The Tenere made me do it - WR250R

[Dirt_Dad]

would the KLX be a bike that would require all this fuss, or would it be a bike that I can put 4-5k per year on and not be overhauling all the time.

I was once told that pavement miles are very hard on bikes designed expressly for the dirt. Reason being dirt bikes are designed for limited traction and the traction intense pavement is damaging to the gearing and other parts subjected to higher forces imposed by more jarring and less spinning.

To be clear, I don't recall who told me that, and I definitely will not vouch for the accuracy of what I was told. I could see how it might be true.

Ride it, service it per the manual, quit your worrying.

My thoughts exactly. It's a Yamaha designed to do both street and dirt. They're not exactly known for falling apart. I'm pretty sure most people don't baby these things with excessive oil changes. I can assure you, mine won't be treated like it's a delicate race bike.

 

[avc8130]

Pretty simple:

KFX: VALVE ADJUSTMENTS
WR: valves?

::022:: ::021:: ::022::

 

[Yamaguy55]

WRR holds about 1.3 QTS. I obsess about replacing major engine parts. However, the manual says every 3-4K. But with 1.3 QTS, I don't see frequent oil changes costly. I change at the end of every season, which works out to about 1k between changes. I only ride on the road to get to the dirt.
As stated above, the low maintenance was part of the reason I bought it. Here in PA, the state started inspecting all autos a while back, and all the kids that decided to hop up their Asian (primarily) cars suddenly had to put it back to stock or take it off the road. That was the other part of why I chose the WRR, and have left the emissions and exhaust alone. I considered a plated 300EXC, but figured sooner or later, that or some other plated grey market bike would catch up with me.
The power isn't arm stretching, but has never kept me from any trail or track I've desired to attempt. As this bike and the DR are both street legal, and neither is true dirt-bike powerful or all that light. So that tends to temper where you take it anyway.

For any reasonable off road use and as long as you can tolerate the wind and seat on the road, it will do just about any reasonable thing you like.

As I've said before, Graves is planning to use this engine (and they could have used the WR250F) for a planned Moto3 entry. I think it is stout enough.

If you read Skierd's "How I spent my summer vacation" over on ADV, I'd say he proves it will go from Baltimore , the TAT, then home. That's more than I'd expect from a converted race bike.

It isn't perfect, but it is easy to own and works well. I'd buy another one.

 

[Yamaguy55]

I don't know the reasoning for the quick oil changes even on a KLX450 unless it is do to most people enjoying wide open throttle and the oil gets beat up pretty quick from heat ect during dirt riding plus the low volume of oil. I can't see dirt riding at high speeds being a whole lot different on the engine on a Wr250R or a motocross engine or an enduro engine as they are all basically the same idea in design.
I was all ready to go the usual 3000,5000 mile whatever Yamaha recommends on my WR250R and on the oil forums even guys that rode 500 miles on the street, the oil was sheared down to a 20wt from the original 10w40. Possible 10w20 oil still works fine for all I know, just the facts as I've read them on the forum. Some engines are just hard on oil. I'd assume 1qt of oil in these type of engine, the oil runs hot, plus only 1/4 the oil so quicker shearing. Makes some logical sense.

That's why I run synthetic oil. It doesn't look all that thin when I drain it. I run the same stuff in the S10, and for the same reason. Oil's cheap, crankshafts are expensive.

 

[jajpko]

I change my oil according to how the engine has been used. If it has 500 miles of really high revs, up and down hills with the fan coming on and the engine is running at high temps all day, I will change the oil.
It is cheap insurance. If I was commuting it would be different.

I think the main part that needs to be changed and or cleaned often, is the air cleaner. If you run until the air filter is black, I think that is much harder on the engine. jmho
I also use filter skins on top of my main filter. This gives me a chance to change a skin and put a new one on when it needs it. I carry spares in my tool bag.

http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/2/9/427/10205/ITEM/MSR-Filter-Skins.aspx

 

[tomatocity]

Whats with statements like "don't worry about it" "ride more worry less" "cost". If we want to worry we will. If we don't want to worry, we won't. If we want to ride less we will. If we want to ride more we will. If we can't afford it we won't. If we can afford it we will.

