Seeking Information on the Super Tenere

[Mr. Jones]

I will be purchasing a new Adventure bike very soon and would like to ask a few questions about the Super Tenere.

I have narrowed it down to the Yamaha, a GS or the new KTM 1190R. I ride with several very experienced friends who upgraded to the large Adventure bikes a few years ago. I will be the last one to do so. There is 3 GSs, 2 KTM 990s and a Triumph 800X.
Only the Triumph has had any problems, and with the way we ride, that says a lot about the others. The Triumph has been quite unreliable so it was just traded in on a KTM 1190R which should be here soon.

I am only considering the KTM 1190R, the LC GS and a Super Tenere as options for a new bike. When I asked the others I ride with why they didn't buy a Super Tenere, the main reasons they gave were weight, sluggish engine performance, and engine vibration. I have ridden the new KTM while I was in Europe last fall and have ridden the new GS several times, but because of all the snow here, it will be about a month before I can test the 2013 left over S10 at my dealer. All the dealers where I live are great so service is not an issue with any of them.

So because all of you here did choose the Yamaha and have experience with it, what do you think about the concerns of the weight, engine performance and considerable vibration?

The other question I have is about poor sales of the Super Tenere. My Yamaha dealer is a great guy who has given me good service on my quads and he was very honest with me about the Super Tenere. He told me they are very hard to sell, yet the other large Adventure bikes do sell well here. I really appreciate how up front he was about that. So why don't they sell while the others in the class sell out here every year?

Thanks in advance for your replies,
Sid

 

[~TABASCO~]

I've been on motorcycles for 31 years this year... Also being in the bike bizz I have the opportunity to ride most everything. I've always had very good luck with the Yamaha line up and haven't had any reliability issues ever. People can and have argued until there blue in the face between the three/four bikes. I myself know its a long distance mule for the long haul. The "vibration" in the engine is not that bad and many things can be changed to the engine as with the other bikes to "make them better"... In my own personal opinion, I think the BMW is probably a bit better street bike, I know the KTM is a better dirt bike, and the Yamaha is right in the middle. It might really depend on what you want to use this bike for.
I'm turned on by the new KTM, and I like to read about it, but at the end of the day im not selling or trading the Tenere, for my needs as an ADV bike the bike is awesome ! And after the mods is has plenty of power and rides like a dream.. The weight is a mind trick, I've never thought of the bike as 600 pounds. I ride it like its 275 pounds..

 

[markjenn]

First, I don't think engine vibration is any more of an issue than on the other big adventure twins. That's not to say there isn't an occasional bike and/or rider who doesn't fine it objectionable, but the same is true of the KTM and GS.

The other two concerns you mention are more/less true - the S10 is down on power and heavy on weight compared to the latest KTM and GS. Combine the two and you have a bike that will be noticeably less peppy. That doesn't mean it doesn't have plenty of power though. It all depends on what your benchmark is and what you're after in a bike. These two issues definitely play into the poorer sales of the S10, at least compared to the BMW. I also think a general lack of features and sophistication plays into it. This is being somewhat addressed with the new 2014 ES.... for the USA, we should know when it will be here and how much it will cost shortly.

I don't think there is any doubt that the S10 (and Yamahas in general) are extremely reliable bikes. We recently got some hard data that shows this quite clearly - on average a Yamaha owner can expect to have 1/3 the problems a BMW owner faces. But that certainly doesn't mean that every Yamaha is perfect or that every BMW is a lemon. You're always rolling the dice - they're just loaded more in your favor with a Yamaha (and Japanese bikes in general).

We don't have good reliability data on KTM, but in my book, I'd judge them a notch down even from BMW. I've owned two and they were both thoroughbred bikes but that lack of QA/QC with KTM is at times astounding. The early 950's were extremely problematic. I have no interest in taking long tours on a bike where I feel like maybe I need to carry a spare water pump.

