PREMIUM ONLY?

[Tremor38]

I guess this is something that doesn't really phase me. We have one choice of gas on base, which is 91 RON. If I ride far enough to need refueling off base (Japan), the price difference between regular and premium really isn't that much, so I could go either way. Good thing I don't need to do that often, because the price of regular gas here in Japan is roughly double what we pay on base. At current exchange rate one gallon of Japanese gas is about $7.00 U.S. ::013::

 

[Storm]

I've used 89 and 93...only difference I can tell is about $1 a fillup. 8)

 

[justinshort]

I wonder if this could possibly have something to do with "magic show" that is Ethanol fuel. I know most bikes will take up to E10 fuel but OEM's are also having some issues with keeping octane in the fuel.. little known fact is that you lose 2 points of octane when E10 fuel comes from the pump touches and enters your tank. I'm thinking Yamaha may be taking this into account by asking for a higher octane since much of America has had this charade stuffed down our throats now.. and you do happen to be blessed with the old MTBE fuel nearby then an extra 2 octane points won't cause any damage.. especially if you're running YamaLube Ringfree in every tank which I'm sure everyone is, right? ha

Off topic.. but my favorite Ethanol charade is in NASCAR. Anybody noticed how American Ethanol is now a major sponsor? Anybody notice how Sunoco won't keep fuel at the track anymore? They bring tankers in for each race.. it's in large part because the ethanol won't hold it's octane, attracts moisture, etc., etc. Anybody else notice how races that have never been fuel mileage races are all of a sudden fuel mileage races now? And NASCAR has been anti-fuel injection and adamant that it wasn't coming... now that they've got E10 there's this huge sense of urgency to have FI for next year. It's all a joke and a touchy subject for me in case it wasn't obvious.

Whew, okay.. so yeah, there's my .02. ::014::

 

[20valves]

"magic show" that is Ethanol fuel.

Agree 100%. The number of stations that sell 100% gasoline here is on the rise and they advertise it aggressively. One Valero station here says the only alcohol they have is in the beer 'fridge'.

 

[SisuTen]

Agree 100%. The number of stations that sell 100% gasoline here is on the rise and they advertise it aggressively. One Valero station here says the only alcohol they have is in the beer 'fridge'.

I LOVE Oklahoma, Texas and Arizona. They remain true to the American spirit! Unfortunately,Colorado has been lost to the yuppies :-[

Back to the thread....Justin, Welcome aboard, glad to see there's another intelligent voice here.

Paul

 

[elizilla]

Um, whatever it's problems (and I agree they are legion) ethanol doesn't reduce octane - it increases it.

 

[Maybert]

Um, whatever it's problems (and I agree they are legion) ethanol doesn't reduce octane - it increases it.

+1 Ethanol's AKI rating is 99+

 

[justinshort]

Um, whatever it's problems (and I agree they are legion) ethanol doesn't reduce octane - it increases it.

Ethanol in and of itself.. no. But the problem is that all alcohol’s are hygroscopic. That means it likes water, and it attracts and couples with moisture in the air, resulting in greater amounts of water collecting in the fuel tank. It's my understanding that Ethanol by itself is over 100 octane.. and while Ethanol provides the E10 fuel with much of its Octane rating.. once the water in the tank reaches about .5% it will phase separate and the ethanol will be drawn to the bottom of the tank along with the water... this is how E10 fuel can lose its octane.

Disclaimer: I could be wrong and don't mind being corrected.. but this is how I've always understood it.

 

[Kevhunts]

I've been running 93 (R+M)/2 since day one with out issues. ::008::

Today I got too slow in too tall a gear as I manuvered around some debris in the roadway and when I got back on it, my engine pinged in protest.
You know that classic "bolts rattling around in a coffee can" sound.

So it's possible to ping even with premium gas if the conditions are right. :

For those brave enough to be running lower octane gas, I would keep and ear out for "any" pinging so as to avoid engine damage. :'(

 

[~TABASCO~]

I've been running 93 (R+M)/2 since day one with out issues. ::008::

Today I got too slow in too tall a gear as I manuvered around some debris in the roadway and when I got back on it, my engine pinged in protest.
You know that classic "bolts rattling around in a coffee can" sound.

So it's possible to ping even with premium gas if the conditions are right. :

For those brave enough to be running lower octane gas, I would keep and ear out for "any" pinging so as to avoid engine damage. :'(

Kev, How is your bike set up? Any engine adjustments or Mods? Ive been running mid grade and it ROCKS... I found some 100% gas out in the country today and that 'seamed' to be even better...

 

[markjenn]

little known fact is that you lose 2 points of octane when E10 fuel comes from the pump touches and enters your tank.

It's little known because I doubt it is true. Ethanol has higher octane than gasoline. And that IS a verifiable fact.

- Mark

 

[Kevhunts]

Kev, How is your bike set up? Any engine adjustments or Mods? Ive been running mid grade and it ROCKS... I found some 100% gas out in the country today and that 'seamed' to be even better...

Completely stock. No fault of the bike, all operator error.

What exactly is 100% gas? Do you mean non-ethanol, non-oxygenated unleaded?

 

[justinshort]

It's little known because I doubt it is true. Ethanol has higher octane than gasoline. And that IS a verifiable fact.

- Mark

Check out my follow up post Mark..

ps- thanks for awkwardly capitalizing the word "IS"

 

[markjenn]

Check out my follow up post Mark..

ps- thanks for awkwardly capitalizing the word "IS"

Missed the followup. I have never heard of what you're talking about, so no comment about it. In any event, the idea that Yamaha requires higher octane to handle some water phase separation issue with E10 sounds extremely far-fetched to me.

I think Yamaha requires 91 because they designed the engine around 91. Which means it will run fine on less except under situations when high octane is demanded, which is not often, but will probably occur for most riders every now and then. Then it won't run fine.

- Mark

 

[RockyDS]

I think Yamaha requires 91 because they designed the engine around 91. Which means it will run fine on less except under situations when high octane is demanded, which is not often, but will probably occur for most riders every now and then. Then it won't run fine.

- Mark

That's the bottom line right there. If premium is available and you're not cheap use it, if not use regular. If the bike pings reconsider - except it won't, so don't sweat it. I carried octane booster to Alaska last year and I did use it until I ran out and I noticed absolutely no difference afterwards.

Yamaha is recommending premium because there might be some elevations, temperature, etc. conditions where the performance is not as specified/tested. That doesn't mean the bike doesn't work just fine on regular gas.

Maybe, they didn't fit a knock detection because we don't need it.

 

[bvail]

I say "If it feels good, do it", but I've been driving, riding, pushing lawnmowers or whatever required gasoline to go since circa 1960 and have never, ever used Ethyl, Premium, mid-grade high octane or whatever the high priced spread was offered at the time. Always used the cheap stuff and never any complaints from me or the motor.
No longer have the S10, but when I did I used 85 octane and no problems at all.
Of course if one lugs the motor, some complaints will ping forth at times.
That's all I got to say about that ::009::
p.s. See some of you in Ouray I hope. I will be the one with the titanium Wing and camper at the KOA.

 

[528Hz]

I went to telegraph creek last year and ran regular or medium grade quite frequently once I entered Canada. Bike was stock. I did notice that gas stations were loaded with octane booster in that part of the continent. But I never bought it, never had to use it, never had any pinging or noticeable loss of performance. ::021:: ::001::