it off. What you are attempting to do with the fuse out is clear the cylinders of raw fuel. Kind of a short cut to actually removing hte spark plugs and turning it over with them out. Much easier to remove the fuse verses removing the spark plugs. Glad you got it started in the end.

Correct, or if you are really talented you can stick the fuse in when it sounds like it is actually trying to start but not getting spark. It is really obvious when it is trying to start for real.

When I had the hard start issue the first time pulling the fuse was the only way I could get it to start. I recently had it again, one of the kids was sitting on the bike while I was doing something in the garage, and they were apparently turning the key or flipping the kill switch and cycling the fuel pump -- when I went to start, it wouldn't - obviously flooded by user error. I tried WOT with no luck. Then I tried 3/4 throttle and it caught after 3 or 4 tries. I was just about to give up and pull the fuse. I think that is probably the best procedure if you are stranded somewhere. From now on I'll follow that. I figure if WOT or 3/4 is not getting it done quickly the fuse pull will for sure clear the cylinder and prevent me from killing the battery and having a real problem on my hands.

 

[Tippo]

Re: Very hard starting today

I had the hard starting problem last week when I tried to start my Tenere (2012, purchased new 8/11 w/ 12k miles) after 5 months of storage (warm but not heated garage). I had a full tank of fuel with Sta-Bil and was on a Battery Tender all winter. My last start in late November was a long run to bring the oil up to temp prior to changing. I tried to start it in the normal manner (no throttle) and it did not fire after several rotations. I could smell gas so (having read this thread smugly) I knew it was flooded. I went to WOT and got a few rumbles but it did not start. I put it back on the Tender and did something else. I tried the next day and the day after that with no success. I pulled the fuel pump fuse to clear the flood and it tried to start both with the fuse out and with it back in.

On the fourth day I had the entire day available so when it still refused I decided to pull the spark plugs and have a look. This is a rather involved process and it was the first time I've "had the hood up" on the Tenere although I've done it many times on my Ducatis. The plugs were wet as expected but not fouled with carbon as I suspected. It still did not start. Rumbled a bit as before but no joy.

I was upset. I considered having the dealer come and get it, maybe bring me a new FJR. Thought about lighting it on fire (kidding). Fortunately I was at home with all my tools, a nice place to work, a Ducati to ride, and other thing to entertain me. This would have been hell if I had been on-the-road or out in the woods someplace.

The next day (today) I again tried to start it first thing. No luck. I tried 2 hours later. I first cleared the flood with the fuse out. Then with the fuse in, and no throttle it started to rumble. I kept the starter turning much longer than I thought I should until it was really running. Now all is back to normal. Starts hot, starts cold.

What an ordeal. A modern FI bike should not be this easy to flood or this hard to restart. If I hadn't been at home this would have been really bad. Yamaha must figure this out.

Jeff

 

[GrahamD]

Re: Very hard starting today

What temperature was the cold motor?

Or what was the ambient temperature?

 

[Zuan]

Re: Very hard starting today

I had the hard starting problem last week when I tried to start my Tenere (2012, purchased new 8/11 w/ 12k miles) after 5 months of storage (warm but not heated garage). I had a full tank of fuel with Sta-Bil and was on a Battery Tender all winter. My last start in late November was a long run to bring the oil up to temp prior to changing. I tried to start it in the normal manner (no throttle) and it did not fire after several rotations. I could smell gas so (having read this thread smugly) I knew it was flooded. I went to WOT and got a few rumbles but it did not start. I put it back on the Tender and did something else. I tried the next day and the day after that with no success. I pulled the fuel pump fuse to clear the flood and it tried to start both with the fuse out and with it back in.

On the fourth day I had the entire day available so when it still refused I decided to pull the spark plugs and have a look. This is a rather involved process and it was the first time I've "had the hood up" on the Tenere although I've done it many times on my Ducatis. The plugs were wet as expected but not fouled with carbon as I suspected. It still did not start. Rumbled a bit as before but no joy.

I was upset. I considered having the dealer come and get it, maybe bring me a new FJR. Thought about lighting it on fire (kidding). Fortunately I was at home with all my tools, a nice place to work, a Ducati to ride, and other thing to entertain me. This would have been hell if I had been on-the-road or out in the woods someplace.

The next day (today) I again tried to start it first thing. No luck. I tried 2 hours later. I first cleared the flood with the fuse out. Then with the fuse in, and no throttle it started to rumble. I kept the starter turning much longer than I thought I should until it was really running. Now all is back to normal. Starts hot, starts cold.

