Will you take the vaccine

[thughes317]

No. The reason J&J and there Chinese vaccines are no longer recommended is because they have been found to do very little for Omicron and that's getting to be the main threat. The more people get J&J means the more people who are essentially unvaccinated, longer this lasts, and more variants there will be.

So, omicron was initially discovered in South Africa right?

And you're telling us that the J&J vaccine is pretty much ineffective against omicron?

Somebody better have a chat with South Africa.......

"South Africa is set to donate over 2 million doses of the Johnson & Johnson vaccine to other nations in Africa in an effort to boost overall vaccination on the continent, the country announced Friday.

The vaccination drive's mission is to vaccinate at least 60 percent of the continent's population against COVID-19 and will begin distribution in 2022 through the African Medical Suppliers Platform, as explained in the South African government's statement."

MSN

www.msn.com

(This is why people that still retain a capacity for independent thinking are having a tough time believing any "facts" regarding this virus, regardless of source)

 

[Eville Rich]

(This is why people that still retain a capacity for independent thinking are having a tough time believing any "facts" regarding this virus, regardless of source)

Who, exactly, is this that can't think independently? Bending SA's experience to fit a narrative is pretty much par for the anti-vaxxers. J&J is less good than other options, but better than nothing across the range of variants, even if less good against the most recent. If that's what SA has available to donate to others who have even less, that's OK by me. Of course, this also has elements of politics and extending goodwill, so I don't assume it's all sunshine and roses regarding motivations, but the SA gov't is offering more than those that offer nothing.

Eville Rich

 

[thughes317]

I'm thinking you missed the sarcasm in my post?

Who, exactly, is this that can't think independently?

As for those who "can't think independently"? There is a whole population of people (a majority of the present company excluded) who receive their "news" from FB and Twitter feeds. A whole population of people who subscribe to the gospel of the reverends Tucker Carlson or Don Lemon, not realizing that these personalities are merely commentators and not actually unbiased journalists. Folks who can't (or won't) research data from several sources and come to their own educated conclusions.

Bending SA's experience to fit a narrative is pretty much par for the anti-vaxxers.

I'm going to give the benefit of a doubt, attributed to a misread of my comments (or my misread of yours), and assume that you are not accusing me of being anti-vax. Although........given the current definition of "anti-vaxxer" to include anybody in favor of vaccines but "opposed to vaccine mandates", there are several pro-choice members (myself included, see post #2168) who can now be considered "anti-vaxxers". (talk about bending a definition, eh?)

J&J is less good than other options, but better than nothing across the range of variants, even if less good against the most recent. If that's what SA has available to donate to others who have even less, that's OK by me. Of course, this also has elements of politics and extending goodwill, so I don't assume it's all sunshine and roses regarding motivations, but the SA gov't is offering more than those that offer nothing.

Eville Rich

In agreement, 100%.

I was merely pointing out what I perceived as irony: The region where the new variant was discovered, handing out a vaccine that has not shown to be particularly effective against said variant, to other regions in the area in an effort to protect them from said variant.

 

[Wallkeeper]

Lets be sure to keep this on “facts” and avoid getting any where close to ad hominem

 

[Eville Rich]

I'm thinking you missed the sarcasm in my post?

As for those who "can't think independently"? There is a whole population of people (a majority of the present company excluded) who receive their "news" from FB and Twitter feeds. A whole population of people who subscribe to the gospel of the reverends Tucker Carlson or Don Lemon, not realizing that these personalities are merely commentators and not actually unbiased journalists. Folks who can't (or won't) research data from several sources and come to their own educated conclusions.

Right on!

And sarcasm is easy to miss. Consider the use of "/s" or whatever it is the kids are doing these days.

Eville Rich

 

[Sierra1]

Lets be sure to keep this on “facts” . . . .

Well, that seems to be the problem/issue. Who has the correct facts? My usual source is mainstream media. They have their biases and narratives, but on stuff like covid they seem to try and report correctly. But then you have different facts coming from different networks. How do you decide/determine who is right?

 

[WJBertrand]

I would suggest researching reputable research and
Medical journals that can be found using Google Scholar, not just a regular Google search. Download the raw data at VAERS and perform your own analysis, or perform a search on their site. They have a very robust detailed search function.

The mainstream media, even if their intentions are good, don’t understand the technology or the data, worse they try to dumb it down. Often completely loosing the salient points or even getting them backward.


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[fac191]

got my moderna booster today. Zero side effects so far. If I wouldn't have had picture of my card. Wally World wasn't gonna give me one. There was a 20 yr old girl getting her first one. She said she was only getting it because someone was paying here $100. She was antivax to the bone though.

I don't know what's worse, stupidity or being bought cheaply.

