Rear shock

[EricV]

What makes you think the OEM shock requires rebuild any less often?

There are plenty of guys rolling around with high miles on aftermarket shocks with no rebuilds. The rebuild is only required if there is a failure or the owner requires the utmost performance. Since the obvious failure would be a seal leak, and the OEM shock uses a similar setup, I don't see that being a big worry. I have had my Penske for ~20k miles. It still feels as good today as it did the day I bought it.

I don't plan to rebuild the shock until I see a failure. At this point I am doing "endurance testing". LOL

ac

What? ??? You're not following the manufactures recommendations? After all, wasn't it you that said the manufacture knows best?

Conversely, there are plenty of guys rolling around on high mile oem shocks too. The same arguments apply to service of an aftermarket shock that apply to a stock shock in terms of degradation of performance.

Dare I suggest that my 64k oem shock feels just as good as it did new? I doubt it's just as good as new, but it still does the intended job going down the road.

 

[Firefight911]

Dare I suggest that my 64k oem shock feels just as good as it did new? I doubt it's just as good as new, but it still does the intended job going down the road.

You can suggest AND dare. Go ahead. However, there is no chance on this green Earth it feels as good as new unless you did those 64,000 miles on the center stand. It's intended job is to maintain the road and tire in concert with each other. It ain't doing that anymore, I can dare and suggest to you. But, here's the beauty of it all, you are the one riding it, not me, so it matters not what anyone here thinks. Ride it with that thought in your mind as wrong as it is.

 

[snakebitten]

Theoretically,

20K miles on any shock, even a good after market shock, would result in some degree of wear, and\or decreased performance.

Maybe not enough to warrant a rebuild. I agree.

But it probably isn't as good as it was after breaking in. (Probably IS better than day 1 though)

I suspect that wear\decrease is at a pace that your seat-of-the-pants can't really register though.

Devils advocate stance. Bored, at work. No fires to put out.

 

[avc8130]

What? ??? You're not following the manufactures recommendations? After all, wasn't it you that said the manufacture knows best?

Conversely, there are plenty of guys rolling around on high mile oem shocks too. The same arguments apply to service of an aftermarket shock that apply to a stock shock in terms of degradation of performance.

Dare I suggest that my 64k oem shock feels just as good as it did new? I doubt it's just as good as new, but it still does the intended job going down the road.

I'm sure the manufacturer's do know best.

Like I said "endurance testing".

When the damping fades and starts requiring adjustment I will send it in.

Unlike the forks, this oil is kept under pressure. There is much less contamination since the spring is OUTSIDE the oil bath.

Either way, to use the "maintenance" as part of the dollars and cents isn't fair since there is no reason the aftermarket shock would receive more maintenance than the stocker other than it COULD.

ac

 

[scott123007]

Does any of this really matter? If the type of riding being done, does not feel compromised by the rider doing it, the riders choice of suspension is obviously good enough for them. So much of this has to do with making the bike feel a little more compliant, but in my case, if it doesn't make me faster, it's not worth the investment. And being fast on a Tenere is like being fast on a Harley, what's the point?

 

[EricV]

It's intended job is to maintain the road and tire in concert with each other. It ain't doing that anymore, I can dare and suggest to you.

Dood, Gravity's a law. The tire still reaches the ground. I'm not racing, counting seconds, lap times or trying to improve my corner speeds. Neither am I concerned with how fast I cover a piece of trail. Yes, of course I know it's going to, and has, deterorated, but like AC, I'm doing 'endurance testing'. ;D I'd rather spend the money on gas at this point. When it leaks or fails, I'll replace it.

Depending on what the OP's definition of ride quality is, it very well may be the only reasonable choice to upgrade to an aftermarket shock. Or not, depending on his issues.

AC - My point was that no one spends money doing maintenance on the stocker, because it's not possible. But, many, possibly even most, will spend money on maintenance on an aftermarket shock. Now, it's all moot if they don't keep the bike long enough for it to matter.

Spring sag seems to be more of an issue with the oem than actual shock degradation.

 

[snakebitten]

Rented an S10 with 70,000 KM on it. (~45,000 miles?)

2-up across the lower half of Australia.

Still had FUN!
So it didn't ruin the adventure.

