Weapons - What you have (NOT a political discussion)

[SkunkWorks]

What’s the view of people here about polymer framed semi auto pistols?
They’re hated here because “it’s not real steel”.

I have a beretta M9A3 that I’ve done some work to (ssshhh … don’t tell anyone… even changing a spring here can get you in the poop with weapons licensing and lose your licence with a huge fine for “illegally altering a firearm”. No joke!)
and I’ve been bagged because I got “a piece of $&!; Beretta” because apparently they don’t shoot straight.
More than one will say this.
Thoughts?

I don't have anything against "Polymer-Frame" handguns in general.
As with anything, there are good ones and not-so-good ones......... They have flooded the market here in the States, with just about every manufacturer offering their versions of them.
They have nearly revolutionized the "Concealed-Carry" spectrum due to their reliability, lighter weight, and with some manufacturers offering very tiny "Pocket" variations.
I have really tried to like them............but I just haven't gravitated to them.
You really need to try them out to see if they are a good fit for you. Try a few different ones.........For me, they were not.
I've owned two, but ended up selling one (S&W Sigma .40) and trading-in the other one (Taurus PT111-Millenium) for things I liked better. (the latter actually had a safety-recall due to the drop-safety failing, and could fire if it struck the ground in a certain orientation)
GLOCK is seemingly to go-to brand in recent times, but it's kinda become the "Xerox" of polymer handguns.............Everyone in the world is familiar with the name.
There are tons and tons of them out there.

As far as Beretta goes.................If people are bagging on them, I would say it's most likely because they don't have a clue!
I own two of them, and have shot others, and they are some of the most reliable and accurate firearms you will ever find.
I find them to be of extremely high quality for their price point, and in my experience will feed anything you stack them with without failure.
There's a reason the US Military contracted them to supply their main service handguns.

I've never had any issues with failure to feed, failure to fire, or failure to extract with either of my Berettas.
They both have thousands of rounds through them, and I'm a cheapskate when it comes to ammo. I have used the cheapest stuff I can find, as well as higher-priced defense ammo.
Never an issue...........ever!

They are both two of the most accurate handguns I own.
One is a rimfire (U22-Neos) with a cheap red-dot scope on it, and will shoot one big ragged hole with as many rounds as you want to put through it.
My other one is a 90-Two chambered in .40S&W, and is the smoothest semi-auto that I own.........It just works every time, and shoots extremely well!

 

[Sierra1]

Back in '83, I was working in a Wal-Mart sporting goods. I remember working the slide on the Beretta. Silky smooth. The Colt Python was the same. The S&W version the Colt was smooth but didn't have the "slickness" of the Colt. There was an S&W semi-auto that was the same way; just didn't have the "slickness" of the Beretta. And the prices reflected the feelings.

Today, my Brownings have that "slickness" and my S&Ws still don't. And the prices still reflect that. But it's not really fair to compare anything with a Browning High Power. My FN SPR turned me into a "trigger snob". So my AR has a Chip McCormack trigger. But I love my S&W Shields. They're the Performance Center (PC) editions. Anything that S&W carries as a PC edition will have an improved trigger, along with other upgrades. It makes a striker fired trigger feel like a "real" trigger.

 

[Sierra1]

I don't have anything against "Polymer-Frame" handguns in general. . . .

Then you might be interested in this pistol. Micro-compact, 10rds, external trigger, and no plastic. Aluminum frame. I "assume" for the die-hard anti polymer and anti-striker fired crowd. I don't have one, but like the looks of it.

