The Safety Weave To Be Seen

Mtbjay

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I weave from a distance when I sense the left turner may jump. However, the PIAA LED fog lights -that I run constantly- provide the most conspicuity, I believe. Their bright white light contrasts with the yellow-ish light of the stock bulbs and their wide-beam are more visible by drivers approaching from the side roads.

I'm convinced it's the best $300 I've ever spent on safety.
 

Cycledude

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I believe the weave can be a pretty effective attention getter and so can flashing the headlight, I have a friend that's a very safe and experienced driver and he uses the weave often.
Sometimes folks are just plain not paying attention to what they should be and wind up making very bad mistakes. I've had some very close calls with left turners and folks just not yielding when their supposed to but so far thankfully nothing real bad has happened. Please be a little extra careful out there everyone.
 

EricV

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chromax said:
Have you guys ever seen these? They seem like a good idea they were invented by a honeywell engineer check them out here

http://www.getlightningstrike.com/
The error there is their statement. "It's all about the visibility" That is fantasy. The biggest single lie in motorcycling is conspicuity. The simple truth is that is doesn't matter if they see you or not. Seeing you does not preclude them doing something stupid that will endanger or kill you.

The only person responsible for your safety is YOU. Ride like that, you will survive to ride another day. Fool yourself into believing that if they see you it will help, and it's only a matter of time and bad luck before you have an accident where someone that 'saw you' still did something that caused you to be in a position where you couldn't recover/react/remove yourself from the danger.
 

bob dirt

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I ride with my high beams on during the day. I don't weave but I'm ready for him to cut me off. I also point like snake bitten.
I sit here typing left handed sitting in my recliner with my left leg elevated and my right arm in a cast. I got cut off passing on the left on a dirt road. The key is to make sure "they" see you...These things are dangerous!
 

worncog

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Good discussion with multiple points of information. The core element of this discussion is Motion Camouflage. You are in fact nearly invisible entering most intersections. Lights, wiggling, zigzagging, high beams...all good methods to increase visibility.

http://motoress.com/ride/motion-camouflage-riding-your-motorcycle/

After being run over a few years ago, I made it a point to read and understand the dynamic of the situation. YOU are responsible for your own survival out there. Lane position entering intersections is critical, especially with respect to vehicles traveling the same direction near you. Head on drivers tend to focus on the big problem presented before them, not the small problem, which is you.

Safe travels.
 

EricV

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bob dirt said:
I ride with my high beams on during the day. I don't weave but I'm ready for him to cut me off. I also point like snake bitten.
I sit here typing left handed sitting in my recliner with my left leg elevated and my right arm in a cast. I got cut off passing on the left on a dirt road. The key is to make sure "they" see you...These things are dangerous!
I hope you heal well and fully. But please stop riding with your high beam on. That makes it harder for oncoming traffic to judge your distance. You are not helping them see you. What you are doing is giving them just a bright point of light that does not allow them to see the bike well. They can't judge your distance very well when the light diminishes the amount of motorcycle they can see. And some will subconsciously assume you are farther away, not closer, because they can't see much of the vehicle, regardless of how bright the light is. Point of fact, it doesn't matter if they see you. You are small and easy to kill, w/o posing any threat to their safety inside the steel cage. And just because they see you, doesn't mean they won't do something stupid anyway. You are putting yourself at greater risk by running your high beams all the time.

It's very foolish to put responsibility on others for our safety. I don't care if anyone sees me. It's my responsibility to see THEM. It's my responsibility to be prepared for anything they do, regardless of how odd, unusual or contrary to common sense or laws that it may be. It's my responsibility to keep myself alive. It's your responsibility to keep yourself alive. Why would you trust a total stranger you have never met with your LIFE?

I have watched a driver pull out in front of a fire truck, with strobes, lights, siren and horn blaring. She pulled immediately in front of the truck at an intersection and the fire truck T-boned her. Thankfully at low speed. She got out of the car screaming "I didn't see you!" over and over. If she couldn't 'see' the 30 ton bright red fire truck with all it's strobes going, siren blaring, horn honking, what chance do you think a mere motorcycle has?
 
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Sierra1

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The following does not represent the opinion(s) of everybody: I DO ride with my Tenere lights on high; I have noticed a marked decrease in cars pulling out in front of me. I DO NOT do any kind of weave; could send the wrong signal. I DO ride as if I'm invisible; and, I'm somewhat ashamed to say, do point at a driver (but it's not with the "pointy" finger) ???
 

Madhatter

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I weave , not all the time , sometimes there are no cars around. saw a sport bike rider do a weave as he was approaching a traffic light, I noticed him right away.... I do the weave when being followed by cars( they may have their heads down looking at cell phones) just to get their attention... and when stopped I leave at least one full car length between me and the car in front ( not going to be the baloney in that sandwich . ) of me , and I know that bothers the tailgaters, so what . at a stop if some one stops to close to me , I start backing up , not going to bump him just let him no he is to close...... you do all you can , proactive as much as possible . when car drivers are good I give them a wave of thanks...
 

Checkswrecks

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There are multiple ways to attract the attention of the monkey brain and there are pros & cons to each.


1. Relative movement. Our eyes were meant to follow targets moving against a background and then after recognizing what the target is our brains are pretty good at solving for size and speed. Crossing from one side to another in front of somebody is hard to miss. Coming head-on gives virtually no relative movement, so a lot of fire trucks in our area have lights which physically move in a big circle on the fronts of the trucks, in addition to all the flashing lights. The statistics show they have less accidents. The SMIDSY weave can be a form of relative movement. Unfortunately, it can also be insufficient in a crowded environment to stick out. It also can confuse drivers while taking some of the rider's attention when he should be otherwise preparing or focused on his environment and what he's doing. Pros and cons.


