Steer tube chatter... CHECK YOURS !

[Koinz]

You'd do well to re-read the manual my friend.

And tightening the steering stem nut above the top clamp won't do anything to achieve proper steering bearing torque.

Your probably right that it may not achieve the proper steering bearing torque but it did eliminate the rattle. Looks like Tabasco also confirmed it. My top nut was finger loose, so I retorqued it to specs. (I read the manual as well). I will go through the full procedure of re-adjusting the steering head but I would rather be riding right now and will take care of that in the off season. ::26:: ;D

 

[stevepsd]

Your probably right that it may not achieve the proper steering bearing torque but it did eliminate the rattle. Looks like Tabasco also confirmed it. My top nut was finger loose, so I retorqued it to specs. (I read the manual as well). I will go through the full procedure of re-adjusting the steering head but I would rather be riding right now and will take care of that in the off season. ::26:: ;D

If your steering stem bearing are loose you had better not put this off, as this is a very dangerous condition. Just sayin'

 

[Aussie_TDM]

I think most people are correct on this topic. But this "issue" really has two answers. And for people that don't know, we are all agreeing about two situations and both are correct.. In most cases like this, its the two jam nuts under the top triple tree that come loose and the bearings are 'rocking' in there seats. Normally this is what makes the noise and the situation what it is. In this case you take the top triple tree off, you fallow the service manual, you add the correct TQ to each nut, Etc. (this is all assuming that the two nuts have come loose and the bearings are really 'loose'... A few days ago I thought this is what I was going to need to perform to fix the issue. Many cases in my life when I have felt and heard the noise I heard, I would have definitely thought this is what I was going to need to do to fix the issue...
Being that the bike is new, I decided to TQ just the triple tree down and see what that does. I checked the free play in the forks / Triple tree and that was OK. I TQ the top nut down and the problems is fixed.... This is the first time I have experienced a loose triple tree that was as loud as loose steer tube bearings. Sounds the same, but not the same. So on this bike, in this case there are two possibilities of the 'popping'.. It could be only the top nut (more than likely)..... Or it could be the traditional loose steer tube bearings. Being that these bikes are so new, I would "think" that anyone that experiences this 'popping' has a loose top triple tree nut, and probably not the two jam nuts under the top triple tree. If you run into any issues you should have Yamaha check it out, or check it out yourself so you can fix one or the other... ::008::

+1 Mine had no movement or play in the steering head bearings but the condition / rattle totally eminated from the loose nut on the upper tripple clamp - I would guess that the centre nut was not properly torqued at the factory and over time the fork tubes have moved slightly up allowing the rattle between the steering stem and top clamp --- just my theory. ::017::

 

[protondecay123]

Mine was loose. It was on Stronger than hand tight. Took it off, put on some "purple" loctite. Now the "rattle" is gone. Jaxon thanks for your help. ::026::

 

[20valves]

I am sure you boys are loosening your fork tube clamp bolts during your steering stem nut tightening, right? The only reason I would suggest doing the full steering bearing routine is that it made such a nice difference for my bike (~7K miles). Suspension works better, steering feel improves, restores that solid chassis feeling on road and off. Of course YMMV but this has always been one of the "must do" things like brakes, tire pressure

Anyway, good topic and it sounds like everyone's on top of it. ::26::

 

[~TABASCO~]

I am sure you boys are loosening your fork tube clamp bolts during your steering stem nut tightening, right? The only reason I would suggest doing the full steering bearing routine is that it made such a nice difference for my bike (~7K miles). Suspension works better, steering feel improves, restores that solid chassis feeling on road and off. Of course YMMV but this has always been one of the "must do" things like brakes, tire pressure

Anyway, good topic and it sounds like everyone's on top of it. ::26::

Fork tube clamps.... CHECK... There might only be a few hundred thousands difference but I think its important!

