Tube vs tubeless

JonnyCinco

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As this is my first bike that may have the potential to be a "tubed" rim (watching the Wood/Wasp 21" conversion carefully ***he says as the wallet runs into the corner to hide***).

Never had bike that was NOT tubeless. I change my own tires (never did on a spoked rim before either) and I know the whole process can be quite daunting and needs some heavy duty tools.

Are tubed tires easier to change? In the midst of planning the BSC'13 tour, I am wondering if I should take the dive into the 21" conversion sooner rather than later.
 

mingo

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You're on a riding vacation.. far from home.. you have a puncture with a tubeless tire, what do you? You can plug it, air it and ride on.. You have a puncture with a tubed tire.. what do you do? Remove the wheel, break the bead, pull out the tube..... I know which one I'd rather have to deal with...
 

JaimeV

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JonnyCinco said:
As this is my first bike that may have the potential to be a "tubed" rim (watching the Wood/Wasp 21" conversion carefully ***he says as the wallet runs into the corner to hide***).

Never had bike that was NOT tubeless. I change my own tires (never did on a spoked rim before either) and I know the whole process can be quite daunting and needs some heavy duty tools.

Are tubed tires easier to change? In the midst of planning the BSC'13 tour, I am wondering if I should take the dive into the 21" conversion sooner rather than later.
To me is always a pane in the ass change a tire or repair a puncture but once you know how to do it is not so terrible. Even if I have tubeless, in dirt rides I have a tube in case a bad puncture (like a cut in the tyre). No need major tools.
I don’t find much difference to change tubeless or not.
 

~TABASCO~

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More when I'm back in town,
I pulled into a gas station yesterday coming off the highway. Filled up and road off slowly through the parking lot. The bike felt really strang, I stopped and looked at the rear wheel and the rear tire was flat and off the rim. It poped the bead and looked screwed. I pulled back into the station and got it up in the center stand. Got all my tire gear out, hooked up the pump, pulled and pushed on the tire and it started to re seat. I got it seated back up and found the puncture. I installed a silly string, pumped back up to correct PSI and I was back on the high way. I thought to myself, I'm sure glad I had tubeless. If I had a tube, what a mess that would have been. It's still up to par and ready for the ride home tonight another 4-5 hours.
 

RED CAT

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No comparison. Tubeless is the hot setup. No one who has tubeless would ever go back to tubes unless he bought a dirt bike. Same with shaft drive. Once you've had it, theres no going back.
 

Koinz

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I'm no tube vs tubeless expert, but I thought that the main advantage Of a tube tire was that you air down your tube without the tire de-rimming itself. Of course this would be primarily for off roading.

There's no benefit for a tube on a street bike in my opinion. (at least I cant think of one).
 

stevepsd

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Koinz said:
I'm no tube vs tubeless expert, but I thought that the main advantage Of a tube tire was that you air down your tube without the tire de-rimming itself. Of course this would be primarily for off roading.

There's no benefit for a tube on a street bike in my opinion. (at least I cant think of one).
If you air down a tubed tired to much you will end up with 'pinch flats'. I run at least 12psi in my KTM or XR600 to avoid that, especially in rocky terrain...and yes we have lots of rocks in the desert.
 

Dirt_Dad

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RED CAT said:
No comparison. Tubeless is the hot setup. No one who has tubeless would ever go back to tubes unless he bought a dirt bike. Same with shaft drive. Once you've had it, theres no going back.
::026:: Amen!
 

oregon-rider

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::026:: ::008::
mingo said:
You're on a riding vacation.. far from home.. you have a puncture with a tubeless tire, what do you? You can plug it, air it and ride on.. You have a puncture with a tubed tire.. what do you do? Remove the wheel, break the bead, pull out the tube..... I know which one I'd rather have to deal with...
 

markjenn

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Tubeless is decidedly easier to fix a simple puncture. You plug and go. You carry a plug kit and a small pump/CO2.

With tubes, you have to dismount the wheel, break the bead, dismount the tire, repair/replace the tube, and put it all back together. You have to carry all the tools necessary to dismount either wheel, tire irons, a pump, and spare tube(s) or a tube patching kit. I just had a friend how had a rear puncture on this 640 KTM in the rain on the side of the interstate. He was there with trucks trundling by a few feet away for nearly two hours. While it can be done, it is not pleasant.