 

[SkunkWorks]

Then you might be interested in this pistol. Micro-compact, 10rds, external trigger, and no plastic. Aluminum frame. I "assume" for the die-hard anti polymer and anti-striker fired crowd. I don't have one, but like the looks of it.
View attachment 108240View attachment 108241

The problem for me with anything that is "Micro", is that my Bear-Paws do not fit the frame very well, and one or two of my digits end up hanging off the end.
I've tried the extended-mag versions, but they never quite fit me just right, and there is always some play between the mag and the frame while you're shooting.
Even though I know it's not going to come apart, it always feels like it's not assembled correctly when there is "Play" between the two.
It gets into my head............
I think if I was to try again to venture into the polymer frame world again, it would probably be a M&P version...............something that my hand will fit on correctly.

 

[Sierra1]

. . . . I think if I was to try again to venture into the polymer frame world again, it would probably be a M&P version...............something that my hand will fit on correctly.

My hands are large, yours may be larger. But the top picture is what I have. You can see the 1rd extended mag. It sits securely with zero movement and allows all of my fingers on the grip. I've been carrying it daily for 7yrs. No complaints.

 

[Sierra1]

This is an M&P Sheild EZ PC chamber in .380. (available in 9mm) It's my wife's but soon to be my EDC. Highpoints: internal trigger (not striker), grip safety, ported barrel, Hi-Viz day sights that are also night sights. And part of the EZ name is the mags. There are two little tabs that stick out. Put the mag on a table, push down on the tabs, and drop the bullets in. EZ. No more sore thumbs after a day at the range.

 

[Matt51F1]

Compact pistols are just a no-go here because the barrel is too short for legal ownership. Of course, we have police not contradicting bureaucrats and politicians making laws based on what they see in movies. Who knew that a suppressor would make a revolver go pfft instead of bang?

There is no testing of a gun before you buy it here either. It’s a suck-it-and-see option where you take a guess on how it feels by holding it in a shop.
Makes like FN or H&K or many others are hard to get because nobody buys them because nobody knows how they perform unless they put their cash down and try it by buying it.

I’m glad that someone else likes Beretta. I really like mine as I’ve gone through it with spring’s and polishing and a couple of additions made with a 3D printer. It cycles fine with 3.5 grains of powder and semi wadcutters. If it has a failing now, it’s the nut holding the butt

 

[Matt51F1]

I’m still going to get another but I’m torn between Sig or S&W PC. STI would be good or Bul armoury if I could get to see how they feel.

 

[Sierra1]

The reason for me downsizing ammo size "gun control". With everybody and their dog carrying nowadays, the chance of having to use my pistol at close range in a crowded place has skyrocketed. We are responsible for every round we fire. If I get the bad guy buy my bullet goes through him into grandma . . . . I'm responsible. 9mm is a zippy little booger and overpenetration is not uncommon. I came across a website while shopping for .380rds: 380 ACP Ammo for Sale - AmmoToGo.com (ammunitiontogo.com) It compares numerous .380rds to each other. (and many other calibers too) It shows muzzle velocity, expansion, and penetration. When I looked at the 9mm stats, the least amount of penetration was right at 12" with most into the upper teens. Way too much for close in self-defense. The .380 ammo I chose only penetrated 9" and expanded to .6". I feel much more confident that my bullet(s) will stay in the bad guy and not hurt any good guys. Besides, when this round was invented . . . . by John Moses Browning, it was called the 9mm Browning. If he made it, it has to work.

 

[Sierra1]

. . . . Makes like FN or H&K or many others are hard to get because nobody buys them because nobody knows how they perform . . . .

I’m still going to get another but I’m torn between Sig or S&W PC. STI would be good or Bul armoury if I could get to see how they feel.

From personal experience, anything from H&K or FNH is going to perform at least as well as any other brand. They cost more, but there's a good reason. To me S&W is the best bang for the buck. (no pun intended) Especially when you get into the Performance Center offerings. Factory customization.