 

[Checkswrecks]

Reminds me of the story & Robert Redford movie about the rich guy going into a bar and meeting some nice girl, then offering her a million dollars to sleep with him. After coming around to believe he is serious and setting aside her mental reservations, she accepts.

The he changes the amount to $20. She slaps him and asks "What kind of girl do you think I am?"

To which he answers "We already know the answer, I'm just trying to figure out what level you are."

 

[Wallkeeper]

I don't know what's worse, stupidity or being bought cheaply.

Good question. Every time I compromised principle for expedience I regretted the choice. I finally reached a point where I quit being "expedient". In hindsight, it may the reason I never made it higher than senior management but I think it also left me more satisfied with what I did and the legacy of my work

So, I will rotate the question. Is selling yourself for any price just another way of being stupid?

 

[Mak10]

So you need three shots to be safe now. But wait you also need to mask around the others that have had shots. I'm a little confused about how the shots are doing anything.

As far as I have read the new variant was first introduced in the states by "fully vaccinated individuals " traveling and trying to get back to normal life. Weren't they told that they would be safe and not spread this virus if they received the now recommended three and soon to be four shots? Our first positive in Utah was a fully vaccinated traveler. Millions of vaccinations have been administered yet the world is blowing up with the variant. All I see now is corruption and dollar signs. But maybe I'm wrong.

 

[Cycledude]

Local news here says hospital is over full with COVID patients and 95% of them have not been COVID vaccinated.

Local 45 year old fellow died a few days ago a few days after receiving his COVID booster shot so I suppose there’s plenty of ammunition for both sides of the vaccine issue.

 

[pooh and xtine]

Traditional vaccines are a mild dose of the disease which allows you to build immunity through antibodies. However, you can’t give covid (however mild) to those who are vulnerable (the old, obese and those with underlying conditions) cos you may kill them. So big pharma was asked to develop drugs to alleviate the symptoms and thereby keep people out of hospital. These drugs, unlike traditional vaccines, don’t stop you catching covid or transmitting it.

There is a moral dilemma around giving these drugs to people a) who are not at risk, b) who have already had covid and c) to children, who are immune. It is morally indefensible to give drugs to children, not for their benefit, but on the off chance that it may reduce the likelihood that they’ll infect the vulnerable. This is worse in countries like Austria where anyone over 14 years old refusing the drugs will be fined 3,600 Euros for every 3 months they remain without the injections. Slovakia on the other hand plans to pay the over 60s to have the injections….

We genuinely have lost the plot over this cold, particularly omicron which is a mild cold! How many billions are we going to spend in the vain, fruitless attempt to stop a mild cold from spreading? It’ll spread anyway. Just think what we could have spent the money on instead.

 

[holligl]

So you need three shots to be safe now. But wait you also need to mask around the others that have had shots. I'm a little confused about how the shots are doing anything.

As far as I have read the new variant was first introduced in the states by "fully vaccinated individuals " traveling and trying to get back to normal life. Weren't they told that they would be safe and not spread this virus if they received the now recommended three and soon to be four shots? Our first positive in Utah was a fully vaccinated traveler. Millions of vaccinations have been administered yet the world is blowing up with the variant. All I see now is corruption and dollar signs. But maybe I'm wrong.

Vaccines are not perfect, breakthrough cases happen, especially now with omicron.
Your odds of surviving are greatly improved with the vaccines.
Confirmed cases and death rates are highest among the unvaccinated and immunocompromised.
I do not believe vaccinations should be forced on anyone. On the other hand, should health care workers be forced to treat willingly unvaccinated individuals who get covid?
We all make our own choices. Sometimes they may be life or death.

 

[Checkswrecks]

Traditional vaccines are a mild dose of the disease which allows you to build immunity through antibodies. However, you can’t give covid (however mild) to those who are vulnerable (the old, obese and those with underlying conditions) cos you may kill them. So big pharma was asked to develop drugs to alleviate the symptoms and thereby keep people out of hospital. These drugs, unlike traditional vaccines, don’t stop you catching covid or transmitting it.
...

Wrong. As holligl, WJB, me, and so many others have written before, the vaccines stop the majority of people from catching &/or transmitting the disease BUT not all people become fully protected. That's just plain simple statistics.

...There is a moral dilemma around giving these drugs to people a) who are not at risk, b) who have already had covid and c) to children, who are immune. It is morally indefensible to give drugs to children, not for their benefit, but on the off chance that it may reduce the likelihood that they’ll infect the vulnerable. This is worse in countries like Austria where anyone over 14 years old refusing the drugs will be fined 3,600 Euros for every 3 months they remain without the injections. Slovakia on the other hand plans to pay the over 60s to have the injections….

