Today's lesson- why you should only use OEM brake pads

[Dirt_Dad]

It's straight out of the tech guide from yamaha.

I think we can all agree that Yamaha has done a poor job of marketing the Tenere. But calling their customers fat doesn't seem like an improvement in strategy.

 

[Mike Sisson]

and why the rear brake pads wear more on some bikes than others...

First of all, the ABS/UBS system has friction coefficients in the software for OEM pads and there is no way to change that.

i'll do my best to explain this.

When you apply the brakes, hydraulic pressure sensors feed the pressure to the ABS computer. If the bike is not slowing down at the appropriate rate for the amount of braking that is being applied, ie. your bike is heavy, the UBS system increases the rear brake pressure all the way to the point that it matches the front brake pressure.

So, if you run different brake pads, the pressure vs. rate of deceleration is all screwed up and you are compromising the wonderful system they have designed. Seems to me that mixing them, like OEM up front and aftermarket out back, would be the worst scenario. You could be roasting your rear rotor or wearing out your new pads at a high rate, depending on your choice of aftermarket pads.

Those of you that are seeing increased wear of the rear brake pads versus the front, well, you are either fat, 2 up, heavily loaded or all of those.

This is why some people that rarely use the rear brake still see a lot of wear.

I am all of those and got 22k out of my back....and they probably could have easily gone another 5k. Was heading to Baja so decided changing was better than wondering..

 

[tc9988]

Man, there is a lot of bad weather going around and keeping people from riding.

Careful, you might start to sound like some BMW riders I know.

26,000 miles on OEM pads and I changed them. HH EBC fronts and organic EBC rears for the replacement. More initial bit, yes. Longevity? We shall see. Do I care if I have to replace a rotor after the next set of pads? Nope, money well spent and it will never exceed the happy quotient. Not even close.

Yes, there's an algorhythm that goes in to determine bias, etc. You aren't that smart, so quit trying to internet engineer it, ride it, enjoy it, and continue on.

of course he isn't says the know it all fireman

 

[kmac]

My solution is, ride REALLY fast, brake REALLY hard, replace whatever parts I need to repeat that process as often as possible.

If you brake deep enough to activate the ABS it stops being about pressure and starts being about which wheel can take more/less pressure, so ALWAYS brake hard enough to activate ABS and problem solved...right? ;D

 

[XtreemLee]

I ride solo, not much extra weight installed beyond stock, and rarely use the rear brake. Also since most of my miles are commuting, the stopping is not very aggressive usually.

I had to replace the rear pads at something like 12k miles. I have never had to do that so early on any other bike. Also, my rear rotor is pretty much screwed. It is grooved to hell and has discernible thick/thin points.

I think your theory about needing to use the OEM pads is wrong for a variety of reasons.

With linked braking how do you manage to not use rear brake all the time???

 

[Firefight911]

of course he isn't says the know it all fireman

Except elwood. He's smart enough. His middle names are Honda, Yamaha, Kawasaki, and multi million dollar R&D budgets. And on the weekends, he drinks Dos Equis. But the rest of us, including this knows enough to know he doesn't know firefighter, we aren't smart enough to out engineer Yamaha. I did stay at the Holiday Inn though, once.

 

[Koinz]

Never mind just tap the rear brake first. Then it's all unlinked.

XtreemLee - In case you missed it.

 

[snakebitten]

I know this:
1. The ABS on this bike changed my mind about ABS.

I like it. (ABS)

2. Linked brakes are even sillier than ABS. This isn't a Gold Wing.
But now I love the way this bike lets me use both linked and unlinked.

I like it too. (Linked brakes)

3. This 600lb behemoth with 450lbs of cargo, (combination of fat rider and skinny wife with tent & coffee pot) stops much better than any big bikes I have ever ridden.

I like it. (Yamahas S10 braking system)

I'll buy rotors and pads to keep it performing just like it did day 1. And I'll be happy with that.

 

[arjayes]

Snake - You're an awesome evangelist for this bike. It's clear you love almost everything about it, but you don't thump your chest - you just gush. It makes me happy that you're so happy!! ::012::

 

[Ron_Luning]

With linked braking how do you manage to not use rear brake all the time???