What an ordeal. A modern FI bike should not be this easy to flood or this hard to restart. If I hadn't been at home this would have been really bad. Yamaha must figure this out.

Jeff

Sounds exactly like the struggles I had trying to start mine after the winter hiatus.... I never pullled the plugs. Managed to get it started on the second day after multiple pulls of the fuel pump fuse.

 

[Tremor38]

Re: Very hard starting today

I had the hard starting problem last week when I tried to start my Tenere (2012, purchased new 8/11 w/ 12k miles) after 5 months of storage (warm but not heated garage). I had a full tank of fuel with Sta-Bil and was on a Battery Tender all winter. My last start in late November was a long run to bring the oil up to temp prior to changing. I tried to start it in the normal manner (no throttle) and it did not fire after several rotations. I could smell gas so (having read this thread smugly) I knew it was flooded. I went to WOT and got a few rumbles but it did not start. I put it back on the Tender and did something else. I tried the next day and the day after that with no success. I pulled the fuel pump fuse to clear the flood and it tried to start both with the fuse out and with it back in.

On the fourth day I had the entire day available so when it still refused I decided to pull the spark plugs and have a look. This is a rather involved process and it was the first time I've "had the hood up" on the Tenere although I've done it many times on my Ducatis. The plugs were wet as expected but not fouled with carbon as I suspected. It still did not start. Rumbled a bit as before but no joy.

I was upset. I considered having the dealer come and get it, maybe bring me a new FJR. Thought about lighting it on fire (kidding). Fortunately I was at home with all my tools, a nice place to work, a Ducati to ride, and other thing to entertain me. This would have been hell if I had been on-the-road or out in the woods someplace.

The next day (today) I again tried to start it first thing. No luck. I tried 2 hours later. I first cleared the flood with the fuse out. Then with the fuse in, and no throttle it started to rumble. I kept the starter turning much longer than I thought I should until it was really running. Now all is back to normal. Starts hot, starts cold.

What an ordeal. A modern FI bike should not be this easy to flood or this hard to restart. If I hadn't been at home this would have been really bad. Yamaha must figure this out.

Jeff

I agree with your oppinion on modern EFI. That said, we have what we have, so here's a twist to your procedure that many have reported success from. Pull the EFI fuse, as you did, to clear the flooded condition. Next start cranking the engine with the fuse out, then alternately plug in and pull out the fuse, as the engine is cranking ,until the engine starts. This just amounts to giving less fuel to the engine during the normally-rich cold start cycle. Another trick to getting less fuel duing the start cycle is to place the kill switch in the off position, then turn on the key and wait about 5 seconds before turning the kill switch back on. When you turn kill switch back on you will find that the fuel pump will not cycle to pressurize the injectors because the ECU has timed out. The engine still starts just fine, but the mixture won't initially be so rich.

 

[Tippo]

Re: Very hard starting today

The temp was about 60 degrees F. The advice I would offer others is to keep running the starter motor after the engine starts to rumble (as shown in Graham's video). This is contrary to how we were trained but it is a must or the engine will just die.

Jeff

 

[Tremor38]

Re: Very hard starting today

The temp was about 60 degrees F. The advice I would offer others is to keep running the starter motor after the engine starts to rumble (as shown in Graham's video). This is contrary to how we were trained but it is a must or the engine will just die.

Jeff

I should have clarified, I suppose. My post assumes that the rider had already kept the starter motor running well after the rumble without success (it has been documented more than once). Some never even get to the point of a rumble. I agree that what you say should be tried first. 8)

 

[Kevhunts]

Re: Very hard starting today

Somebody may have already discussed this previously but, could this bike be suseptible to winter/summer blends of fuel :question:
I know winter grades are blended to vaporize easier and the opposite for summer blends.

I had a p/u truck which would act up (hard start) for a couple of tank fulls in the spring every year.

 

[DcN]

Re: Very hard starting today

I should probably start a new thread as I have a hard start of a different type but maybe someone else has had a similar issue. The fuel pump does not always cycle during the star-up sequence. No pump cycle--- no start. This may happen 2 or 3 attempts or 25-30. Lifted the tank and checked the connection to pump but found no problems. Start-up sequence on dash display is normal. This began when trying to start bike after winter storage. Don't know if I have an intermittent electrical problem or a soft-ware glitch in the ECU. Any ideas on where to start?

 

[NittanyXT]

Re: Very hard starting today

Sticky fuel pump relay?

 

[DcN]

Re: Very hard starting today

Yeah, maybe. I'll really have to pay attention to how many "clicks" I hear during a failed and successful start attempt but it's a place to start. Thanks.