I don't understand what those statements have to do with asking for information about oil, oil filters, oil level window, tires, valve adjustments, swing arms, windshields, seats, gas mileage, gasoline, rain, heat, OEM heated grips, brake pads, rotors, spokes, rims, handelbars, tankbags, panniers, engine guards, skid plates, fenda extenda's, CJM, CJM switched or not, Reflashed ECU, headers, mufflers, fuse blocks, head lights, driving lights, HID, Halogen, GPS location, riding gear, boots, helmets, gloves,... glad we don't have a doo hickey or a chain to worry about.

For those that have significant others, children, jobs, bosses, businesses, commitments, debts,... are reminded regularly of what they can and can't do or what they should and should not do or what they can and can't afford.

Whew! Think I will take around the park and think about scheduling my ECU for ReFlashing and buying a new companion Yamaha FZ-09 next month.

 

[twinrider]

Think I will take around the park and think about scheduling my ECU for ReFlashing and buying a new companion Yamaha FZ-09 next month.

Once you get the reflash you probably won't want to ride anything but the S10. ::008::

 

[Yamaguy55]

I change my oil according to how the engine has been used. If it has 500 miles of really high revs, up and down hills with the fan coming on and the engine is running at high temps all day, I will change the oil.
It is cheap insurance. If I was commuting it would be different.

I think the main part that needs to be changed and or cleaned often, is the air cleaner. If you run until the air filter is black, I think that is much harder on the engine. jmho
I also use filter skins on top of my main filter. This gives me a chance to change a skin and put a new one on when it needs it. I carry spares in my tool bag.

http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/2/9/427/10205/ITEM/MSR-Filter-Skins.aspx

I have found that since I replaced the standard radiator guard with the Flatland/EE version, my fan seldom comes on. Before that, it came on all of the time. I also had large cooling holes built into my Flatland skid plate to allow cooling air over the sump. Both make a difference in cooling, which helps oil life.
I fell into the Mobil1 MX4T (then) Racing 4T (now) oil years ago when I had my SR500. It had a Megacycle cam, and those engines were notorious about camshaft oil starvation, so much so that aux oil line kits were sold to supply more oil to the head. I had cam/rocker scuffing, changed to Mobil1, problem went away. (FYI: stock SRs/XTs are ok, it is mostly with high lift cams and heavy springs) So I adopted that oil as I can get it easily. Lest this devolve into an oil thread: an associate of mine was involved in vintage racing at Daytona, and he and another guy ran Guzzis. They found that switching over to synthetic lowered their oil and engine temps by a substantial amount, and the engine's reliability rate went way up. They happened to use Mobil1, but I'm sure any quality motorcycle specific synthetic would do. Anything that lowers engine operating temperatures for motorcycles is generally good. In the case of single cylinder four strokes with small oil supplies, even more so. I'm not plugging for any particular oil, but am saying that synthetics really help with these engines.

I pay attention to my air filter, but I've only needed to clean it once. I think the airborne debris around here is minimal enough that it isn't much of a problem. That would be check your filter and adjust accordingly.

 

[Yamaguy55]

I was once told that pavement miles are very hard on bikes designed expressly for the dirt. Reason being dirt bikes are designed for limited traction and the traction intense pavement is damaging to the gearing and other parts subjected to higher forces imposed by more jarring and less spinning.

To be clear, I don't recall who told me that, and I definitely will not vouch for the accuracy of what I was told. I could see how it might be true.

I think it comes from attempting to use MX bikes as street bikes. In the bad old days, they were all two strokes, and really designed (jetted and tuned) for a drag race corner to corner. There was no steady throttle long distance use intended. I had an open class two stroke for a woods bike for years, it wasn't a great idea, but I did have a lot of power. Jetting was a constant pain. But I doubt the difference in traction from pavement to dirt is the problem. The WRR doesn't have a cush drive in the rear hub, it is exactly like the off road Yamahas.

My thoughts exactly. It's a Yamaha designed to do both street and dirt. They're not exactly known for falling apart. I'm pretty sure most people don't baby these things with excessive oil changes. I can assure you, mine won't be treated like it's a delicate race bike.