 

[Firefight911]

I am sure you boys are loosening your fork tube clamp bolts during your steering stem nut tightening, right? The only reason I would suggest doing the full steering bearing routine is that it made such a nice difference for my bike (~7K miles). Suspension works better, steering feel improves, restores that solid chassis feeling on road and off. Of course YMMV but this has always been one of the "must do" things like brakes, tire pressure

Anyway, good topic and it sounds like everyone's on top of it. ::26::

Excellent reminder and SO VERY TRUE!!!!! Any deflection of the forks from their natural position creates stiction which directly affects suspension.

 

[imrubicon]

Mine is tighter than hand tight and maybe this weekend Ill use a Torque to check it right .
Yes I know all the world may end if not perfect and second.
I like to live on the edge , I also used my crush washer over again as I forgot them at the shop . I also use other than Yamaha oil blend Oh my.
I might even speed if it cools and I go for a ride tonight like 45 in a 40
We sure do seem to have a lot of engineers riding these bikes ::008::

 

[protondecay123]

LOL! You better be careful Rubicon, sounds like your getting way out of line!

 

[20valves]

We sure do seem to have a lot of engineers riding these bikes ::008::

And your contribution is.....what?

Do we not have and "asshat" icon on this forum?

 

[Dirt_Dad]

Jaxon, thanks for the warning on this one. This tread caused me to have a knowledgeable mechanic take a look and I took both S10s to dealership today. My wife's with 13K miles was all the way down to around 15lbs of torque. My bike with only 6K miles was also loose, but not as much as hers. Both were torqued to specs. The mechanic said every bike he's checked has been loose and he's putting it on the routine check list from now on. We both noticed a significant difference on the ride home.

 

[GM4X4]

Hi,

I'm new to adjusting the steering head and with anything I attempt to do I Google it and check youtube. I found this video for a vmax steering head adjustment: How to set the steering head bearings Yamaha Vmax.avi
Would this be similar to the procedure one would use to quickly adjust the steering head on a S10 as well? If not are there better video/picture tutorials on how to do this?

I just added this pic from the manual. This might be a simple qestion but what is the 1st and 2nd torque spec and how do you wrench this? Is this for the 1st and 2nd bolts? If you wrench this the way the guy in the video does I guess it not required a torque spec to be perfect....

 

[~TABASCO~]

Jaxon, thanks for the warning on this one. This tread caused me to have a knowledgeable mechanic take a look and I took both S10s to dealership today. My wife's with 13K miles was all the way down to around 15lbs of torque. My bike with only 6K miles was also loose, but not as much as hers. Both were torqued to specs. The mechanic said every bike he's checked has been loose and he's putting it on the routine check list from now on. We both noticed a significant difference on the ride home.

No joke.. Glad ya got it fixed up.. I'm going to keep an eye on mine long term and before trips just to double check.. I put a little blue lock tight on the treads so it should stay snug.. ::008::

 

[HoebSTer]

Hi,
Would this be similar to the procedure one would use to quickly adjust the steering head on a S10 as well? If not are there better video/picture tutorials on how to do this?
I just added this pic from the manual. This might be a simple qestion but what is the 1st and 2nd torque spec and how do you wrench this? Is this for the 1st and 2nd bolts? If you wrench this the way the guy in the video does I guess it not required a torque spec to be perfect....

ON the manual pic you posted, where it says 1st and 2nd, both of these toque values are for the lower spanner nut. Tighten the lower spanner nut to the higher torque, loosen it, then re-torgue it to 13ft lbs. You then install the oring that goes on between the upper and lower spanner nut. Then install the upper spanner nut and tighten to just finger tight while lining up the grooves so the lock washer can then be installed. Then install the top clamp and torque the nut down to 94ft lbs.

Hope this helps!!

 

[GM4X4]

ON the manual pic you posted, where it says 1st and 2nd, both of these toque values are for the lower spanner nut. Tighten the lower spanner nut to the higher torque, loosen it, then re-torgue it to 13ft lbs. You then install the oring that goes on between the upper and lower spanner nut. Then install the upper spanner nut and tighten to just finger tight while lining up the grooves so the lock washer can then be installed. Then install the top clamp and torque the nut down to 94ft lbs.

Hope this helps!!