And there is the cost. Apples to apples, the S10 typically goes out the door $3-$5K cheaper than the German bikes. This isn't enough for most buyers to rule the day, but it is something to think about.

At the end of the day, it really boils down to what you want in a bike. The Yamaha is a golden-retriever friendly, reliable as the day is long, extremely comfortable, and honest bike that is day-to-day liveable. It's not the bike that you might choose at the beginning of the day, but it is likely the bike you would choose at the end. But it doesn't offer the zip of the German bikes at the moment and it will likely finish well below them in any magazine comparison test you're going to read in the upcoming few months. It's not the bike to impress your friends with or do any drag-racing.

If you're looking at these bikes, you might want to look at the new big Strom too. It scratches some of the same itches as the Yamaha - reliability, value, comfort - but does it in a cheaper chain-drive package.

- Mark

 

[Mark R.]

I think the first two posts were well thought out and thorough, but I want to add my two cents. The Yamaha is almost unbreakable. The problems are simply minimal, maintenance is easy and you can do it yourself. Valve adjust intervals are long.

If you want to ride mostly on the street, you might like the others more. I use mine in the roughest back country that a reasonably sane person would attempt with a big ADV bike, and I could not be happier. I've made some upgrades: crash protection, suspension, seat, etc, and I am thrilled with my Tenere. It's a burly beast of a bike that will not let you down.

 

[Mr. Jones]

I've been on motorcycles for 31 years this year... Also being in the bike bizz I have the opportunity to ride most everything. I've always had very good luck with the Yamaha line up and haven't had any reliability issues ever. People can and have argued until there blue in the face between the three/four bikes. I myself know its a long distance mule for the long haul. The "vibration" in the engine is not that bad and many things can be changed to the engine as with the other bikes to "make them better"... In my own personal opinion, I think the BMW is probably a bit better street bike, I know the KTM is a better dirt bike, and the Yamaha is right in the middle. It might really depend on what you want to use this bike for.
I'm turned on by the new KTM, and I like to read about it, but at the end of the day im not selling or trading the Tenere, for my needs as an ADV bike the bike is awesome ! And after the mods is has plenty of power and rides like a dream.. The weight is a mind trick, I've never thought of the bike as 600 pounds. I ride it like its 275 pounds..

To answer the question of what I want to use the Super Tenere for, it isn't sport touring like most of the big Adventure bikes are generally used for. The six of us have all come from racing backgrounds and really do go "adventure touring" Last year we did the Utah and Colorado Backcountry Discovery Routes and at the pace those five were going with those big bikes all loaded up and didn't break anything, (other than the 800X which was trucked home) then the KTMs and the GSs have proven themselves to me already. My trusty old DR650 was not up to that pace but made it to the end too.

 

[20valves]

When you consider the Tenere being down on power, know also that the KTM will crush the BMW worse than the BMW will outrun a Tenere in a drag race. Off road? Tenere is heavier than the other two but all three are heavy and the Tenere handles well and has very usable power. The KTM has a power setting for off road that knocks its power to the level of a Tenere. Many people think they need lots of horsepower, few can actually use it. I've been riding for 45 years and while I enjoy horsepower as much as anyone, it's overrated in many contexts.

I disagree about the Tenere lacking "features." Its drive mode, TC and ABS are superbly functional. Lots of "features" have a large "gee whiz!" factor that's of dubious worth. As has been said, it depends on what you want from your bike. If you want to brag about it being the fastest drag racer or having the owner's manual most packed with "features instructions," it can't win. If you want a supremely capable, dependable and balanced machine to go on or off road over long distances (and not leave you stranded there), the Tenere will do it. ::008::

 

[maniac28]

You can't have this discussion without talking about price. I guess value is a better word. $20k for the GS (more like $21k), $17k for the KTM. My Super Tenere was $12k + tax. Brand. New.

The KTM and BMW perform great. I've owned 23 bikes in my riding career, including those brands.

