Found a broken shim when i pulled the tc clutch cover.
Cold Start / Chain Tensioner / Busted Motor JUNK TENERE ??
- Thread starter Zepfan
- Start date
Looking at manual ch5 - p15
aliment marks on cam not visible when K is aligned to case.
hard to get even a .007 gauge in either exhaust or intake
Looks like I'm dropping the motor!~ Broken shim = some bad sh*t I'm guessing.
aliment marks on cam not visible when K is aligned to case.
hard to get even a .007 gauge in either exhaust or intake
Looks like I'm dropping the motor!~ Broken shim = some bad sh*t I'm guessing.
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steve68steve
Active Member
I'm about a day ahead of you... but I have a manual.
AFA having to pull the engine to get the head out:
2 or 3 of the six big bolts that hold the head to the cylinder casting won't clear the frame (they're long).
You can take out the bolts for the plate at the front (this is likely already off if you've got the valve cover off), there there are 4 bolts from the frame into the cylinder head; 1 behind the kickstand; 1 where the kickstand would be if there was one on the right side of the bike; and 1 long thru bolt that goes all the way thru the engine and comes out the other side.
If you pull every bolt but the thru bolt, the engine can be tilted down to let the cylinder head bolts come out. You may have to pull a lot of other stuff (cable connections and such) to get it to that point.
You need a special tool to remove that last pivot/ thru the engine bolt. The long thru bolt passes thru a sleeve which threads into the motor from the right side of the frame. I'm planning to make a tool.
Having said all that, you may not need to pull the engine at all to do the job. At some point I decided it would be less hassle to just pull the cylinder head to ease working on it. I also plan to pull the engine to ease re-assembly and timing... but you don't HAVE to do that, it's just more of a PITA if you don't.
Since you don't have the manual, I'll point out that those 6 bolts that hold the cylinder head on are "special". There is a very specific torque sequence, including a specified amount of angle to re-assemble it. The installation torque permantly deforms the bolts - they are one use only and you'll need to buy new ones.
Get ready for sticker shock on those bolts - I picked mine up from the dealer today. He told me there were only a handful of those bolts in North America - if you're going to need them, order asap because there may be a long lead time. List is $25, you should definitely ask for/ expect a discount from that price. The head gasket is something like $30, too. The full suite of gaskets (clutch cover, CCT, valve cover, cylinder head) is pretty pricey, too.
Good luck. It's tedious, sometimes frustrating, a little expensive, and you'll need to buy/ borrow/ make a few special tools.
AFA having to pull the engine to get the head out:
2 or 3 of the six big bolts that hold the head to the cylinder casting won't clear the frame (they're long).
You can take out the bolts for the plate at the front (this is likely already off if you've got the valve cover off), there there are 4 bolts from the frame into the cylinder head; 1 behind the kickstand; 1 where the kickstand would be if there was one on the right side of the bike; and 1 long thru bolt that goes all the way thru the engine and comes out the other side.
If you pull every bolt but the thru bolt, the engine can be tilted down to let the cylinder head bolts come out. You may have to pull a lot of other stuff (cable connections and such) to get it to that point.
You need a special tool to remove that last pivot/ thru the engine bolt. The long thru bolt passes thru a sleeve which threads into the motor from the right side of the frame. I'm planning to make a tool.
Having said all that, you may not need to pull the engine at all to do the job. At some point I decided it would be less hassle to just pull the cylinder head to ease working on it. I also plan to pull the engine to ease re-assembly and timing... but you don't HAVE to do that, it's just more of a PITA if you don't.
Since you don't have the manual, I'll point out that those 6 bolts that hold the cylinder head on are "special". There is a very specific torque sequence, including a specified amount of angle to re-assemble it. The installation torque permantly deforms the bolts - they are one use only and you'll need to buy new ones.
Get ready for sticker shock on those bolts - I picked mine up from the dealer today. He told me there were only a handful of those bolts in North America - if you're going to need them, order asap because there may be a long lead time. List is $25, you should definitely ask for/ expect a discount from that price. The head gasket is something like $30, too. The full suite of gaskets (clutch cover, CCT, valve cover, cylinder head) is pretty pricey, too.
Good luck. It's tedious, sometimes frustrating, a little expensive, and you'll need to buy/ borrow/ make a few special tools.
Look at the end of the CCT. The one in the picture is off my 13 model and has 23P stamped on the end. The newer version you want will have 2BS on the end. 00 to 01 means a very minor change was made, sometimes it's just a different color.10éréRider said:
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10éréRider
Active Member
Thanks for the picture and the info. The dealer did say that the part number for the 2013 was an "01" which told him it was the new revised one. I had my doubts about this so I'm glad I asked the experts here.OldRider said:
10éréRider
The dealer can't even order the 23P part number, if he tried it would supersede to the 2BS number.10éréRider said:
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Ramseybella
Well-Known Member
Buy a Manual CCT no BS worrying about it failing unless you neglect to check it from time to time, and that's a no brainier it starts chattering tighten it..OldRider said:
Had to tweak mine once in the over 50k since i installed it. Any part that major that has been updated redesigned that many times I am not using, the last one was crap out of the box.