 

[Dirt_Dad]

Most of the parts have arrived and I continue my quest to make the WR a keeper. Well, actucally...all the parts are here, but some are going back. The tapered bolts I ordered arrived as the same stock WRR bolts, and I mistakenly passed a non O-ring chain part number to the parts guy. A lot of chain maintenance isn't my thing, so I'll need to wait for the replacements to come in before I change the gearing and rear tire.



Today I added the FMF fuel computer and I did the airbox modification. This bike is so easy to work on. Really dead simple...nice.

Results: Bike is much more responsive down low. I can no longer say there is nothing at lower RPMs. It pulls pretty good in the entire RPM range now. There's one flatter spot at a certain throttle settings/RPM, but if you go to near WOT and you don't notice it any longer. I'm pretty sure tweaking the computer will take care of that. Overall it has made the bike more fun to ride. That lack to response was not appealing to me and the computer definitely helped. That said, it still doesn't want to lift the front end without effort. Yes, I can get it to lift off, but still more work than I would like.

May not be the bikes fault. The rear tire is really looking shot.



When I'm on a dirt road it's pretty much just acting like s slick back there and spinning away. Can't blame the bike for the lack of a rear tire. Honestly I'm very interested to see how much this bike improves once I get the new tire installed. It scoots pretty good even with the tire spinning away, looking forward to how it will feel when the back tire actually hooks up. I'd love to think it's going to be arm stretching. Have to wait for the replacement bolts and chain come in, and a break in my work schedule to get them installed.

How is this a street legal tire?



I really don't understand, but happy to give it a shot.


Finally a side note. I rode the WR for about 30 miles today, then immediately got off and jumped on the Tenere. Holy Exxon Valdez, Batman. The S10 felt a little bigger than a Gold Wing. It surprised me how long it took for me to shake off the strange feeling. It just felt so big, so stable, so smooth, so fast. God, I love the Tenere.

 

[Yamaguy55]

Street legal has little to do with tread pattern, mostly just passing DOT requirements. You'll find them very obviously different on the road than the originals. Both noisy and rumbly. (sound and feel) Careful of the front 606: it will sometimes slide sideways on gravel/crappy surfaces. Mine has done it a few times when I first got them, but I could correct it by a foot stab and manhandling it back on track. Still beats the DWs. I ended up running home about 45 miles through a very hard rain last September, and I figured the D606s would be all over the place on the very wet, steep, curvy roads. I had less trouble than with the original Bridgestones on the Tenere. They would slide when wet or cold.

Buying all that stuff is almost as fun as riding. Non-O'ring chain would be a real pain. I'll probably try an X-Ring next, or really go all out and buy Sidewinders. I'm apparently not all that tough on chains: on my FZ, I adjusted it the first time when I put the third rear tire on at 10-12K. The trick is keeping them clean and lubed. I know that sounds stupid, but when I say clean, I mean it looks new, right out of the package clean. I clean after every ride, then relube and ready for next one. I also don't like all the chain snot all over everything, so I clean that off as well.

Have fun. Loctite the sprocket bolts. FYI: the front sprocket nut is a one-time use nut that is staked, change that as well. Can't expect loctite to hold on the front, as the heat looses the loctite. ( I never could figure out why they included Loctite in the kit to add a Heli-coil for stripped spark plug threads: start the engine, it gets soft)

 

[Yamaguy55]

Finally a side note. I rode the WR for about 30 miles today, then immediately got off and jumped on the Tenere. Holy Exxon Valdez, Batman. The S10 felt a little bigger than a Gold Wing. It surprised me how long it took for me to shake off the strange feeling. It just felt so big, so stable, so smooth, so fast. God, I love the Tenere.

It happens to me every time. I'm always looking for Rod Serling to start telling an unseen audience that "this man has just entered the twilight zone"

Maybe that's my problem?! O

 

[Dirt_Dad]

The trick is keeping them clean and lubed. I know that sounds stupid, but when I say clean, I mean it looks new, right out of the package clean. I clean after every ride, then relube and ready for next one. I also don't like all the chain snot all over everything, so I clean that off as well.

I can assure you the next chain will live a dirty life with me. One thing I really don't like is chain maintenance. I'll spray it off with the dupont silicone lub from time to time, but that's about all it will get. My chain will live in envy of your chain.