The BMW and KTM have performance that the Yamaha can't really match (more so on the KTM, the BMW is overhyped). What the Yamaha offers is the most reliable, easiest to work on, and in my opinion, highest overall quality. It also performs very well in a variety of conditions. It's also going to be so much cheaper to own in the long run.

Honestly, one of the biggest turn off's to the GS to me, was the people who ride them. I know it's silly but I don't want to be affiliated with these guys who spend $20k on a bike, $5k on farkles, and then hang around at coffee shops and dealerships, talking about their fancy panniers or what not, because they really don't know how to ride offroad, or if they did take their bike offroad, they got scared to death and now they only ride on the street. I think adventure bikes, especially the GS's, are becoming the new Harley Davidson, more about image than actual riding.

 

[OldRider]

The only thing I can add to the above was my concern about the dealer network. There are a lot more Yamaha dealers around than KTM and BMW combined and that gives you a lot of flexibility. I owned a GS and it was trouble free and a great bike to ride, but I sure am happy I will never have to take my hat off, walk into a BMW dealer and beg for mercy ever again. They have you by the nads and they know it. Don't get me wrong, they were all nice people, but the bullseye is on your billfold. The KTM may be a great bike, but the prices and dealer network made me go with the S10 and so far I'am very happy.

 

[snakebitten]

I doubt words are gonna make much of a difference. You have been riding for years. So you are gonna decide on much different grounds than our opinions.
Since your buddies already chose against the Tenere, I suspect that has more influence than us anonymous posters.
Having said all that, if off-road is a big part of your groups ADVenture riding, I wouldn't have an ounce of inferiority complex riding my Tenere with some other Big Pig riders. Anywhere they'll take theirs, I'll take a Tenere. No doubt.
But tarmac hooligan riding? That KTM is gonna laugh at both the GS & Tenere. Which is kinda funny since until recently, the KTM always intentionally gave away some tarmac prowess just to guarantee the dirt title.
Regardless of which one you decide on, they are all modern marvels compared to yesterdays-years bikes. It's the golden era of giant dirt bikes.

 

[fredz43]

One more thing to mention is your concern about the "sluggish" engine of the S10. It is well known that the 2012-2013 S10's come with ECU's that are programmed to restrict the throttle bodies from opening all the way in the first 3 gears. It appears that Yamaha has addressed this with the 2014 model, but we will have to wait for confirmation on that. In the meantime, there are sources available in the USA to reflash the 2102-2013 ECU's to remove those restrictions and add other enhancements to greatly improve throttle response and "wake up" that engine. Many of us went thru EC Unlimited and are very happy with the results. They charge $450 plus shipping to one of their authorized dealers and the general consensus, including mine, is that it is worth every $. Since then, one of our own forum members, AVC8130 has worked with Flash Tune and is offering a reflash that he can customize to your preferences for merely $150 including return shipping.

 

[barkingllizard]

my first thought was Mr. Jones was trolling, but if not, go for a test ride and make your own decision...

if the S10 really was difficult to sell, I would expect the price to drop...

as for everything else, life is too short to ride a motorcycle that doesn't put a big effing grin on your face,
the usual suspects on this forum have BIG EFFING GRINS.....

 

[sportsguy]

I rode both the BMW GS and the Tenere before buying - bought the Tenere. Hands down the better bike for ME. (I like to ride like you do, Mr, Jones), though have yet to put the Tenere through quite that many paces.

I have a KTM 690 Enduro R which is reserved for rougher stuff, but frankly, if either bike was to leave my stable...it'd be the KTM. For no other reason than the Yamaha would most definitively be staying. I have the new suspension (Touratech/Tractive) in the Tenere and it's an entirely new bike. Even the high-zoot KTM electro-suspension is designed for a narrow-ish range of riders/circumstances, and many could find them outside it's performance envelope.

