Who will be changing there chain tensioner to the 14' during valve adjustment ?

[Don in Lodi]

I think everybody that has done one so far has done it this way. So very lucky!

I too will be doing it this way. Maybe with just a bit more attention to keeping the guide pulled taught.

 

[Karson]

That intake cam will jump back two teeth on the chain if it's not cable tied around the sprocket before removing the CCT.
Good Luck!

Thanks for the reminder! I was planning on zip tying the chain to the sprocket in a couple places just for cheap insurance, but this only confirms it ::008::

 

[~TABASCO~]

Thanks for the reminder! I was planning on zip tying the chain to the sprocket in a couple places just for cheap insurance, but this only confirms it ::008::

X2

 

[cosmic]

I'm pretty sure i'm taking mine to the doctor. Changing oil/filter is my upper limit. ::010::

 

[avc8130]

X2

I know I said I was "done" and not posting again, but I just can't help myself.

There is nothing to zip tie, nothing to worry about when swapping the CCT.

This is a false worry being propagated in this thread. "skipping a tooth" on re-assembly ONLY relates to bolting the cam caps back on after a shim change. This is because the motor simply cannot be put in a position where the valves are ALL slack. This condition does NOT matter during a simple CCT swap.

When the CCT is removed, the chain remains in full contact with the INSTALLED cams/crank shaft, but the ONE SIDE goes slack. A quick whack on the guide with a screw driver and tension is back. No worries about "skipping a tooth".

Sorry, but clearly this thread needs a little "know-it-all" to stay on FACTS. ::010::

 

[helipilotxtz12]

Well Not to beat a dead horse. But Yamaha said to change it the way I Described. They pay .28 hours to do the warranty. My dad is the warranty manager at the dealer ship. The cam chain can't jump off the sprocket. If your mechanical knowledge is that poor maybe you should take to a dealer. I am trained by Honda and Yamaha both. you must unbolt the cam sprocket to get the chain off.

 

[Don in Lodi]

::025:: ::025::

 

[Mzee]

We are trying to help each other here. Why not do it like Koinz with the Clutch Basket: pictures and a write-up step by step. Post here and you will be a hero.

 

[vnp514]

I know I said I was "done" and not posting again, but I just can't help myself.

There is nothing to zip tie, nothing to worry about when swapping the CCT.

This is a false worry being propagated in this thread. "skipping a tooth" on re-assembly ONLY relates to bolting the cam caps back on after a shim change. This is because the motor simply cannot be put in a position where the valves are ALL slack. This condition does NOT matter during a simple CCT swap.

When the CCT is removed, the chain remains in full contact with the INSTALLED cams/crank shaft, but the ONE SIDE goes slack. A quick whack on the guide with a screw driver and tension is back. No worries about "skipping a tooth".

Sorry, but clearly this thread needs a little "know-it-all" to stay on FACTS. ::010::

::008::

Pete

 

[Checkswrecks]

There is nothing to zip tie, nothing to worry about when swapping the CCT.This is a false worry being propagated in this thread. "skipping a tooth" on re-assembly ONLY relates to bolting the cam caps back on after a shim change. This is because the motor simply cannot be put in a position where the valves are ALL slack. This condition does NOT matter during a simple CCT swap.When the CCT is removed, the chain remains in full contact with the INSTALLED cams/crank shaft, but the ONE SIDE goes slack. A quick whack on the guide with a screw driver and tension is back. No worries about "skipping a tooth".

Well Not to beat a dead horse. But Yamaha said to change it the way I Described. They pay .28 hours to do the warranty. My dad is the warranty manager at the dealer ship. The cam chain can't jump off the sprocket. If your mechanical knowledge is that poor maybe you should take to a dealer. I am trained by Honda and Yamaha both. you must unbolt the cam sprocket to get the chain off.

From the technical aspect, you two guys and the Mx Manual all say the same thing.

Neither of you had a worry about the chain skipping, the manual doesn't call for tying the cam chain down, and looking at the engine makes the reason apparent, as I wrote above. Would it hurt to spend the time and effort to tie-wrap the chain the the gears? Of course it won't hurt, but Yamaha does not call for it and it sure will take more time and effort to open the top end.
Note that at the top, the chain wraps around more than a quarter of each gear.

The problem with timing chains slipping teeth in other engines is typically at the bottom, where it slides off the gear shown below. The chain in this engine does not come from straight above so that the links can slide off, plus the bottom of the guide is the pivot end, which keeps the chain on the gear. If somebody were really nervous about keeping slack out of the chain, here's the easy place to use a temporary piece of safety wire. I'm not concerned and will just follow the book like you two did.

The only difference between you two has been time you each said that it took. The time that AVC8130 wrote that he took was an hour and Helipilot wrote that he took 15 minutes, then that the book flat-rate is 0.28 hour (16.8 minutes). You both can be absolutely right.


