Re: Very hard starting today
Why would a vent line suck water up into the tank?
- Mark
Why would a vent line suck water up into the tank?
- Mark
HARD START
- Thread starter Dirt_Dad
- Start date
Kevhunts
"For every one you see, you probably missed three"
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Re: Very hard starting today
As the fuel tank cools (like from washing) the vent line draws air into the tank. So if the end of the vent line was lying in a pool of water, it could get sucked into the tank. But I can't see the skid plate holding enough water to be an issue. Maybe cold water on a warm tank caused condensation? or maybe the gas cap gasket has a leak?markjenn said:
scott123007
Well-Known Member
Re: Very hard starting today
If it is a sealed gas cap, then I guess given the right conditions (gas cap opened when the fuel is hot and under a little pressure, then closed for cool down) it is a possibility. At any rate, to eliminate this possibility, cut a vertical slit in the hose a few inches up from the end so if a vacuum is created, it cannot suck the water up.Kevhunts said:
Travex
Lost is my destination.
Re: Very hard starting today
::008::scott123007 said:
CDMartin884
New Member
Re: Very hard starting today
I like my girlfriends explanation, " it's tired, you rode the hell out of it for 2 weeks,"
I like my girlfriends explanation, " it's tired, you rode the hell out of it for 2 weeks,"
Re: Very hard starting today
Had it again, some of the theories I think are right, others maybe not so much....
It last had a long run, but since I had to mess about with some electrical accessories which involved turning it on and off a couple of times, I had the kill switch turned to off so it did not do the whole whirring thing, but I am now pretty sure that does nothing to help.
I have got away with this on other occasions, I have turned the bike on to check electric gadgets before, and a while back had turned on the ignition to go out, opened the garage and it started to p*** with rain, I was expecting a hard start next time out after these other scenarios but it fired up right away.
Today it did not fire, I went WOT for ages, felt like a minute or so, but this did not help, there was a very strong petrol smell so it was obviously flooded, I tried twice more (without killing the ignition in between) for 30 seconds or so each time and nothing but the odd fart, by now the motor was turning over slower so I shut down the ignition and dug out the charger, stuck the battery on charge and went to look up the FI fuse position. (left hand fuse block, 4th one down)
On my return I tried another WOT but again nothing, and by now I had little left in the battery.
I pulled the fuse and hit the starter, within a couple of seconds the bike started and stalled, I popped the fuse back in (with ignition still on) and it fired up right away.
What I have learned from this is:-
* If I need to mess with the ignition without starting the bike (for example fitting electrical stuff) it would be best to just pull the fuse before starting work.
* If WOT does not work pretty much right away just pull of the panel and pull the fuse, it only takes a few minutes, and is preferable to a flat battery, especially if your not at home, or really need to be going somewhere on the bike.
* WOT is not any sort of factory reset, it obviously sometimes helps, but the fuse pull sorted it instantly.
It is obvious the bike runs very rich "on choke", and once flooded it continues to chuck in so much extra fuel that it will never clear once badly flooded, it seems the fuse pull is a real good workaround and I now have no fear of a hard start scenario, although I now know a bit more about how to avoid it so maybe won't get it ever again, this is only number 2 in 10,000 miles, both after messing around with the ignition without starting the bike....
... You could argue this is a "fault" and I think it is, but cannot see Yamaha doing bugger all about it, regardless of how much we whinge about not accepting this if it was a car, but it is not a car (and be thankful we are not talking about a BMW GS)
Knowledge is power, don't keep turning your ignition on and off without going somewhere, and if it fails to start right away try WOT, of that fails pull the FI fuse, simple really.
Had it again, some of the theories I think are right, others maybe not so much....
It last had a long run, but since I had to mess about with some electrical accessories which involved turning it on and off a couple of times, I had the kill switch turned to off so it did not do the whole whirring thing, but I am now pretty sure that does nothing to help.
I have got away with this on other occasions, I have turned the bike on to check electric gadgets before, and a while back had turned on the ignition to go out, opened the garage and it started to p*** with rain, I was expecting a hard start next time out after these other scenarios but it fired up right away.
Today it did not fire, I went WOT for ages, felt like a minute or so, but this did not help, there was a very strong petrol smell so it was obviously flooded, I tried twice more (without killing the ignition in between) for 30 seconds or so each time and nothing but the odd fart, by now the motor was turning over slower so I shut down the ignition and dug out the charger, stuck the battery on charge and went to look up the FI fuse position. (left hand fuse block, 4th one down)
On my return I tried another WOT but again nothing, and by now I had little left in the battery.
I pulled the fuse and hit the starter, within a couple of seconds the bike started and stalled, I popped the fuse back in (with ignition still on) and it fired up right away.