...and IIRC, the only suspecsion we get in the US (at least) is the ES, though I know the big KTM comes with another option elsewhere of the high end WP gear (as usual) with manual adjustments. I'm leaning towards saying Canada will get the manual option like the rest of the world because 'Mericans are spoiled, like to be spoiled and expect to be spoiled, so KTM intends to spoil them. (Yes, I AM CANADIAN!)

I have never had an issue with my KTM (admittedly, lower mileage due to two bikes to choose from), and I still love it!

I bought a 2012 and frankly, quality control is fine today. ..provided your expectations are in line. The 990 Adventure, for example, is a dated design, so even a left over 2012 will seem unrefined compared to today's new 1190, or even when compared to our Teneres.

Seriously, research the issues folks are having with the GS's - latest and last models. Its a common theme to hear a GS owner saying the bike was in the shop for a couple months while the dealer and BMW sorted out whether something was or wasn't to be covered under warranty... As stated, this could happen with ANY make/model, but, ah...I haven't heard of one yet from a Tenere owner I've met.

In the end, Mr. B, your approach is the right one - put YOUR butt on EACH bike. Honestly, given the stated experience, I think any one is a solid choice. Hell, I've even considered replacing my 690 Enduro R with a new 1190 just to have the horsepower to play with on road...

 

[HoebSTer]

Mr. Jones, you say your friends thought the Tenere was sluggish? Well if I had any more power or speed on two wheels which is made for the dirt, I will be in trouble. I would be in a hospital, but frankly, I don't want to ride that fast. Some around me say I am a fast rider, while I look at some riders like Bartek over on ADV Rider riding his KTM in the desert and think of myself I am a slow rider. So you be the judge of where I ride. But surely it is because of skill, not because the Tenere is sluggish. I am a bigger guy, good strength and when I get on the bike's throttle, I really have to hold on tight. Drive one, with clutch jumper, and then tell me it is sluggish. ::017::

Jeff

 

[Fatallybitten]

Mr. Jones, you are getting the kind of comments you should expect from a Super Tenere forum. The same biases would show up on GSpot and Orange Crush over at ADVrider. I can only offer you my own reasons for migrating to the Yamaha at the end of last year from a KTM 990 Adv. I loved the KTM 990 and put over 30,000 kms on it in under 2 years. But you have to really like tearing the bike apart 2 or 3 times a season to want to own one. Early returns on the 1190 suggest more of the same. Why didn't I move to the BMW? I was certainly tempted. On my big trip last year to the Yukon I would estimate that 8 out of every 10 Adventure Motorcycles I saw were BMW's and the vast majority of those were 1200's. So despite the widely held view that BMW owners just ride their bikes to Starbucks I can say that in my experience there are a lot of them out there being put to the intended use. So again, for me, it came down to reliability. I read too many blogs about problems with the BMW's and the sparse dealer network or qualified service repair centres. And the inconvenience of not being able to turn a wrench on the motorcycle for routine maintenance items for fear of voiding the warranty was a big issue for me. I have to assume, based on your comments, that your riding buddies have let you take their BMW's and KTM's for spins while out and about so you will have a good idea of how those bikes perform in the type of conditions you will be riding. Plus they will have been singing the praises of their bikes and you will have a sense for how reliable and maintenance heavy each brand is. There is also another factor I would probably consider in your situation and that is the benefit of riding the same machine as my buddies. There is something to be said for collective knowledge, to say nothing of the ability to split up spare parts inventories on big trips. All that being said, if you are truly serious about considering the Yamaha along with the GSW and 1190R then you should arrange to take one for a good test ride. Otherwise you will always be left wondering. I did just that last year and then I went with Yamaha for this simple reason.....

::021::

Cheers, David

 

[snakebitten]

At 16, I was gifted a CB750. It was a mans bike and was currently ruling the world. Early 80's I dreamed, begged, borrowed, to acquire the Suzuki GS1000. Didn't dethrone the Kawasaki 1000, but totally out handled it. Then the mighty GS1100 took the reins. Then the birth of the air-oil cooled GSXR's......so on and so on.