Intake is good but exhaust mark is no where to be seen.
Should i pull the cams and poke around or just start dropping the motor?
All for a little CCT bastard
I hope to be able to pull head to have a shop do the work. I don't want a bunch of single ?? use expensive specialty tools.
Dont know why pics upload sideways
Should i pull the cams and poke around or just start dropping the motor?
All for a little CCT bastard
I hope to be able to pull head to have a shop do the work. I don't want a bunch of single ?? use expensive specialty tools.
Dont know why pics upload sideways
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More sideways pics
Ok the beast is out.
I don’t see anything wrong anywhere tha obviously damaged.
The timing mark on exhaust is very small compared to intake sprocket.
I think someone’s suggestion of re setting timing w/ another leak down would have been better than pulling the motor.
First pic is that the mark for exhaust?
Second pic small grove on seat, ok I think. ?
Should i just re assembly or have the head in to pull valves and check?
Ok the beast is out.
I don’t see anything wrong anywhere tha obviously damaged.
The timing mark on exhaust is very small compared to intake sprocket.
I think someone’s suggestion of re setting timing w/ another leak down would have been better than pulling the motor.
First pic is that the mark for exhaust?
Second pic small grove on seat, ok I think. ?
Should i just re assembly or have the head in to pull valves and check?
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First pic of exhaust mark didn’t come out.
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Madhatter
Well-Known Member
all years have the same parts number for the cct.
Zepfan said:Found a broken shim when i pulled the tc clutch cover.
My first question is whether you've found the rest of this?
No all the shims were under the buckets
Showed it to dealer whos done all the valve adj and of course they didn’t know.
Parts for basic cct bolts gaskets near $600.
Can someone explain the small pins on exhaust cam?
The pins strike the valve caps.
Showed it to dealer whos done all the valve adj and of course they didn’t know.
Parts for basic cct bolts gaskets near $600.
Can someone explain the small pins on exhaust cam?
The pins strike the valve caps.
~TABASCO~
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Decompression
If your able, check the valve mating surface for excessive carbon. You and also look down on the intake valves to see how they look from the intake side. If they looks like excessive carbon, pull them and clean. Your pistons look like they have more carbon than others I've seen. But that doesn't necessarily mean there is an issuer, but just part of the puzzle.
If your able, check the valve mating surface for excessive carbon. You and also look down on the intake valves to see how they look from the intake side. If they looks like excessive carbon, pull them and clean. Your pistons look like they have more carbon than others I've seen. But that doesn't necessarily mean there is an issuer, but just part of the puzzle.
Don in Lodi
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No sign the valves hit the piston tops. That is a lot of carbon, as Jaxon says. I was just looking at Greg the Pole's rebuild blog. He was losing oil and had a major carbon problem, a hand in hand thing... but his piston tops looked t like that.
Head holds gas / fluid. No leaks from valves. Carbon build up didn't seem as bad as some of the photos I've seen on other motors.
Tooth brush and gas as the solvent cleaned pistons and heads pretty well.
I used gas to wash the whole bike pretty much and a bottle brush/ tooth brush.
Some corrosion but everything still looks tight.
Tooth brush and gas as the solvent cleaned pistons and heads pretty well.
I used gas to wash the whole bike pretty much and a bottle brush/ tooth brush.
Some corrosion but everything still looks tight.
steve68steve
Active Member
As already stated, the pins are a decompression mechanism, I think to aid in starting. When you get the service manual, you're going to be kicking yourself for not having it earlier.Zepfan said:
I didn't think there was any way a shim could make it out from under a bucket. You have access to a LOT of the engine case - I'd troll around in there with a magnet, maybe you'll get lucky.
I
Xclimation
Well-Known Member
That doesn't look like a valve shim to me. I thought valve shims were flat? That looks concave.
You said the dealership did a valve check and shim in the past?
And as someone stated. I don't see how a valve shim could make it to under the clutch cover.
I looks like there's more carbon build up on one piston in the pictures.
Could the noise on startup been that metal piece?
I don't know this parallel twin motor as most of y'all but even the timing be just a little off....show leaking on a leak down test?
The motor does have 80k miles and ridden hard. Combo of not the best gas at some times and/or plugs not firing optimal could also cause some carbon build up.
So to those more experienced than myself...That's considered a lot of carbon on an 80k bike that has been ridden hard?
On this posted pic. Zoom in on my windshield!
You said the dealership did a valve check and shim in the past?
And as someone stated. I don't see how a valve shim could make it to under the clutch cover.
I looks like there's more carbon build up on one piston in the pictures.
Could the noise on startup been that metal piece?
I don't know this parallel twin motor as most of y'all but even the timing be just a little off....show leaking on a leak down test?
The motor does have 80k miles and ridden hard. Combo of not the best gas at some times and/or plugs not firing optimal could also cause some carbon build up.
So to those more experienced than myself...That's considered a lot of carbon on an 80k bike that has been ridden hard?
On this posted pic. Zoom in on my windshield!
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Zepfan said:
Figuring out what that is and where the rest of it is, are pretty crucial.
I'd be less concerned about the carbon on the piston crowns and more about on the rings and in the grooves.