But it sure as heck influenced the riding technique. Boing. If you know what I mean.

Shocks are under-appreciated by most folks. Cars\trucks\bikes...........
Worn tires cause flats.
Worn brakes WILL get your attention.
Worn shocks lull you to Buickworld without even knowing it.

The debate hasn't ever been won by either side. Probably never will.

I will admit that OEM Teneres went everywhere that tricked out Teneres went during the Ouray festival.

 

[Dallara]

~


I love these discussions... Mostly because they make me laugh!

Especially when things get trotted out like "my 64k oem shock feels just as good as it did new..." In that 64.000 miles how many times did you change your engine oil and filter? How about the final drive fluid? Brake pads? Did you wait until the engine started leaking or blew up to change the oil and filter? How about the final drive... Did you wait until all the lube leaked out, the seals were toast, and it was grinding metal-to-metal before you serviced it? And those brake pads... Did you wait until the pad material was all worn away and the backing plates were grinding deep, nasty grooves into the discs before you changed pads?

What's even funnier about discussions like these is that folks will think absolutely nothing of changing their fork oil on a reasonably regular basis, yet completely ignore the rear shock... Yet the the front forks don't experience nearly the loading (either by impact or their own springs), have many times the oil volume, and don't operate at nearly the stroke velocities that the poor, ignored rear shock does!!! ::025::

You hear it time and time again...

Change your oil and filter regularly!!!
Ditto on that final drive lube!!!
Grease those shaft splines every 15 to 20-K!!!
Don't forget to check that steering head nut!!!!
Etc., etc., etc., etc....

All sorts of preventative maintenance advice and proclamations...

And yet some of the same folks who will toss out those pearls of wisdom will tell ya' the rear shock is literally OK to ignore forever, or at least until it "leaks or fails"!!! :

I just hafta' laugh... ::015::

Dallara



~

 

[avc8130]

Does any of this really matter? If the type of riding being done, does not feel compromised by the rider doing it, the riders choice of suspension is obviously good enough for them. So much of this has to do with making the bike feel a little more compliant, but in my case, if it doesn't make me faster, it's not worth the investment. And being fast on a Tenere is like being fast on a Harley, what's the point?

If you do anything but ride down a perfectly straight and impeccably paved road, suspension will make you faster.

I'm sorry you feel that way comparing your Tenere to a Harley. I've taught enough sport bikes a lesson here and there on my Tenere in the twisties to get "the point". ::26::

 

[EricV]

If you read all of my post, I said

I doubt it's just as good as new, but it still does the intended job going down the road.

I know shocks degrade, but we all have our own benchmark for when it's time for replacement.

What's really funny is how no one else asked the OP what his issues were, just jumped on the bandwagon for aftermarket shocks, which is not what he asked for. Sadly, the OP hasn't been back to add to the discussion either.

As AC pointed out, the shock's oil is pressurized and sealed. It's hardly comparable to final drive oil, and laughable to compare it to engine oil that gets combustion waste contaminants. You know better. ::005::

 

[greg the pole]

Counter point - You spend ~$900, then spend $100-200 more to rebuild it every year. When you're ready to move on to another bike, it needs a rebuild, ROI is zero and it goes with the bike to the next owner.

I mostly did rebuild every year, but that was also about 40k, and less frequent than suggested. Still, you're spending money to rebuild/refresh the custom shock, it's not just a one time cost.

The OP did not specify what his issues were. Until we have that data, the suggestions are addressing unknown complaints. Just suggesting they spend the big money, "because it's worth it", doesn't really answer the question.

why would you rebuild every year? my shock needs to be sorted every 30 thousand miles. I do ride my bike alot but not that much. Ok after reading the entire post
you ride a lot more than me. But they did tell me 30-40 k miles for rebuild. And it's a bid difference over stock

 

[EricV]

why would you rebuild every year? my shock needs to be sorted every 30 thousand miles. I do ride my bike alot but not that much.

You ride a lot for you, and that's great. But you don't ride a lot. You do ride more than most.

It's pretty common for aftermarket shock dealers to recommend service at 20-30k miles. At times that has been a period of two months for me in the past.

