steep downhill, ABS, observation+question

dehmlow

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with all the talk about ABS and off-road (from it works fine with ABS to you HAVE to turn it off) .... I had my own first hand experience... coming around a corner on a 4-wheel 2 track, semi rutted road, there came a fairly steep (to me) and fairly long (maybe 50 yds) hill. As it came into view immediately after a corner and already on an incline, it was no place to stop and contemplate. (oh crap!) going up the hill was no problem, gave a little gas and the bike just tractored up, spun a little but stayed very stable (traction control off, BW tires at 26/28psi, T-mode) T-mode, by the way, seemed much smoother off-road with less twitchiness, especially when handlebars get pulled in a rut and you accidentally hit the throttle!! Anyway, up hill no problem...

(side note: I've went down a couple less steep hills and YES, for me the ABS worked ok, but did allow me to get going faster than I was comfortable with)

of course, looking back down was another story!! I've went up some steep hills on my other bikes and when coming down, when especially difficult, have sometimes shut the bike off, left in 1st gear and walked it down, using the clutch lever as a back brake along with the front brake. works fairly well in these later years when trying to ride a little below my skill level, (which for some odd reason peaked out years ago!) along with nursing some injuries and trying to ride for more long term pleasure than short term adrenaline! ... that's a warning sign for someone! ha!

So, as it turned out, we had to come back down this road as it didn't connect to make a loop. At times, I've ridden down hills, and have had other bikes die as you brake, skid, work the clutch, etc. It's usually no problem and is sometimes easier to handle. Anyway, I thought...what if I turn off the key, pull in the clutch, put it in first and make my way down with both brakes and IF I get out of control and need full handlebar control, just let clutch out and hopefully do a controlled slide? (what an optimist!) As i turned off the key i thought, wait a minute!, do the brake still work with the key off on this hi-tech machine? does the ABS turn off since it's electronic ?? since I couldn't tell for sure, I decided to give it a go and try not to think about the famous "scapula shattering hill of 2 years ago" (I guess pics are essential...see pic #2)

Anyway, I gave a push, slightly loaded the front brake and began to descend. Being a bit heavier than my other bikes (understatement) it did pick up speed a little faster, which was a bit unnerving, but I had piece of mind that at least if I endo the damn thing, the motor will not be running! I don't know why that gives me piece of mind?? The bike again was surprisingly stable coming down (maybe BECAUSE of the weight) and came to a stop near the bottom nicely and quietly...

All that to say that it seemed like a viable method for semi-steep downhill descents on dirt. Are there any thoughts, comments or better ideas for technique, besides stay away from those hills! : )

Pic #1: a portion of the hill

Pic #2: the hill that some dumbass decided to go down a couple years ago!!!
 

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Koinz

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Good thing to remember in a panic situation if you encounter a steep hill by surprise.

Question: if you left the key on and use the kill switch, does the abs still function? I'm thinking it might good to be able to restart the engine quickly in the event you need wheel power to help yourself maneuver through an obstacle.

Excellent test though and I'm glad you made it down safely. Looks like a pretty steep grade.
 

dcstrom

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Other (oldgitray is one that comes to mind) have tackled hills like that with abs on and have been impressed with the the way the bike handled it - ie not scary. I'm going to try it as soon as I find the right hill (one with a nice runoff area at the bottom)
 

Don in Lodi

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Here's my jeep trail thoughts. TC II is awesome going up, on Sport. TC I is too intrusive, the bike actually gets slower and slower. II keeps the rear wheel hooked up nice. Sport because when you need power, you need a lot of it now. I was all worried coming down a pretty technical set of run-off rutted switchbacks. In the back of my head is this small voice ranting that "everybody turns off abs for this chit stupid!" No fuss, no muss, very controllable. Oh yeah, lots of feed back from the abs, but no run away train thing at all. They were slow motion switchbacks requiring a lot of pre-planning, LOL, 15 feet at least so you could get the angles on the ditch crossings, or make a run through the boulder fields. A long straight downhill? Haven't tried one yet.
 

dehmlow

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canyonman said:
The "hill" in the second pic is a cliff. Never thought of just shutting the thing down, need to find a good hill with some run out to try some stuff.

AAAHHHH.... now it all makes sense.... hill.....cliff.....hill.....cliff......... ok to go down "hill" NOT OK to go over "cliff" thanks :) )

ya, practicing on something with a run out is a great idea!
 

~TABASCO~

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Those pictures look killer... Wish I was there on the new scoot tearing up those trails !!!! Looks great !
 

Brntrt

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I for one am going to opt for a kill switch for the ABS. I have gone down some steep loose hills that I damn near lost control because the rear brake wouldn't lock up and dig in. The way I look at it, what does it hurt to have the option to turn the ABS off. Anyone know of a source for a switch or DIY. I've read the spinning the rear wheel on the center stand in 2nd gear doesn't work on US models.
 

S_Palmer

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Brntrt said:
I for one am going to opt for a kill switch for the ABS. I have gone down some steep loose hills that I damn near lost control because the rear brake wouldn't lock up and dig in. The way I look at it, what does it hurt to have the option to turn the ABS off. Anyone know of a source for a switch or DIY. I've read the spinning the rear wheel on the center stand in 2nd gear doesn't work on US models.
When you were going down those hills, did you hit the back first to disconnect the linked brake system, if so were you also using the front brake?
 

Brntrt

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S_Palmer said:
When you were going down those hills, did you hit the back first to disconnect the linked brake system, if so were you also using the front brake?
Yup, I've always brake with the rear. Too many years of riding using skid steering on the back wheel
 

20valves

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I think I've read that the ABS does not intrude under 5 mph allowing the back to be locked. On a steep downhill, I've been keeping one finger on the front brake to manage speed until I get to a point where I can ride it out. So far so good but I suppose it's those surprise situations that could catch you out. I would expect that hitting the kill switch would immediately stop the ABS function but I haven't practiced this, probably should though.
 

Tremor38

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Brntrt said:
Shows unavailable, got an email out to them to find out what's up.
Yeah, from what I could see, it's still 'under development' They also said the picture shown is not the final version. Getting an estimated completion date would be nice.
 

Brntrt

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20valves said:
I think I've read that the ABS does not intrude under 5 mph allowing the back to be locked. On a steep downhill, I've been keeping one finger on the front brake to manage speed until I get to a point where I can ride it out. So far so good but I suppose it's those surprise situations that could catch you out. I would expect that hitting the kill switch would immediately stop the ABS function but I haven't practiced this, probably should though.
Did this today and it worked. Albeit keeping the beast at 5 MPH is almost as big a chore as picking up a drop. ::015::
 
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