 

[DcN]

Re: Very hard starting today

OK, If I turn the key just enough to get the display on I get 3 distinct relay "clicks" and fuel pump cycle consistently. If I turn the key all the way "ON" I randomly get 2 "clicks" only and no pump cycle. Faulty ignition switch maybe. More investigation needed.

 

[chris76]

Re: Very hard starting today

Dunno if anyone has mentioned this in these 39 pages yet... Instead of taking out the #4 fuse it's easier to use a mechanical copy of your ignition key. Any locksmith can make one without transponder. It's useful anyway if you've got the cranky OEM cases.

With such a key, the starter works but the fuel pump doesn't - at least on European bikes. As soon as you realise the engine is flooded (i.e. if the engine isn't running after 10 seconds), you put in the "dumb" key, let the starter run with open throttle for 10 seconds in order to dry the engine. Then try again with the regular key and no throttle. I got me such a key a couple of weeks ago, but no starting troubles since. Method is reported to work in some cases in the German forum.

 

[Travex]

Re: Very hard starting today

Excellent point. Unfortunately that won't work for we NA owners.

 

[STPanther]

Re: Very hard starting today

Okay, we are up and running agin. I opened the throttle 3/4 to WOT and cranked till it started. Blew black smoke briefly and runs fine now, starts like a top. Only thing I can figure is that while I have been working on this radio connection and turning the bike on to test the setup (but not cranking) it somehow got flooded.

Anyway, no biggie now, all fine.

I had my first hard start problem this week. Many thanks to this thread for quickly helping me resolve the issue quickly. Thankfully I was only stranded in my garage.
Here's my story. I hadn't ridden the bike for about a week and the previous ride ended with me topping off the tank at my regular fuel stop. I washed the bike in my driveway and tried to start it like I normally would after a wash. I got a strong turnover but no fire. Just the occasional sputter of life from the engine. Scatching my head, my first thought was that I got bad gas at the last fillup. I went to this forum and searched for hard start and found this thread. I went out and held the throttle wide open (WOT) and hit the start button. The engine fired right up. This is a very helpful forum.

Have a safe Memorial weekend.

 

[loop]

Re: Very hard starting today

Same experience for me yesterday (thanks to the Forum - WOT fixed
me up). Rode the bike 3 days prior, no problem. Last stint after bike
sitting for 6 hours was about 10-20 seconds up the driveway. About
70 degrees F and sunny in call cases.

On hard start yesterday, turnover fine (plenty of battery), but
just kick and sputter. Tried battery charger for 30 minutes with no
luck. Then, WOT worked on a single crank. No probs with multiple
starts the rest of the day.

 

[samps]

Re: Very hard starting today

I've had three hard starts (no starts) in the 6 months that I've had the bike.

I can positively remember that, on two of those occasions, I had started and run the bike for less than 5 meters, just to get it over a hump and into the shed, the day before it failed to start. I have no recollection of the circumstances surrounding the third hard start, I might have been drunk... ;-)

Samps

 

[KENAROO]

Re: Very hard starting today

I'm here to report my hard start issue and what I found out.

Just got back from my 2400 mile Austin to Gunnison Co ADV ride. took the bike out and gave her a good washing as she was dirty (the way I like it).. Was in my garage organizing my gear to get my bike in when I hear a strange slurping sound outside by the bike.. when I got to to the bike it stopped but I saw some bubbles from the vent lines that were sitting in my skid plate. the skid plate was still full of water from the wash. I thought that was weird but put the bike in the garage and went along my business.

This morning I went to go to work on the s-10.. I did my usual and started her up and let her warm up while I put my gear on.. right when I went to take off she died and I could not get her started.. This afternoon I got off work early and hit the forums looking for issues and landed here... I tried all the WOT, Fuse trick with no avail... so I went tearing the bike apart to see if I had fuel pump issue.. took off the tank and the fuel line hose and gave the bike an old bump of the starter. Pump worked and squirted out fuel.. but it had bubbles and looked weird.. so I ran the fuel pump and drained some fuel in a bucket.. Yep.. water in the fuel...

ran the bike starter with out fuel line hooked up to evacuate any old fuel in the lines and injectors . Then plugged the lines back in and BINGO.. she started slowly but started running like normal is a few seconds.

So.. I think alot of the issues everyone is having and at least in my case is water in the tank due to the vent lines sucking water in from washing the bike. In my case my vent lines lay on the bottom of my skid plate and can easily suck up water into the tank. Maybe this will help others..

 

[CDMartin884]

Re: Very hard starting today

That makes sense, when I got back from Ouray, I had my first hard start ever. It was two (2) day after washing the bike and putting her up.