What I have learned from this is:-
* If I need to mess with the ignition without starting the bike (for example fitting electrical stuff) it would be best to just pull the fuse before starting work.
* If WOT does not work pretty much right away just pull of the panel and pull the fuse, it only takes a few minutes, and is preferable to a flat battery, especially if your not at home, or really need to be going somewhere on the bike.
* WOT is not any sort of factory reset, it obviously sometimes helps, but the fuse pull sorted it instantly.
It is obvious the bike runs very rich "on choke", and once flooded it continues to chuck in so much extra fuel that it will never clear once badly flooded, it seems the fuse pull is a real good workaround and I now have no fear of a hard start scenario, although I now know a bit more about how to avoid it so maybe won't get it ever again, this is only number 2 in 10,000 miles, both after messing around with the ignition without starting the bike....
... You could argue this is a "fault" and I think it is, but cannot see Yamaha doing bugger all about it, regardless of how much we whinge about not accepting this if it was a car, but it is not a car (and be thankful we are not talking about a BMW GS)
Knowledge is power, don't keep turning your ignition on and off without going somewhere, and if it fails to start right away try WOT, of that fails pull the FI fuse, simple really.
Re: Very hard starting today
Now I know too.
Hope it doesn't bite me. But if it does, it's just a nibble now.
Thanks.
Knowledge is king. No tow. No dead battery. No need to cry.
Now I know too.
Hope it doesn't bite me. But if it does, it's just a nibble now.
Thanks.
Knowledge is king. No tow. No dead battery. No need to cry.
Travex
Lost is my destination.
Re: Very hard starting today
Mine let me down for 4 days at an inconvenient time. "Almost" worth putting a small discrete switch inline with the fuse to eliminate the possibility of any hassle on the longer rides... especially in foul weather.
Mine let me down for 4 days at an inconvenient time. "Almost" worth putting a small discrete switch inline with the fuse to eliminate the possibility of any hassle on the longer rides... especially in foul weather.
Re: Very hard starting today
I have this five times in the year and a half that I have owned the bike. Prior to the last incident I was thinking about the fact that all of my fuel injected cars continue to crank even when letting off of the starter button or key before engine is running. The Yamaha does not do that. Last hard start I had was after I got lazy and did not hold starter button in until engine was actually running.
I have this five times in the year and a half that I have owned the bike. Prior to the last incident I was thinking about the fact that all of my fuel injected cars continue to crank even when letting off of the starter button or key before engine is running. The Yamaha does not do that. Last hard start I had was after I got lazy and did not hold starter button in until engine was actually running.
Re: Very hard starting today
This is EXACTLY the conclusion I came to and posted previously, glad to see someone else with more experience on this bike get to the same place.
This is EXACTLY the conclusion I came to and posted previously, glad to see someone else with more experience on this bike get to the same place.
Rasher said:
Re: Very hard starting today
Also, for the guy you quoted, no need to pull the fuse while testing out electical farkles... Just put the kill switch in kill position.
Sent from my SC-03E using Tapatalk 2
Finally a few others who 'get it.' I've posted the same thing in this tread more than once, but it seems most posters prefer to ramble on as if in the grips of ADD. Spinning the motor with EFI fuse out clears the flooded condition in very short order, and there's even a 'notification' of when it's cleared by the engine firing off then dying.tpak said:
Also, for the guy you quoted, no need to pull the fuse while testing out electical farkles... Just put the kill switch in kill position.
Sent from my SC-03E using Tapatalk 2
Re: Very hard starting today
I had another no-start after the bike sat for two weeks of coming home from Utah. I washed the bike up after 8 days of beating the hell out of it and 4226 miles. Cranked it and rode it around the block then parked it. Two weeks later it fired and immediately died I went WOT and it cranked. Pulling the FI fuse was my next move if it had not fired. I've done that on the last misfire start. It has cranked fine after this last hiccup.
As long as I know pulling the fuse works I don't worry about being stranded to much. Pain in the ass but the price of admission.
I had another no-start after the bike sat for two weeks of coming home from Utah. I washed the bike up after 8 days of beating the hell out of it and 4226 miles. Cranked it and rode it around the block then parked it. Two weeks later it fired and immediately died I went WOT and it cranked. Pulling the FI fuse was my next move if it had not fired. I've done that on the last misfire start. It has cranked fine after this last hiccup.
As long as I know pulling the fuse works I don't worry about being stranded to much. Pain in the ass but the price of admission.
Re: Very hard starting today
If you re-read Rasher's post you will notice that he says he had the kill switch in the kill position. I would swear there is still a low level hum that I suspect is the pump even in the kill position. Next time I have the side panel off I will try and see if when the fuse is pulled the noise goes away.Tenerator12 said:
Kevhunts
"For every one you see, you probably missed three"
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Re: Very hard starting today
I heard that low hum last night as I walked thru the diagnostic codes. I'm pretty sure it's coming from the throttle body assm. and not the fuel pump.tpak said:
Re: Very hard starting today
That's correct, the hum is from TBs when going through diag stuff. My other bike with fly by wire hums like that too.