It's not in yours or my responsibility or control so I'm not going to get frustrated about how the Govt gets people to get vaccinated on in North Korea, East Slobovia, or any other country, so not worth responding.

The rest sounds like you're trying poorly to make a case. For example, (a) the science is finding that the very few people considered truly immune have FIRST had the shots and THEN had a break-thru case (b) because it turns out getting COVID alone does not make you as immune as people first thought. I myself know two people who've gotten COVID twice. (c) As for kids, there's arguments both ways and this is a tangent anyway.

...We genuinely have lost the plot over this cold, particularly omicron which is a mild cold! How many billions are we going to spend in the vain, fruitless attempt to stop a mild cold from spreading? It’ll spread anyway. Just think what we could have spent the money on instead.

I remember early in this very thread where you posted the exact same "mild cold" and "mild flu" comments a year ago. The US has already had 805,000 individual people die of this disease, the UK 147,000 individual people, and the world is now over 5.35 million, so just quit with the same "mild cold" and "mild flu" comments because that has been proven over and over to be just plain false.

 

[Checkswrecks]

So you need three shots to be safe now. But wait you also need to mask around the others that have had shots. I'm a little confused about how the shots are doing anything.

As far as I have read the new variant was first introduced in the states by "fully vaccinated individuals " traveling and trying to get back to normal life. Weren't they told that they would be safe and not spread this virus if they received the now recommended three and soon to be four shots? Our first positive in Utah was a fully vaccinated traveler. Millions of vaccinations have been administered yet the world is blowing up with the variant. All I see now is corruption and dollar signs. But maybe I'm wrong.

The mask &/or vaccine comments have been going from Day One and I'll agree that it's frustrating as Heck.

A year ago when the vaccines came out, we all thought how great it would be to be past all this. That the "anti-vaxxers" would come around and that society would be able to vaccinate the entire planet's population. There were a number of people though, who kept pointing out that the longer it took to get shots into arms, the higher the risk was of mutations and this whole thing continuing.

Now we are finding that some vaccines still have a lot of potency for the new variants and others (J&J, Sinovac, etc) are pretty worthless against the variants, so all the people who got those are again susceptible.
Deja freakin' Vu

 

[WJBertrand]

Some conventional vaccines are made of killed or attenuated viruses, flu shots are an example of this. Those types of vaccines carry a very, very small potential to cause the disease if there are any live, non-attenuated virus left in the preparation due to processing errors. It’s important to note that these vaccines DO NOT cause a mild case of the disease when they work as intended. Some of the same symptoms can be caused but there will be no active infection, mild or otherwise, therefore no disease.

Additionally, not all vaccines consist of killed or attenuated organisms. Diphtheria vaccines for example are made from the toxin the organism (in this case bacterium not a virus) produces. Inoculation with a modified or small dose of the toxin confers immunity with no possibility of an infection as the organism isn’t even present.

Messenger RNA vaccines, like all 3 of the ones in use in the US for covid, also cannot cause the disease since only enough mRNA to code for spike protein is included. The additional genetic code the virus needs to build a complete virus is omitted, therefore no possibility to cause an infection. Congress had nothing to do with asking for specific activity levels, most of the members are woefully scientifically illiterate in my view
and wouldn’t have a clue quite frankly.

The one weakness that’s becoming apparent is that the mRNA code is very specific and highly effective for one version of the spike protein. Mutations tend to reduce the specificity and efficacy as we are seeing, but not all the way to zero effectiveness.

Future mRNA vaccines & boosters will probably be multivalent so will code for more than one version of the spike protein or even to code for other non-spike proteins so as to confer a broader immune response.


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[Wallkeeper]

I do not think the average person really appreciates what a game changer the mRNA vaccines are for cycle time from coding to "in the arm" it is a shame they have met with such resistance

 

[Checkswrecks]

...The one weakness that’s becoming apparent is that the mRNA code is very specific and highly effective for one version of the spike protein. Mutations tend to reduce the specificity and efficacy as we are seeing, but not all the way to zero effectiveness.

Future mRNA vaccines & boosters will probably be multivalent so will code for more than one version of the spike protein or even to code for other non-spike proteins so as to confer a broader immune response.

My daughter said something similar and it is VERY much the opposite of the anti-vaxxers contending that nobody knows side effects or what else the new vaccines might do. The point and irony is that the new vaccines do NOTHING to anything beyond one specific target.

In not knowing how mutations would develop, the vaccines in use were made to be too specific for the world we live in a year later.

 

[holligl]

We all make our own choices. Sometimes they may be life or death.

BTW - This was my wife's thought when I told her I was getting a motorcycle...