Thanks for the info. I'm guessing that the higher value is to push down the steering bearings and then loosen and 2nd value is to keep in place.
94ft lbs is a lot, is this where the loose steering comes from? or a combination of the tightening the spanner nuts and top clamp nut to get the loose steering issues resolved?

 

[Epping]

I just added this pic from the manual. This might be a simple question but what is the 1st and 2nd torque spec and how do you wrench this? Is this for the 1st and 2nd bolts? If you wrench this the way the guy in the video does I guess it not required a torque spec to be perfect....

I'm feeling a bit guilty for not updating my resolution, but no damage as my result was the same as all above. Top nut was finger tight. Torqued and all the noises have disappeared. My mates bike (VIN 0009 original Aussie test bike owned by Yamaha Australia) was parked next to me. I reached over and spun the top nut off. Should have seen his face. True story.
An interesting point is the rubber washer between the two steering steering stem lock nuts. As most bikes use these two nuts to lock together, it makes it difficult to get correct load because lower nut pushes the shaft up but the lock nut pushes that nut down, increasing the bearing tension by the play in the threads. By using the rubber washer, the initial bearing preload is maintained so long as the top locknut is torqued less than the bottom nut. Torquing the triple clamp will also have nil effect on the bearing preload for the same reason as the clamp only applies load to the top nut. Sorry, long winded I know but I find these engineering issues interesting.

 

[donaldb]

South Africa Yamaha just did a recall on all super tens for the top steering nut.

The techs were instructed to tighten with blue loctite.

Originally the bike comes with no loctite, so hopefully this is a permanent fix, but, yes, keep an eye on it, due to its job function.

PS: mine had worked its way loose before the recall, and was done with loctite before the recall. Been fine since.

Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2

 

[GM4X4]

I'm feeling a bit guilty for not updating my resolution, but no damage as my result was the same as all above. Top nut was finger tight. Torqued and all the noises have disappeared. My mates bike (VIN 0009 original Aussie test bike owned by Yamaha Australia) was parked next to me. I reached over and spun the top nut off. Should have seen his face. True story.
An interesting point is the rubber washer between the two steering steering stem lock nuts. As most bikes use these two nuts to lock together, it makes it difficult to get correct load because lower nut pushes the shaft up but the lock nut pushes that nut down, increasing the bearing tension by the play in the threads. By using the rubber washer, the initial bearing preload is maintained so long as the top locknut is torqued less than the bottom nut. Torquing the triple clamp will also have nil effect on the bearing preload for the same reason as the clamp only applies load to the top nut. Sorry, long winded I know but I find these engineering issues interesting.

Awsome!
Interesting for sure. I would not thought of that. I have not had time to let what you said sink in but have a few questions.
But if, "Torquing the triple clamp will also have nil effect on the bearing preload for the same reason as the clamp only applies load to the top nut" then how could you, "Torqued and all the noises have disappeared."?
Are you saying the steering stem nuts don't need to be touched, "By using the rubber washer, the initial bearing preload is maintained so long as the top locknut is torqued less than the bottom nut. "? If so then the top nut is the only one that should need adjusting/torque?


Thanks

 

[Epping]

But if, "Torquing the triple clamp will also have nil effect on the bearing preload for the same reason as the clamp only applies load to the top nut" then how could you, "Torqued and all the noises have disappeared."?
Are you saying the steering stem nuts don't need to be touched, "By using the rubber washer, the initial bearing preload is maintained so long as the top locknut is torqued less than the bottom nut. "? If so then the top nut is the only one that should need adjusting/torque?

Sorry I was a bit vague. My noise was not the bearings inside the steering headstock but the top triple clamp rattling on the shaft. I checked the bearing adjustment nut below the clamp. It was adjusted correctly. I believe this is the same scenario others experienced.

 

[GM4X4]

Sorry I was a bit vague. My noise was not the bearings inside the steering headstock but the top triple clamp rattling on the shaft. I checked the bearing adjustment nut below the clamp. It was adjusted correctly. I believe this is the same scenario others experienced.

No worries. Thanks for your reply and info . I was thinking this because I could not understand how the steering stem nuts would loosen vs the top nut on the triple clamp and from your earlier post.