Anyway, just to add more crap to the pile, had a really hard start today. Took about 7 tries to crank her up. Haven't washed the bike in 2 weeks. Rode fine 2 days ago. Did the swingarm lube last night. Put a new tire on and finally installed the rear wheel today. Went to crank her up, no go. WOT her and she stalls. Let her sit for a minute on battery tender, WOT again and boom.
That's correct, the hum is from TBs when going through diag stuff. My other bike with fly by wire hums like that too.
Anyway, just to add more crap to the pile, had a really hard start today. Took about 7 tries to crank her up. Haven't washed the bike in 2 weeks. Rode fine 2 days ago. Did the swingarm lube last night. Put a new tire on and finally installed the rear wheel today. Went to crank her up, no go. WOT her and she stalls. Let her sit for a minute on battery tender, WOT again and boom.
Re: Very hard starting today
Just managed a hot no start :exclaim:
On way home from work, almost home so bike nice and warm, filled up with fuel and then had a short ride home (about 2 miles around town)
After stopping I decided to stop and fiddle with my Autocom as I have an annoying bit of interference, anyway turned the ignition back on to start bike and mess about (it had only been sat for a few seconds while I took off my jacket) I then realised I needed the key to lift the seat so did not start the bike, I turned the ignition off and took off the seat.
When putting the key back in the bike refused to start, WOT did nothing, this is on a warm engine that had just done a 30 minute journey in 25c heat, I always thought the hard start was purely down to "Choke" starts, obviously not.
WOT failed, I pulled what I thought was the FI fuse (4th one down on left hand block) and still no joy, pulled the 3rd fuse down in same fuse block and it started but had the engine management light on and was ticking over unevenly, put fuse back in and turned off and on again, fired up and ran perfect.
Gonna be real careful about turning that key from now on :exclaim:
Hoping this was a one off - maybe the two starts close together upset it :question:
Just managed a hot no start :exclaim:
On way home from work, almost home so bike nice and warm, filled up with fuel and then had a short ride home (about 2 miles around town)
After stopping I decided to stop and fiddle with my Autocom as I have an annoying bit of interference, anyway turned the ignition back on to start bike and mess about (it had only been sat for a few seconds while I took off my jacket) I then realised I needed the key to lift the seat so did not start the bike, I turned the ignition off and took off the seat.
When putting the key back in the bike refused to start, WOT did nothing, this is on a warm engine that had just done a 30 minute journey in 25c heat, I always thought the hard start was purely down to "Choke" starts, obviously not.
WOT failed, I pulled what I thought was the FI fuse (4th one down on left hand block) and still no joy, pulled the 3rd fuse down in same fuse block and it started but had the engine management light on and was ticking over unevenly, put fuse back in and turned off and on again, fired up and ran perfect.
Gonna be real careful about turning that key from now on :exclaim:
Hoping this was a one off - maybe the two starts close together upset it :question:
Red dust
New Member
Re: Very hard starting today
Did the WOT and happy to say it does work!
Did the WOT and happy to say it does work!
Bappo
Bappo
Re: Very hard starting today
Second "no start" today in 25,000 miles. Sat for 2 weeks following the Big Sky Rally when I rode it hard for a lot of hours. Got home, changed the oil, went for a ten minute ride and parked it. Went to start it today and the dreaded almost start and then flood. Let it sit, checked charge, read this thread, and tried the kill switch off, WOT method and it worked.
Sure glad this forum is around ::012::
Second "no start" today in 25,000 miles. Sat for 2 weeks following the Big Sky Rally when I rode it hard for a lot of hours. Got home, changed the oil, went for a ten minute ride and parked it. Went to start it today and the dreaded almost start and then flood. Let it sit, checked charge, read this thread, and tried the kill switch off, WOT method and it worked.
Sure glad this forum is around ::012::
bob dirt
Member
Re: Very hard starting today
Dropped mine on her right side today in the mud with nobody anywhere near me. It wouldn't start. Went WOT and she fired right up. I'm glad I saw this thread before this happened...not sure how long the battery would have lasted.
BTW...she picks up easier than I would have thought 8)
Dropped mine on her right side today in the mud with nobody anywhere near me. It wouldn't start. Went WOT and she fired right up. I'm glad I saw this thread before this happened...not sure how long the battery would have lasted.
BTW...she picks up easier than I would have thought 8)
Philistine
Member
Re: Very hard starting today
so where do I find this wot procedure?
so where do I find this wot procedure?