2. Contrast of standing out against a background. This is turning on the high beam and it works where the background doesn't already have numerous high contrast targets. For example, a headlight on a motorcycle with a simple green leafy background. It is much less successful when in the city with all the lights and perhaps some sun reflection. The other thing it does not do well is give distance information to the observer, which is what Eric was talking about.


3. Conspicuity angle is essentially the width or height of the target. Basically, you notice a bigger target because it is wider across your field of vision. A lot of Harleys have this going for them, because they mount a couple of larger lights (also adding contrast) far apart, making them look bigger. Same with bikes which have a pair of lights to the left and right of the front wheel, creating a large triangle with the headlight. The other benefit to this is that changes in the angle are easier to perceive, which provides range info to the observer when you are coming head-on. The downside is the physical space on the bike for where to mount the lights.


4. Recognition. Again, we all have monkey brains, meaning that we are programmed to recognize and avoid the face of a lion waiting for us. There was a Japanese study some years ago, in which motorcycle "faces" were judged to be animal-like or not and observers were much better at spotting the fronts of motorcycles which looked like faces. I'm not about to paint the face of Mufassa the Lion King on the front of my bike, it's just an interesting bit of trivia.


Obviously, none of these are 100%, we all need to stay on our toes, ride as if we aren't seen, and play all the other tricks, yada, yada, yada. But there ARE numerous times when we are putting our lives in the hands of strangers. When I was younger, a guy coming the other way suddenly decided to turn left in front of me, which luckily only put me in the hospital for a night. We constantly pass traffic which can pull in front of us from a side street when we have no reaction time. All we can do is try to reduce our risks as best as possible.
 

EricV

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Checkswrecks said:
All we can do is try to reduce our risks as best as possible.
And PRACTICE avoidance manuvers, at both slow and higher speeds.
 

Dogdaze

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Hope for the best and expect the worst, that's the reality of motorcycle riding, until the day when they either take every motorcycle off the roads or make it compulsory for those that wish to drive that they must spend a year on a m/c, the great unwashed will never grasp the fact of how vulnerable m/c riders are.
 

snakebitten

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Popping wheelies usually gets folks attention. (It's not really a Tenere thing, of course)

Can't figure out why so few people react positively to it though. ::013::
When someone else does it, rarely around me sadly, I get a big grin.

WreckerChecker has far more politically correct and socially acceptable methods for recognition. But they're so stiff and boring. ::26::
 

Checkswrecks

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Once again illustrating why I like to hang with Snake!
::003::
 

SilverBullet

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Xclimation said:
... Maybe it's just here in Dallas/Fort Worth?
... I've heard of people being ticketed for just standing on their foot pegs when going on obstacles such as train tracks.
Texas DPS operators manual advises you to stand on the pegs. I keep a pdf copy on my phone to show any TX LEO that stops me for standing. First thing I'll state if pulled over is I encountered potholes in the surface that required it. Good luck trying to find a 100 yard long stretch of pavement anywhere in Texas without potholes.




See bottom right "rise slightly"




Even a drawing in handbook of rider up on the pegs.

 

Sierra1

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Xclimation said:
....I've heard of people being ticketed for just standing on their foot pegs....

SOME people don't tell you the whole story, or change it to curry sympathy. They may HAVE been just standing on their foot pegs....with the front wheel pointing toward the sky. SilverBullet is right, standing on the pegs as they go over obstacles is what they teach.
 

snakebitten

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Checkswrecks said:
Once again illustrating why I like to hang with Snake!
::003::
Well, you've been BANNED! So that's progress.
So now let's see if we can get ya arrested. I'm sure my Sherriff Deputy son can get us both out in a timely manner.

Problem is, around here even if you and I got to cutting up on one wheel on our licensed KTMs, we'd indeed get pulled over,...but once we remove our helmets and reveal we're a couple of dinosaurs pretending to be hooligans.....well, they'll probably just tell us to go home.
 

SilverBullet

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snakebitten said:
,...but once we remove our helmets and reveal we're a couple of dinosaurs pretending to be hooligans.....well, they'll probably just tell us to go home.
..and maybe tell you next time stop your drinking at two cans...that third can of Ensure gets the adreneline pumping too fast. Lol

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Checkswrecks

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snakebitten said:
Well, you've been BANNED! So that's progress.
So now let's see if we can get ya arrested. I'm sure my Sherriff Deputy son can get us both out in a timely manner.

Problem is, around here even if you and I got to cutting up on one wheel on our licensed KTMs, we'd indeed get pulled over,...but once we remove our helmets and reveal we're a couple of dinosaurs pretending to be hooligans.....well, they'll probably ask for the names of our kids, to ask them to come drive us home for our naps.

Fixt it fer you.
 

snakebitten

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SilverBullet said:
..and maybe tell you next time stop your drinking at two cans...that third can of Ensure gets the adreneline pumping too fast. Lol

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I DO admit to doing my own grocery shopping these days. Therefore, I actually know what aisle that stuff is merchandised on.
AND, I do admit that I have stopped the basket and looked at it a couple of times discerning, contemplating........

But, I am happy to report I still do not have a clue what that stuff tastes like. And please, nobody give me a convincing argument that I would prosper from doing so. I'm just not ready yet.
(I also continue to throw all ARRP mail into the trash without opening it)

I know my days are numbered for both. The day I'm reading my AARP mail while sipping on Ensure, I'll do a selfie and rat myself out here.
 
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