The next chapter...KTM Super Adventure S

[Dirt_Dad]

It's the stator.

KTM is on back order until 9/10.

My home KTM dealer jumped into action. got the staff working on my issues as soon as I contacted the GM...which was the first call I made when the bike failed. The Service Manager told me what was likely happening (he was right),. It was their Parts Manager who identified a stator available in NH.

The dealer here also sprung into action trying to identify parts. They contacted KTM and explained what way going on.

When the tech said it was a stator, they told me there had been no word from KTM, so go with the part identified by my dealer. I called and ordered for express shipping. They said UPS would have it there Friday.

2 hours later the local dealer sent me a note saying KTM just express shipped a stator without ever calling the dealership before doing it. It should be here tomorrow. So I've gone from no parts available, to having 2 stators on the way.

I will have them install the first one that shows up...which is expected to be the OEM one. I'll have the other one shipped home where I will hold on to it to make sure I will never have a stator issue again.

Back on the road...soon.

 

[Jlq1969]

the question should be….why does a stator burn?….There is another post about a stator burnt on an S10… the stator are designed to work and generate the power that can only generate, can’t generate more….is it a mechanical failure?…a failure due to temperature?….perhaps it is understandable that a rectifier/regulator fails, because it is the one that receives everything that the stator sends it and he has to rectify and regulate all that…..Maybe the problem with the stator is temperature and the ambient temperature??

 

[Dirt_Dad]

I wonder if I contributed to it. I ride all year, including into freezing temps. Which means high heated grips, high seat heat, heated vest, GPS. I was reading high demand for power does contribute to heating a stator and can lead to an early failure.

If I were a fair weather rider this might never have happened???

I was talking to an old V-Strom buddy (firedog) last night. He reminded me that he and many others experienced the same failures in their Stroms. So this is not an unheard of problem for adventure bikes. Those bikes get used hard. I guess I'm guilty of doing more than just riding to church on Sunday morning.

 

[Sierra1]

I don't know. I used the grip heaters on the RT and ST1300 a LOT. Never lost a stator in either bike. Ironically, the only bike that burned up a stator was the KZ, which didn't have grip heaters.

 

[Checkswrecks]

Motorcycle stators are historically a weak point and have been forever, especially if regularly being subjected to high load. I found this in the 1290 thread on ADV:

"The alternator is 450 watts to power all factory components including heated seats and grips as well as recharging the battery after it's pumped the starter motor. With heated grips and seats on full, there is about 180 watts available for non-factory add ons. With grips and seats off there is about 300 watts available. You could draw more for a short time but there is a risk the alternator output will be insufficient to keep the battery charged. Both the ACC1 and ACC2 circuits can provide 10A, but you can not draw 20A continuously as well as having heated grips and seats on, without the battery going flat."

First, the output has to run the ignition, headlights, etc. Your vest will draw another 5 amps so 60-ish watts (max) and the 3 amp GPS will be 36W, combining to a bit under 100W of the 80 available. Then take off for the grips.

What's not said though is that this 450W output is at MAX output and we generally don't ride at high revs. That means the stator windings will be hot in trying to keep up with the load, which also puts a load on the plugs between the stator and regulator. And your bike is not new anymore so there may be a little resistance in those connections, so have them look at the wires going into each plug for evidence of browning. When home consider proactively replacing the regulator and using a little dielectric grease in the plugs to combat corrosion.

fwiw - The Super Tenere has a 600W system, the GS1250 has 510, V85TT is 430W.

 

[Sierra1]

Yeah, the KZ was recommended to be ridden at 3k rpms or more. If you didn't, riding around all day with the headlight on would kill the battery. The Beemer and Honda didn't have any rpm recommendations. Which told me that the Kawi charging system was trash.

 

[Jlq1969]

The Super Tenere has a 600W system, the GS1250 has 510, V85TT is 430W

probably, the halogen lights of 2010 would need more W (120/130W)...

 

[Jlq1969]

¡¡¡“READY TO RACE” !!! (at day and in summer).

the fine print is never read by anyone

 

[Dirt_Dad]

Motorcycle stators are historically a weak point and have been forever, especially if regularly being subjected to high load. I found this in the 1290 thread on ADV:

"The alternator is 450 watts to power all factory components including heated seats and grips as well as recharging the battery after it's pumped the starter motor. With heated grips and seats on full, there is about 180 watts available for non-factory add ons. With grips and seats off there is about 300 watts available. You could draw more for a short time but there is a risk the alternator output will be insufficient to keep the battery charged. Both the ACC1 and ACC2 circuits can provide 10A, but you can not draw 20A continuously as well as having heated grips and seats on, without the battery going flat."