 

[Checkswrecks]

The reason for me downsizing ammo size "gun control". With everybody and their dog carrying nowadays, the chance of having to use my pistol at close range in a crowded place has skyrocketed. We are responsible for every round we fire. If I get the bad guy buy my bullet goes through him into grandma . . . . I'm responsible. 9mm is a zippy little booger and overpenetration is not uncommon. I came across a website while shopping for .380rds: 380 ACP Ammo for Sale - AmmoToGo.com (ammunitiontogo.com) It compares numerous .380rds to each other. (and many other calibers too) It shows muzzle velocity, expansion, and penetration. When I looked at the 9mm stats, the least amount of penetration was right at 12" with most into the upper teens. Way too much for close in self-defense. The .380 ammo I chose only penetrated 9" and expanded to .6". I feel much more confident that my bullet(s) will stay in the bad guy and not hurt any good guys. Besides, when this round was invented . . . . by John Moses Browning, it was called the 9mm Browning. If he made it, it has to work.

I thought seriously about going to .380 when buying the P365 for the same over penetration concerns. In the end, 9mm JHP won out for several reasons (one being that people tend to bundle up here for more of the year) but probably the biggest was simple commonality with what else my son and I have. If I really become concerned about reducing penetration I'd use Glasers or DRT.

 

[Sierra1]

You're right about 9mm being everywhere. I told my oldest that I'm going to refer to his generation as the 9mm generation. He was amazed, in a bad way, with the recoil of my .40cal. Even the Browning. Then I realized, .45 hasn't been used in the military since the Beretta got the contract. Even LE is going away from the .40. And only us old farts prefer it over the 9mm. Or at least used to. The .380 will be my "get off me" gun. While the 5.7mm will be my everything else. Come to find out the 5.7 has less recoil than the .380. Who would have thunk.

9mm and .45 are cheaper than .380 and 5.7mm also.

 

[Matt51F1]

You're right about 9mm being everywhere. I told my oldest that I'm going to refer to his generation as the 9mm generation. He was amazed, in a bad way, with the recoil of my .40cal. Even the Browning. Then I realized, .45 hasn't been used in the military since the Beretta got the contract. Even LE is going away from the .40. And only us old farts prefer it over the 9mm. Or at least used to. The .380 will be my "get off me" gun. While the 5.7mm will be my everything else. Come to find out the 5.7 has less recoil than the .380. Who would have thunk.

9mm and .45 are cheaper than .380 and 5.7mm also.

I go 9mm purely for cost. You can’t get brass for 380 here and Super 38 is getting the same.
As we have to do a number of shoots here per year to keep a concealable licence, you get people who do nothing all year and then rush to get the 6 shoots up before the June 30 deadline.
They’ll go to the range and buy factory ammo and then leave the bread lying there.
Cheap people like me go and collect it to clean and reload. I must have picked up around 3000 rounds last time

 

[Sierra1]

38 Super isn't real common even here. I've never shot one but heard that it's fantastic. .380 is still more expensive than 9mm just due to supply and demand. Not a big demand so it stays kinda high.

 

[thughes317]

Beretta?

.380?

How about a Beretta chambered in .380? (my favorite caliber!)





Its companion, a CZ 83 in .380





Love me some surplus guns!

 

[Sierra1]

That CZ has got to be old. It's stamped 9mm Browning, not .380. Its original designation.

 

[thughes317]

That CZ has got to be old. It's stamped 9mm Browning, not .380. Its original designation.

1983-2012 production, made in Czechoslovakia, that's how they refer to .380. The Beretta, made in Italy , is labeled "Cal. 9 short".

Both are European police-issued surplus guns.

Looking to pick up a Makarov in 9x18 (9mm Kurtz) but I've got several dozen pistols that I don't shoot enough already. (Yes, I have a problem)

 

[Sierra1]

Never heard of it referred to as 9mm short. It is, just never heard of it.

 

[MChappy]

All depends on how good your sex life is.

Well if you have to let your wrist recover, I'm thinking things ain't going to good for the home team.

 

[Sierra1]

Well if you have to let your wrist recover, I'm thinking things ain't going to good for the home team.

If the recoil doesn't bother you, it just means you have a lot of alone time.