AC - I have no doubt you have spanked many a sport bike on your Super Ten. But you also know how much easier it would have been for you to spank them on a sport bike. It's the rider, not the bike. All you're telling me is that you are a good rider, (which I fully believe), not that the Super Ten is all that or that your set up is all that. You likely could have spanked the same riders on a stock Super Ten, just had to work a little harder to do it.

 

[greg the pole]

Eric. I have this annoying thing that gets in the way of many miles...my job ::015::
did I read that right that you're at 64 xxx miles?
Good lord man, if I ride 15-20xxx km/year it's a good one for me. But I share myself across all bikes, and riding season in canada usually lasts about 32 days ::002:: ::015::

 

[Dallara]

If you read all of my post, I said
I know shocks degrade, but we all have our own benchmark for when it's time for replacement.

What's really funny is how no one else asked the OP what his issues were, just jumped on the bandwagon for aftermarket shocks, which is not what he asked for. Sadly, the OP hasn't been back to add to the discussion either.

As AC pointed out, the shock's oil is pressurized and sealed. It's hardly comparable to final drive oil, and laughable to compare it to engine oil that gets combustion waste contaminants. You know better. ::005::

And so do you, Eric...

Shock oil may not be exposed to combustion contaminants, but neither is final drive oil. Oddly enough, the final drive is actually a pretty fair comparison to the stresses a modern, single, leverage-linkage rear shock goes through, especially if it's ridden off-road at all. The lubes in final drives have wonderful cushioning additives (that's why so many smell of sulphur) to handle any of the gear impact they encounter, and the fact that the rear shock is pressurized does have some advantages, but it also adds to certain stresses the shock oil is subjected to. Today's shocks are most definitely marvels of engineering, but that doesn't mean they should simply be ignored...

As you say, Eric... You know better. ::005::

You just don't like to admit it. No way you would let other components on your motorcycles suffer the lack of maintenance you are suggesting for a rear shock, and if you did you'd be a fool. And an even bigger fool for advocating it to others.

Just out of curiosity, Eric... Have you ever changed the fork oil on your Super Tenere?

Dallara



~

 

[EricV]

Eric. I have this annoying thing that gets in the way of many miles...my job ::015::
did I read that right that you're at 64 xxx miles?
Good lord man, if I ride 15-20xxx km/year it's a good one for me. But I share myself across all bikes, and riding season in canada usually lasts about 32 days ::002:: ::015::

Yes, 64k, but I cheat, I ride long distances w/o stopping much. About 10k in 11 days earlier this month. And another 5k just crossing the country on the way to the event and way home.

@Dallera - I don't agree that the final drive compares to the shock in those terms. The shock is quite simple, piston, wipers, seals, disks, etc. The final drive is an assortment of gears with a much greater friction level and surface area.

As you pointed out, no one changes the oil in the stock shock. If it were that vital, it would be a user serviceable item like the air filter, engine oil, etc. I've seen the oil from shocks with 20k and 40k and there wasn't much difference unless a seal went bad and allowed contaminants in.

And yes, I have changed the fork oil. The first change is always nasty, but the next one isn't very bad. Something about that oil that Yamaha uses from the factory perhaps? I don't do it every 10k like I used to on the FJR for that reason.

 

[avc8130]

You ride a lot for you, and that's great. But you don't ride a lot. You do ride more than most.

It's pretty common for aftermarket shock dealers to recommend service at 20-30k miles. At times that has been a period of two months for me in the past.

AC - I have no doubt you have spanked many a sport bike on your Super Ten. But you also know how much easier it would have been for you to spank them on a sport bike. It's the rider, not the bike. All you're telling me is that you are a good rider, (which I fully believe), not that the Super Ten is all that or that your set up is all that. You likely could have spanked the same riders on a stock Super Ten, just had to work a little harder to do it.

Back to safety. LOL

I've ridden back to back on stock vs my bike. I'll take my bike...and so will anyone else that has ridden back to back. Nick has gotten more than 1 customer that way. LOL

Sure...you COULD try to ride as quickly through bumpy turns on a stock bike as on mine...but it certainly feels a hell of a lot more dangerous! Probably has something to do with your gravity not working quickly enough and the spring trying to eject me off the bike.