First, the output has to run the ignition, headlights, etc. Your vest will draw another 5 amps so 60-ish watts (max) and the 3 amp GPS will be 36W, combining to a bit under 100W of the 80 available. Then take off for the grips.

What's not said though is that this 450W output is at MAX output and we generally don't ride at high revs. That means the stator windings will be hot in trying to keep up with the load, which also puts a load on the plugs between the stator and regulator. And your bike is not new anymore so there may be a little resistance in those connections, so have them look at the wires going into each plug for evidence of browning. When home consider proactively replacing the regulator and using a little dielectric grease in the plugs to combat corrosion.

fwiw - The Super Tenere has a 600W system, the GS1250 has 510, V85TT is 430W.

Good information...thanks.

Mechanic told me it was clearly fried in one winding, and a second one heading the same direction. Guess I used it to the max.

Back rolling.

Turns out KTM Corporate, took a new bike out of the a crate, removed the stator and got it to the dealship early this morning.

Don't know how I could ask for more.

You think I bled Orange before...

When I was first told parts on backorder not due for weeks I have to consider all my options. Sitting there in the dealership, looking at at new 2023 SAS, seeing the price, calculating the exchange rate, looking up import information...I'll admit it was a more realistic option than I ever would have guessed.

I'm in no hurry to get rid of my much loved 2020. But if push came to shove, it was something I had to at least entertain.

 

[Dirt_Dad]

Just completed a 3,700 mile ride with the bike. The SAS, which has always been free of true mechanical issues had a couple of surprises for me on this trip. Good or bad, I've never held anything back regarding what the SAS does, so I finally have some real mechanical items to report.

My initial assessment of a failing battery cost me nearly $400 to replace on the road. This ultimately turned out to be a fried stator. KTM kicked butt on getting me replacement when only back order units appeared in the system with a delivery date shown as weeks in the future.

While taking a joy ride around the Adirondacks this past Wednesday, the bike started chocking hard above 7200rpm. It felt like a 2-stoke with a severely fouled plug. Back-off the throttle and everything was fine. More throttle, bike won't go. I had reasons to suspect (don't ask) it could have been water in the fuel tank. I thought this was probably confirmation of that moisture. The bike was rebooted over a 15 minute stop, and I never felt the issue again that day. Thursday, bike is riding fine. In the cooler temps I took it up to over 7200 a few times with no issue. After heating up to over 85 degrees F outside, DM and I are merging onto a highway and wanted to quickly get around a vehicle. I grab a handful of throttle and DM follows. The bike starts sputtering and I hear DM on the bluetooth "enthusiastically" encouraging me to "GO!" I can't. Same reason.

Pull over to reboot the bike again and this appears.

All occurrences of this issue have been at or above 84 degrees. I've always said the bike has more power below 85 degrees, than above those temps. You really can notice it when pushing the bike hard. 7200 rpm is not an acceptable cutoff when riding the SAS with its 10K redline. This is not a bike you short-shift.

Talking to my tech today, he does think it's likely to be a fuel pump issue. The higher RPMs are calling for more fuel than it can deliver. He'll have some diagnostics to make sure, but it's likely I'm getting a new pump. He did not think the blown stator would have been a contributor to the fuel pump issue.

Obviously I'm not thrilled with the situation, but I will say that so far, none of the issues encountered have rendered the bike unrideable. I still managed to get the 600+ miles home once the fuel pump issue surfaced. The stator would eventually get the battery up to the low-mid 13 volt level. I was able to ride it almost 200 miles to get to a dealer and could have gone farther is needed.

Does this have me rethinking my assessment of the bike...?

Not in the slightest. The SAS has entertained me, thrilled me, excited me more than any other bike I've ever owned. It's not even close. I would prefer not to be experiencing these issues or spending money on repairs, but the satisfaction I get from riding this beast is still the most rewarding experience on two wheels I'm capable of imagining.

I've scheduled my valve check, fork oil change, and likely fuel pump replacement for later this month. The SAS remains secure in my stable for the foreseeable future. I know what I've got, and I'm not giving it up.

 

[Dirt_Dad]

Feels like I've gone full circle.

I had the big V-Strom before getting all those Super Teneres...and now there's a big Strom in the garage again. Who would have guessed it?

Actually, it's only visiting.

Took the SAS in for the 36K mile service. Along with the valve check of that service, also added to the list, fork oil change, new chain and sprocket, and figure out what's happening with my fuel pump. Service guy told me it would likely take more than a day...now more than two days. I'll pick it up next week.