Flat rates are notoriously short, because they assume that everything is prepped, tools ready, no accessories are win the way, that the mechanic is experienced, etc. If Helipilot worked quickly and had everything at hand, it'd be tight but possible to make 15-20 minutes.


It takes me nearly that to get the bike on the lift, pumped up, and a cold beer.
O

I know AVC8130 and he is an engineer who is fairly experienced as a mechanic. For him to take an hour sounds more realistic for 90% of the people here. So again, I think you guys are saying pretty much the same thing.

It more sounds to me like most folks are anxious from lack of having done this and the emotion is spinning the job up to the point of beating a dead horse. The book can be purchased and (while illegal) it is not hard to find copies online.


::002::

 

[Don in Lodi]

So that's what that sensor was I saw under there the other day, a position sensor. Cool.

 

[eemsreno]

The flat rate code is 140400 and that is 2.5 hours CCT exchange


In that last picture,, see that L shaped bracket on the left side of the sprocket. # 23p-12233 That is a stopper, it won't let the chain skip on the bottem sprocket.

 

[Mzee]

Checkswreck, your response to the two gentlemen is to the point. But I am wondering whether you were also trying to help those not in the know. Pictures, step by step to remove and reinstall the CCT. Just asking if anyone wishes to help.

 

[eemsreno]

On page 5-21 of the service manual
TIP
To prevent the timing chain from skipping a tooth on the intake camshaft sprocket, do not remove the plastic locking tie before installing the timing chain tensioner.

I guess Yamaha doesn't know what they are talking about.

 

[scott123007]

eemsreno, I think there is a little confusion here, on your part, interpreting the shop manual. As Tony said, you do NOT have to do anything other than remove and replace the CCT and then the clutch cover to reset the new CCT. On page 5-21, the cams have already been removed, and they DO have to be tie wraped to the sprocket while they are being bolted back in and until the CCT is re installed. But if you go back to 5-16, it talks about removing the CCT before you un bolt the cam caps. It is at this point, if all you are going to do is replace the CCT, you remove the old one and install the new one. No valve cover removal, just the clutch cover to reset the CCT. Hope this helps

 

[Checkswrecks]

On page 5-21 of the service manual
TIP
To prevent the timing chain from skipping a tooth on the intake camshaft sprocket, do not remove the plastic locking tie before installing the timing chain tensioner.

I guess Yamaha doesn't know what they are talking about.

Agreed Scott -
I did see this and the later removal tip and again I'm not arguing with anybody who points out the good in tying the cam chain to gears, or otherwise keeping chain tension. The reasons I didn't mention this tip or the other were:
A. It's a tip, not an instruction. Page 3 of the manual states "A TIP provides key information to make procedures easier or clearer."
and
B. Because this tip is outside of this functional task, pointing to the end of a task description about installing and aligning the cams and chain. Yamaha uses the lines of small triangles to separate individual tasks within jobs, then jobs within each sub-section, etc.
and
C. As long as one is sure the chain won't jump, there are multiple ways to do a job. With an assembled engine, we have two guys just on this page describing the lack of need to tie-off. For somebody who doesn't want to do the hours to remove the valve cover, I added the possibility of using safety wire to take up chain slack just above the crank gear, which is a trick older than anybody here. I'm sure there are other ways, too.


I'm sure that enough of these are now being replaced that somebody soon will give Mzee and others a step by step photo sequence which can become a sticky.

 

[Mzee]

Agreed Scott -
I did see this and the later removal tip and again I'm not arguing with anybody who points out the good in tying the cam chain to gears, or otherwise keeping chain tension. The reasons I didn't mention this tip or the other were:
A. It's a tip, not an instruction. Page 3 of the manual states "A TIP provides key information to make procedures easier or clearer."
and
B. Because this tip is outside of this functional task, pointing to the end of a task description about installing and aligning the cams and chain. Yamaha uses the lines of small triangles to separate individual tasks within jobs, then jobs within each sub-section, etc.
and
C. As long as one is sure the chain won't jump, there are multiple ways to do a job. With an assembled engine, we have two guys just on this page describing the lack of need to tie-off. For somebody who doesn't want to do the hours to remove the valve cover, I added the possibility of using safety wire to take up chain slack just above the crank gear, which is a trick older than anybody here. I'm sure there are other ways, too.


I'm sure that enough of these are now being replaced that somebody soon will give Mzee and others a step by step photo sequence which can become a sticky.

Thanks Checkswrecks, I hope that somebody will be kind enough to oblige.

 

[eemsreno]

Agreed Scott -
I did see this and the later removal tip and again I'm not arguing with anybody who points out the good in tying the cam chain to gears, or otherwise keeping chain tension. The reasons I didn't mention this tip or the other were:
A. It's a tip, not an instruction. Page 3 of the manual states "A TIP provides key information to make procedures easier or clearer."
and
B. Because this tip is outside of this functional task, pointing to the end of a task description about installing and aligning the cams and chain. Yamaha uses the lines of small triangles to separate individual tasks within jobs, then jobs within each sub-section, etc.
and
C. As long as one is sure the chain won't jump, there are multiple ways to do a job. With an assembled engine, we have two guys just on this page describing the lack of need to tie-off. For somebody who doesn't want to do the hours to remove the valve cover, I added the possibility of using safety wire to take up chain slack just above the crank gear, which is a trick older than anybody here. I'm sure there are other ways, too.