Point is, todays ADV bikes, although slated far below the modern sport bikes, would rule supreme over the KINGS of the road back then. Faster, better handling, fantastic brakes, TC, ......
Even the much maligned Tenere would have been science fiction not many years ago.
First World point of views. Kinda funny to watch from where I sit.

 

[Millsy_666]

My 2 cents. i was tossing up between the explorer 1200 the GS and the Versys 1000 along with the ST, one of my main reasons (not all ready mentioned by others), was engine heat, (although from the sound of it where you live will not be an issue) here in summer it regularly reaches 40+c (105+f) and as almost any rider who has ridden in those temps would know, stopping at the lights can quite literately start to fry you, i found the the heat management on the S10 to be the best of the bunch. with a very minimal amount of heat being transferred to the rider, also i was quite impressed that even on a 47C (117F) day the radiator was capable of keeping the engine temp down with the bike at idle/low speed as well. My other reasons were as mentioned
Price
Dealer network
Lower Parts and servicing average costs
Reliability (around 1/4 GS's have major issues in the first 12 months compared to 1/10 S10, according to the statistics i have seen)
As for power/performance all these bikes are extremely close in most real world situations, and as suggested if you get the ECU flash the difference in lower gears is even less or gone.
But in the end you have to test ride and make sure it's the bike for you, no amount of $ saved on servicing parts or reliability is going to help if you simply don't like the ride.

 

[BaldKnob]

Mr. Jones, you still here? If so, this is probably exactly what you thought you would read from a bunch of Blue Kool-Aid drinking Teneristas. We love this bike... there, I said it. But it will never compare to the BM/KTM in the stats or on the spec sheet. Those machines were built to impress a totally different audience. Sitting next to the Germans, the S10 appears simple, crude even. The electric package seems ancient (although TC/ABS work great) when you can toggle though this, that and the other thing (all while riding) on the GS/1190. And don't get me started on looks. Tonka has done better jobs on some of their trucks compared to this lopsided, bug-eyed beast. A 10-minute test ride will not knock your socks off after riding the other two.

No, the beauty of the Yamaha is in the ownership, the day-to-day, the casual competence in the way it inhales whatever you throw at it. No Drama. Some say no character... whatever. The engine has plenty of punch, the suspension is pretty good stock (easily upgraded) and so easy to work on a caveman could do it. The KTM will be checking valves every other oil change. 26,000 miles for the S10. BM, already, has a long list of failures on the new model and a history of using owners as Beta testers for their products. A few o-rings early on and now the headlight harness have been the only issues with the Yamaha. No bike is perfect but the Tenere is perfect enough for me and many others here and there. YMMV. Good luck with what ever machine you choose. Let us know which one and why.

 

[twinrider]

The other two concerns you mention are more/less true - the S10 is down on power and heavy on weight compared to the latest KTM and GS. Combine the two and you have a bike that will be noticeably less peppy.

Sounds like you still haven't gotten the flash. ::005::

 

[markjenn]

Sounds like you still haven't gotten the flash.

The flash may be great but it is not going to come close to making up for a 20-30 hp and 35-45 lb weight disadvantage vs. the BMW and KTM (respectively). For better or worse, these bikes are in a different straight-line performance league right now.

- Mark

 

[twinrider]

The flash may be great but it is not going to come close to making up for a 20-30 hp and 35-45 lb weight disadvantage vs. the BMW and KTM (respectively). For better or worse, these bikes are in a different straight-line performance league right now.

- Mark

Can't speak for the KTM but I've ridden the LC GS twice back to back with my S10.

The first time it felt much faster than my stock Tenere.

The second time was after my S10 got the Gen II flash and I couldn't discern any real difference between the two bikes on the twisty back road we were riding, where the GS couldn't exploit its presumably better top end.

In short, you might want to try a flashed S10 before telling others how much faster the GS is. I think you will be in for a surprise. ::008::