On the way to the dealership, I spun it up to about 9,200RPM multiple times to see if I could get the stutter to happen again. It was 56 degrees out, and the bike ran perfectly. No issues at all.

During the value check, they did find a lot of carbon on the valves. They ran a flush through the fuel system. I'm told that usually has good results. Overall, pretty surprised at the carbon build up. The engine gets a significant amount of high RPM riding. It is routinely operated up to 6/7/8K+ RPMs, and with MTC and slipper clutch, I downshift in ways I could never get away with on a normal bike, leaving me at high RPMs on the way down, too. Not sure what more I could do to keep the carbon away.

Early reports are, the fuel pump is bench testing within expected specs. All my experiences with the problem were at or above 84 degrees OAT. I've always said, this bike has less power above 84 degrees. Is that a different computer mapping? They want to talk it over with KTM and possibly do more testing. Hook up some type of meter and ride until the pump is hot to see if they can find anything wrong. So far, it doesn't seem like replacing a $500 fuel pump is going to fix the issue.

...thinking about the RPMs. I do run it up high going through the speed shifter getting up to speed, but don't maintain it for long because I need to avoid jail. So the bulk of the time is spent between 5.5-7K. Wonder if that could contribute to it...I'll have to ask.

 

[Jlq1969]

Siempre he dicho que la bicicleta tiene más potencia por debajo de los 85 grados que por encima de esas temperaturas

84/85 F is not a very high temperature…..and try a less restrictive air filter? or a less restrictive muffler?….and the temperature in the fuel tank?…can this temperature make fail the fuel pump?…

 

[Sierra1]

He'd be in trouble if he lived in Texas. Starting the end of May, our lows stay above 80°. A couple of weeks ago, we finally dropped into the upper 70°s, but it was 101° yesterday, and forecast for the same today.

 

[Dirt_Dad]

I wouldn't say it's a dramatically different power level above vs below 85 degrees, but it's enough to notice. Still crazy powerful, but a bit of the snap is missing at the higher RPMs.

For those who fly, it's comparable to the difference felt taking off on a cool day vs a warm day.

 

[Jlq1969]

I wouldn't say it's a dramatically different power level above vs below 85 degrees, but it's enough to notice. Still crazy powerful, but a bit of the snap is missing at the higher RPMs.

For those who fly, it's comparable to the difference felt taking off on a cool day vs a warm day.

I think “maybe” you are feeling in your hands, the restriction to 160HP… “I think”, that the adv, shares camshafts and intake, with the 180HP super duke….If you look in the spare parts market, the camshafts share the same code...

 

[HeliMark]

One thought, obviously not a vapor lock issue, but a fuel line near the engine, enough that the line is getting too hot and causing issues?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Dirt_Dad]

I guess it could be a possibility. Seems like it would have shown up before 35K miles. I've ridden enough in high 90s and even over 100 degrees and never experienced it.

There were a few times, as recent as two days earlier, where I was forced to buy 87 octane gas while in Canada. I would think that was 2 or 3 fuel fill-ups before the occurance. I generally tried to limit the amount of low octane put in to get me far enough to a not too distant fuel station down the road.

 

[Sierra1]

. . . . For those who fly, it's comparable to the difference felt taking off on a cool day vs a warm day.

Could it be just that simple? I mean, even the Tenere acts different when it's cool v. warm. A couple of weeks ago our high was in the 80s for a change. I could feel that she had more "snap" than the week before.

 

[Eville Rich]

I'm not sure if it was this thread or one of the ADV threads, but I did a bit of reading around the "single cylinder" at startup issue. There seemed to be something tied to getting the fuel system cleaned out of manufacturing residue that some thought made a difference. Like a full-on dealer fuel system flush thing. It sounded extensive/expensive and not just "drop in a bottle of Techron" sort of service. But I'm curious if that might be something that could cause an issue w/ the fuel pump (manufacturing residue).

I've got no idea, obviously. Just made we wonder. I've been going down KTM/Husky rabbit holes lately.

Eville Rich
2016 S10

 

[Dirt_Dad]

Could it be just that simple? I mean, even the Tenere acts different when it's cool v. warm. A couple of weeks ago our high was in the 80s for a change. I could feel that she had more "snap" than the week before.

I suspect the noticeable power dip may be that simple. Naturally aspirated engines perform better with cooler, dense air vs hot and moist (humid) air. My observation with the SAS you feel it starting to happen around 85 degrees.

Why the new stutter kicks in at that temp is the thing I need to have addressed.