I'm sure that enough of these are now being replaced that somebody soon will give Mzee and others a step by step photo sequence which can become a sticky.

This is probably the easiest safe way to change the CCT.

The way I see page 5-21 is from the start of the page it is describing how to install the cams , time them and bolt them down. the only step left is to install the CCT. but right before installing the CCT it has the TIP saying [Do not remove the tie until the CCT is installed]
If the chain wasn’t prone to jump with an assembled engine [minus the CCT] then it would be safe to remove the tie at this time.

And another big problem with just removing the CCT and putting in the new one without securing the chain is----Yamaha pays 2.5 hours to do this job, They know what the risk of not securing the chain is. If they thought it was safe to just do it they sure would not be paying 2.5 hours.

 

[avc8130]

This is probably the easiest safe way to change the CCT.

The way I see page 5-21 is from the start of the page it is describing how to install the cams , time them and bolt them down. the only step left is to install the CCT. but right before installing the CCT it has the TIP saying [Do not remove the tie until the CCT is installed]
If the chain wasn’t prone to jump with an assembled engine [minus the CCT] then it would be safe to remove the tie at this time.

And another big problem with just removing the CCT and putting in the new one without securing the chain is----Yamaha pays 2.5 hours to do this job, They know what the risk of not securing the chain is. If they thought it was safe to just do it they sure would not be paying 2.5 hours.

IF you are going to tie the chain with wire or a zip tie above the gear, do NOT apply more tension than was on it previously from just the CCT force. It is entirely possible to place more tension in the chain and then release the new tensioner FURTHER than it should be. This would result in a tight cam chain and that is just about as bad as a loose chain.

Clearly you have never performed this swap, or done a valve adjustment on the Tenere.

Tying the TOP of the chain to the cam sprocket will do nothing to prevent chain tooth jumping when THIS operation is performed. If you start by pulling the clutch cover, you can watch the whole thing unfold.

When you first pull the cover, the chain will be tightly wrapped around the crankshaft sprocket. When you remove the CCT, the chain will slacken ever so slightly. Basically the chain will come off ~1/2 tooth on the lower sprocket due to gravity. No big deal, it will go right back to where it was when the new CCT is unsprung. The cam sprockets will always stay fully engaged because of gravity.

If you rotate the engine with no CCT bad things will happen, whether you have the chain tied to a sprocket or not!

Yamaha pays 2.5 hours. Good. It's about time book time is FAIR for the job. I said an hour, but who knows, I was doing a bunch of other maintenance/upgrades at the same time. Another guy said 15 mins. He must have skipped some steps.

By the time you get the clutch cover off, clean the gasket, remove both side covers, lift the tank, remove CCT, clean gasket, install CCT, release CCT, install new clutch cover gasket and clutch cover, bolt down following proper torque sequence, install tank, install both side covers, etc...2.5 hours sounds pretty reasonable.

ac

 

[Mzee]

IF you are going to tie the chain with wire or a zip tie above the gear, do NOT apply more tension than was on it previously from just the CCT force. It is entirely possible to place more tension in the chain and then release the new tensioner FURTHER than it should be. This would result in a tight cam chain and that is just about as bad as a loose chain.

Clearly you have never performed this swap, or done a valve adjustment on the Tenere.

Tying the TOP of the chain to the cam sprocket will do nothing to prevent chain tooth jumping when THIS operation is performed. If you start by pulling the clutch cover, you can watch the whole thing unfold.

When you first pull the cover, the chain will be tightly wrapped around the crankshaft sprocket. When you remove the CCT, the chain will slacken ever so slightly. Basically the chain will come off ~1/2 tooth on the lower sprocket due to gravity. No big deal, it will go right back to where it was when the new CCT is unsprung. The cam sprockets will always stay fully engaged because of gravity.

If you rotate the engine with no CCT bad things will happen, whether you have the chain tied to a sprocket or not!

Yamaha pays 2.5 hours. Good. It's about time book time is FAIR for the job. I said an hour, but who knows, I was doing a bunch of other maintenance/upgrades at the same time. Another guy said 15 mins. He must have skipped some steps.

By the time you get the clutch cover off, clean the gasket, remove both side covers, lift the tank, remove CCT, clean gasket, install CCT, release CCT, install new clutch cover gasket and clutch cover, bolt down following proper torque sequence, install tank, install both side covers, etc...2.5 hours sounds pretty reasonable.

ac

I understood 15min to mean just installing the CCT. But your description above is pretty sensible. I spoke to the local mechanic and he said 1.5 hours. So it will always be different for different people depending on expertise.