What the hell do I know. I've only experienced both on the Tenere...back to back...over the same road.

FWIW, the road was 28 from Fontana Village to CROT on 129.

ac

 

[Dallara]

@Dallera - I don't agree that the final drive compares to the shock in those terms. The shock is quite simple, piston, wipers, seals, disks, etc. The final drive is an assortment of gears with a much greater friction level and surface area.

As you pointed out, no one changes the oil in the stock shock. If it were that vital, it would be a user serviceable item like the air filter, engine oil, etc. I've seen the oil from shocks with 20k and 40k and there wasn't much difference unless a seal went bad and allowed contaminants in.

And yes, I have changed the fork oil. The first change is always nasty, but the next one isn't very bad. Something about that oil that Yamaha uses from the factory perhaps? I don't do it every 10k like I used to on the FJR for that reason.

Always love it how you insist on misspelling my screen name, ErOc... ErAc... ErUc... ErEc... ErYc... ::025::

Don't know why, but it never fails that you do.

As far as rear shocks, or any shocks for that matter... I guess I've just had a lot more of them apart and on the bench in front of me than you, and believe me, what can come out of there can be incredibly nasty - much more so than fork oil - and even so after very little use.

As for your lackadaisical suggestion about the rear shock maintenance that "If it were that vital, it would be a user serviceable item like the air filter, engine oil, etc....", one more time - you know better... ::005::

The only reason most manufacturers seal the rear shocks on their bikes and make them *throwaway* replaceable items, rather than owner serviceable ones, has to do with the high gas pressures contained within them. The manufacturers don't want owners trying to work on stuff with very high PSI levels for simply liability reasons, and they also know the average "Eric" out there doesn't have high-pressure inert gas bottles sitting in their garage's, much less a proper way to charge a gas-emulsion type shock like they provide on the Super Tenere. Of course, most of the good aftermarket rear shocks use a bladder or floating piston for gas separation not just for the performance advantage they provide but also for the ease of maintenance and re-charging they provide versus emulsion types.

Odd, too... The Japs use the same quality oil in their OEM shocks as they do in their front forks, and you seem to feel a need to change that - and early - yet you feel no compunction or reservation in ignoring your shock (as well as recommending that others do the same) despite the fact it has to work far harder than the oil in your forks and there is a whole lot less of it to handle that stress, wear, pressure, etc.

But go ahead... Bury yourself deeper. It's fun to watch!

Dallara


(that's D-A-L-L-A-R-A... ::025:: )

~

 

[EricV]

Always love it how you insist on misspelling my screen name, ErOc... ErAc... ErUc... ErEc... ErYc... ::025::

Don't know why, but it never fails that you do.

My apologies. Its not intentional. If I had more familiarity with the origin, I'd probably not misspell it, but it's not been interesting enough for me to go look up. I vaguely recall it's a chassis manufacturer that dominates some race classes. I've never found watching racing all that interesting. (or sports) I'd rather go out and do something myself than watch others do it.

We are way off topic for the OPs question.

 

[Dallara]

My apologies. Its not intentional. If I had more familiarity with the origin, I'd probably not misspell it, but it's not been interesting enough for me to go look up. I vaguely recall it's a chassis manufacturer that dominates some race classes. I've never found watching racing all that interesting. (or sports) I'd rather go out and do something myself than watch others do it.

We are way off topic for the OPs question.

Well, regardless of its origin, the correct spelling is always right there in my posts, my listed screen name, and in the avatar... :

And I didn't watch racing - I did it, on two-wheels and four. I didn't watch others do it. Funny how much you learn about shocks, etc. that way. ::025::

Not sure how off-topic we are from the OP's original question, as it did directly have to do with whether or not the OEM shock could be "upgraded" or not, and that would definitely involve the shocks disassembly, etc.

But it's OK, Eric... I can understand why, given your assertions and position, you'd be backpedaling away from the topic!

Dallara


~

 

[scott123007]

Dallara, I think I know why you never go to the "Gatherings". Your type A personality is such that for everyone at one of these Gatherings that might be glad to meet you and give you a big hug for all your help on this board, there are just as many that would rather punch you out for your "behind the keyboard" in your face attitude. Just sayin...