One thing this bike has taught me is how easy it is to work on this little thing. I've come to realize I haven't worked on a dirt bike in more than 35 years. Sure, I've owned a good number of dirt bikes in the past, but they either rotated through the inventory quickly enough that I didn't need to do anything, or I had a shop do whatever little work I needed done. So far taking a wrench to this bike has always surprised me on how easily accessible and simple it is to do anything I've attempted. Changing fork oil went much quicker than I had expected. I still don't look forward to wrenching, but it is nice to have thing go more quickly rather than much longer than planned.

 

[Yamaguy55]

I can assure you the next chain will live a dirty life with me. One thing I really don't like is chain maintenance. I'll spray it off with the dupont silicone lub from time to time, but that's about all it will get. My chain will live in envy of your chain.

One thing this bike has taught me is how easy it is to work on this little thing. I've come to realize I haven't worked on a dirt bike in more than 35 years. Sure, I've owned a good number of dirt bikes in the past, but they either rotated through the inventory quickly enough that I didn't need to do anything, or I had a shop do whatever little work I needed done. So far taking a wrench to this bike has always surprised me on how easily accessible and simple it is to do anything I've attempted. Changing fork oil went much quicker than I had expected. I still don't look forward to wrenching, but it is nice to have thing go more quickly rather than much longer than planned.

I agree about chain maintenance, but I like replacing them less than cleaning. I've been teased about using a tooth brush to clean the bike, but sooner or later, dirt/debris/water will get in where it shouldn't be if you don't stay ahead of it. I learned that very hard lesson for New year's day of 1970 when I had to shove my CT1 home about three miles with a locked up rear wheel. Water had gotten inside the hub and caused the wheel bearing ball retainers to fall (rust) out, allowing the now loose ball bearings to get between the hub and the spacer. Since then, you can rightly guess that I've not had bearing failures again! ::010:: Once was very much enough!

I also agree on ease of access for work. I really like that you're not forced to twiddle with it every time you start it. I've owned those sorts of bikes in the past, don't need or want them again.

Unlike our western associates, I've not found a driving need to clean the air filter. Much of this has to do with where I ride: not much airborne dirt and dust. So while it is checked, I clean it when it needs it, and not otherwise. Which is one reason that I could get away with a K&N, since it doesn't get that dirty, and I also know not to clean them until they're so caked with crap you can't see the pleats. (K&Ns have always worked for me, but the early ads told you not to clean them until they were almost completely covered with dirt.) While it is true they do pass some dirt when clean, once they pick up a layer of stuff, the filter very well. I can only guess that the accumulated dust acts as a supplemental filtering agent. The above mentioned CT1 had one, I only reoiled it from inside for the 55K miles I had that bike, never cleaned it. It flowed as much air as no filter, probably because even with the larger than stock 26mm carb, the filter still had more surface area than could be considered restrictive. The Filtron and stock filters for that bike we noticeably more restrictive. Same for my later DT3. It couldn't have been too bad about filtration, both bikes lasted quite a while, and were used hard for long periods of time.

They really are great 250s. There are others available, but not one that is such an outstanding combination that these are. It took me over a year to take the plunge and get mine, I'm glad that I did.

 

[trikepilot]

Could not stand it... had to join the party. Fancy has a new stablemate!!

 

[Dirt_Dad]

Congrats, Harrison. Looking forward to hearing how you like it once you get a chance to know it.

I managed to leave work after just 9 hours today. Can't remember the last time that happened. Got home and pulled the rear tire on the WR. Front or back Dunlop 606...I'd rather change ten K60s than either the front or back 606. I'm probably doing something wrong, but man, what a pain in the ass. Getting that valve stem back through the rim is maddening and painful. I still need to cut the chain off later this week and finish the job, but that should be a lot easier than changing the rubber.

 

[mbabc]

Out playing with my wr Sunday. Nothing special, but my riding partner was on his x.
Love both my yamahas.

 

[trikepilot]

Jon - will do. Of course, I go pick up the bike only to come to be slammed the rest of the day and then jump into three shifts in a row. So it will be Friday till I can get on her to check it out. Plus I gotta get by the DMV.