A further advantage of tubeless is that they run cooler and are safer. And they're much LESS likely to de-bead after a flat. If you have a sudden puncture on a tubed tire and it de-beads, your chance of going down are pretty high.

All this being said, there are some advantages to tubes in hard-core dirt-bike terrain. If you have the tools and skills, you can fix almost any type of puncture by replacing the tube, but there are types of punctures you might encounter in rocky terrain (rips, tears, slashes, etc.) that are not amenable to plugs. This is why the super-prepared, heavy-duty off-road adventurer may carry tubes for their tubeless wheels - as a last ditch way to get the tire to hold air and get them home.

Bottom line is that tubeless is safer and much more suitable for a long-distance, high-speed bike that is mostly going to see pavement and light dirt and where any puncture is likely to be something simple like a nail or screw. Exactly the sort of riding that is in the S10's wheelhouse. Tubed might be better if your dirt riding is truly hard-core in very rocky terrain with low tire pressures and you're willing to carry all the tools and know how to use them.

While I admire the workmanship and engineering behind the effort to put a 21" on the front of the S10, my initial reaction is "Why not just get a KTM990 to begin with..." rather than attempting to push a S10 into doing something it was never really designed to do. Sorry to say this to the S10 worshippers, but for hard-core dirt riding, the KTM is a much better bike than the S10 can ever be - its chain drive,, 75+ lbs lighter, and has suspension travel and ground clearance that the S10 can only dream about. And the conversion to tubed wheels would be a huge sacrifice in my book. All this being said, if you absolutely have no choice but to make your S10 work better in the dirt, the 21" front end will help quite a bit.

Just my $0.02.

- Mark
 

Tremor38

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markjenn said:
Sorry to say this to the S10 worshippers, but for hard-core dirt riding, the KTM is a much better bike than the S10 can ever be - its chain drive,, 75+ lbs lighter, and has suspension travel and ground clearance that the S10 can only dream about.

- Mark
Well thanks for that bit of breaking news, Captain Obvious. I'm not so sure the thread is about KTM vs S10, or "S10 worshippers" for that matter.
 

mcbrien

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I had a hard time keeping up with KLR's in the woods this weekend ... damn ,guess I bought the wrong bike ::025::
 

eemsreno

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While I admire the workmanship and engineering behind the effort to put a 21" on the front of the S10, my initial reaction is "Why not just get a KTM990 to begin with..." rather than attempting to push a S10 into doing something it was never really designed to do. Sorry to say this to the S10 worshippers, but for hard-core dirt riding, the KTM is a much better bike than the S10 can ever be - its chain drive,, 75+ lbs lighter, and has suspension travel and ground clearance that the S10 can only dream about. And the conversion to tubed wheels would be a huge sacrifice in my book. All this being said, if you absolutely have no choice but to make your S10 work better in the dirt, the 21" front end will help quite a bit.

This is all true Mark
I can ride the 990R any time I feel like it [it's a dirt bike that can do anything and make most bikes look out of place in the dirt] But it is chain drive, not what I need.
I'm thinking that a 21 front wheel on a Super Tenere would be unsafe on the road. They are too heavy and would over power a 21 under hard braking. The 990 is at the limit on weight for a 21 inch front wheel.
Tube wheels are outright dangerous when they go flat on the road.
Steve
 

NoMorBills

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"Why not just get a KTM990"

Well put. The 21 is a cool Mod, but too pricey for the small advantage. If I just rode in the dirt or for competition then Yes. For long road trip with a little dirt, No.

Stay with the tubless you will be happy you did.
 

limey

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So guys what size tube do I need that will fit front and back just for emergencies? leaving for Whitehorse in a week.
Thanks Paul.
 

markjenn

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limey said:
So guys what size tube do I need that will fit front and back just for emergencies? leaving for Whitehorse in a week.
If you can only carry one, carry the front size - the front size will work in the rear in a pinch, but not vice-versa. Of course, it is pointless to take any unless you're fully prepared with tools and techniques to dismount the wheels, break beads, etc. You also need to be able to get the old tubeless stem out, but I assume this can be done with cutters of some sort.

- Mark
 
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