Rear brake pedal is the meaning there

 

[snakebitten]

Arjayes,
Thanks for being nice about it.
I'm sure it's irritating to some.

 

[squarebore]

Fat, dumb and happy is a great way to go through life (the army taught me that). I squeeze brakes and it stops real quick. When no pads are left I change them.

I'm very happy for the techos here to discuss how the systems work. Most entertaining. Like snake though, I just love it because it works.

 

[Philistine]

Well I fixed this problem buy disconnecting the ABS, I have 9000 kms on the rear pads and they have heaps of meat left on them I reckon about another 10,000 left, I use the rear brakes a lot, on tar and on the gravel and I don't have any problems without the abs, plus when those snotty gravel corners tighten up on you, I just use the back brake to get the big girl around with a bit of counter steer, you cant do that with the ABS on ::26::

 

[Ramseybella]

I just put heavy metal EBC's all around and ride.
Fat I am load up my bike I do and just ride, lately I have been pawing at my camping gear deciding what to bring to Great basin NP end of May.
Going to put on some Pirelli scorpion XT's on the Woody's wheels for the road.

::021::

 

[Mzee]

Snake - You're an awesome evangelist for this bike. It's clear you love almost everything about it, but you don't thump your chest - you just gush. It makes me happy that you're so happy!! ::012::

You made me laugh so hard. Great sense of humour.

 

[Mzee]

OEM brake pads, how does the sensor know that the brake pads mounted are not OEM ones?

 

[Firefight911]

It doesn't know. The algorhythm is based off of "known" data. Change the input data and the resultant output changes. What that output is is an unknown. It could cause abs to kick in at a different threshold and it could affect the ubs ratio.
Most likely, under a normal situation, which is one as defined as not reaching the edge of the design envelope, you and I probably won't notice any significant difference. At the extremes, max threshold breaking for example, the bike may intervene earlier or later than the algorhythm is designed.
At the end of the day, it is incumbent on the individual to explore their own and the bike's limitations and understand A - when the bike might intervene with it's electronic driver aids, and B - what the response is.

Sent from my Windows phone. Spelling errors free of charge.

 

[imrubicon]

Wow :-[

Really , you spent the time to think about this.
I was busy riding
) ) ) ) ) ) ) )

 

[Firefight911]

I felt like adding some prose after my 200 mile ride I had. ;/. Nothing better than just going out, tuning out, and riding. I even tested the extreme edge of the threshold braking envelope when that deer decided to play chicken with me.
Practice kept me safe. I didn't rely on the driver aid to save me.

Sent from my Windows phone. Spelling errors free of charge.

 

[EricV]

It doesn't know. The algorhythm is based off of "known" data. Change the input data and the resultant output changes. What that output is is an unknown. It could cause abs to kick in at a different threshold and it could affect the ubs ratio.
Most likely, under a normal situation, which is one as defined as not reaching the edge of the design envelope, you and I probably won't notice any significant difference. At the extremes, max threshold breaking for example, the bike may intervene earlier or later than the algorhythm is designed.
At the end of the day, it is incumbent on the individual to explore their own and the bike's limitations and understand A - when the bike might intervene with it's electronic driver aids, and B - what the response is.

I think you did a nice job of stating your points, but I disagree with the highlighted parts concerning the ABS. IMHO, no amount of changes to the system, (pads, lines, fluid, levers, etc), will impact when the ABS kicks in. ABS is all about wheel speed. When the wheel speed data doesn't match the bike speed data, the ABS ECU believes a wheel is starting to lock and does it's thing, (assuming you are on the brakes at the time, wheelies don't engage the ABS).

As a data point outside the curve, I'm fat, ride with the panniers always on, usually heavily loaded, and the rear pads lasted 42k miles or more, (I'd have to check the log for the exact number). Front pads still going strong now at 70k. But, you see, I don't brake nearly as often as a commuter rider does. I don't commute, just go places. I rarely brake into corners either, setting my corner speed with throttle before I enter the corner and holding that speed all the way thru the corner.

@ Bloodline - I see where you're going, but don't agree. And I'm not quite getting why you started this thread. PSA? Or just something that made sense to you and you wanted to share it? A better argument could be made for matching pads front and rear than what type of pads are used, IMHO. But I don't really think that makes enough difference to stress about either.