I ran her off the trailer and into the backyard and let her sit while I was consumed with some errands and work. Several hours later I took the time to scope her out a bit more thoroughly and I noticed that the left front fork was weeping oil. The right appears ok. I am not sure if this was a result of boucning during the trailer ride - the bike was leaning a tad to one side when I looked in my rearview mirror. Or is this a legitimate issue with the seal.

I popped off the dustcap, cleaned everything real well and then did the 35mm film trick around the fork seal. I released a bit of oil but no major grit or dirt that I could "see." I compressed the forks multiple times and wiped everything clean. Still at 0530 this AM... no leaks. Not sure if I fixed it or will it start back up with riding. Guess there's only one way to find out and that might mean that some new fork seals are in my future.

Other than that it all appears to be good. Starts quick and idles nice. Chain and sprockets show minimal wear and evidence of someone taking care of them (clean & lube). Can;t wait to get out there on it to see what half the weight of the SuperTen lets me do.

 

[Yamaguy55]

Jon - will do. Of course, I go pick up the bike only to come to be slammed the rest of the day and then jump into three shifts in a row. So it will be Friday till I can get on her to check it out. Plus I gotta get by the DMV.

I ran her off the trailer and into the backyard and let her sit while I was consumed with some errands and work. Several hours later I took the time to scope her out a bit more thoroughly and I noticed that the left front fork was weeping oil. The right appears ok. I am not sure if this was a result of boucning during the trailer ride - the bike was leaning a tad to one side when I looked in my rearview mirror. Or is this a legitimate issue with the seal.

I popped off the dustcap, cleaned everything real well and then did the 35mm film trick around the fork seal. I released a bit of oil but no major grit or dirt that I could "see." I compressed the forks multiple times and wiped everything clean. Still at 0530 this AM... no leaks. Not sure if I fixed it or will it start back up with riding. Guess there's only one way to find out and that might mean that some new fork seals are in my future.

Other than that it all appears to be good. Starts quick and idles nice. Chain and sprockets show minimal wear and evidence of someone taking care of them (clean & lube). Can;t wait to get out there on it to see what half the weight of the SuperTen lets me do.

If you're going to pull the forks apart, I'd suggest doing the gold valve (or equivalent) and respring while you're there. As you'll notice if you have a lot of square-edged hits, the high speed damping needs some assist on both ends. The front spring is too stiff, and the rear too soft. But that's being really nit-picky. It works very well most times/uses right out of the box.

How many miles on your new acquisition? My forks are still oil tight. When it is seal time, they get a proper revalve/spring change along with seals.

As far as what 50% reduction in weight can do: I can easily double the speed on the same trails on my WRR as the Tenere. Which is as it should be. I can easily double ( actually: order of magnitude) the number of riding miles on my Tenere as I can on the WRR. Perhaps you can find off road prowess, nimbleness and long distance comfort in one machine, but I haven't. Sometimes in rock gardens, the WRR is too heavy. Much of that is the suspension.

Dirt Dad: I'd rather swap D606s with two rimlocks per rim than S10 rubber, but I've been swapping knobbies since the 60s. Lots of practice. explains many of my problems

 

[trikepilot]

Holy Crap!!! This WR250R is gonna be fun!!!

So this morning I got to work on my new-to-me WRR. I took off all the plastics and checked everything out to figure out where everything is and do some cleaning. I wired in the rugged mount for my Montana GPS. I then put everything back and mounted my Wolfman Explorer lite that came with the bike. Then I stripped most of the drivetrain apart - all the chain guards and the like - and soaked the chains and sprockets in degreaser. Mutliple cycles of scrub, degrease, wipe off, degrease, scrub, wipe off later and I had a bare chain and sprockets. I lubed everything up and put back on the now cleann chain guides and guards. I checked all the fluids and adjusted the brakes and clutch.

I then took the WRR out for a run over Cotton Top to Gauley Bridge and back. Wow!!! What a difference half the weight of the Super-Ten makes! This bike is gonna be a ton of fun, give me access to all kinds of terrain beyond the scope of my abilities on the Super-Ten, and hopefully teach me alot about riding offroad that I can then transfer to the Super-Ten. Can't wait to get back out there tomorrow. Thinking I might go for some revenge on the Nallen Rd where I had to bail a few weeks ago because the riding just got too tough for my skills on the Super-Ten.