Oil Filter leak - Operator Error?

[EdM]

So.... you know how it goes. Your bike is scheduled for its first service in a few days and your buddies set up a ride for tomorrow and you really really really want to show off your new ride.

I was at 682 miles so I decided to do the oil/shaft drive change myself and let the dealer do the rest. I've changed the oil on my previous bikes, and with the info I'd found on this forum, I figured it would be a straightforward job. No Tupperware, easy access, what could go wrong?

The bike had its first service about a week ago, but stayed because the dealer was replacing under warranty the left handle bar switch cluster because it was lose (they said the pin that holds the cluster tight wasn't getting enough purchase). When the dealer called me to tell me the bike is ready, they said they put on a new filter because the one I had put on was leaking. I don't know how much yet. I'll find out today.

As it happens I'm also preparing to make my fortune on YouTube with my riveting amateur motorcycle maintenance videos:
https://youtu.be/pLuaHCBThyo


As you will see in the video, my previous motorcycles had slightly larger oil filters, so my oil wrenches were all too big. It was later on a Saturday so I only had access to auto parts stores and they didn't have any wrenches that would fit, so I went old school. Not pretty, but the factory filter came off. It didn't feel like there was any damage to anything but the filter itself.

As you see in the video, I'm using the Bosch 3300 and it seemed to be a good fit. I had out my trusty torque wrench, and it was properly set to 17Nm, but because the oil filter wrench was too big the oil filter was tightened to what was basically hand tight. You can see in the video that with the oil filter wrench I get a bit of a turn beyond hand tight, but the torque wrench didn't break because the wrench slips first.

So did I over tighten? Under tighten? On all my other bikes (and cars), I've been cautious about over tightening as I've always heard that hand tight was the right way, and I've never had a problem.

Since the call from the dealer yesterday, I've scoured the forum and found a few threads about oil filter manufacturers changing the shape of the filters where they seat into the bike. I also saw that there seem to be two versions of the Bosch 3300, a blue (CP ??? ) and a black. I used the black because I didn't know there was a blue one when I bought it.

One of my friends thinks the dealer did the oil change by mistake and then realized they weren't supposed to but needed to explain why there was a different filter on the bike.

TIA for any feedback you can provide.

 

[Pterodactyl]

Bosch changed some of their filters without notice from having a flat sealing surface to having a slightly convex sealing surface. I do not know if it was intentional or done inadvertently, but it appears that it continues. If I am correct and you have a filter with a convex surface, then you will never get it to seal well. Reinforces my tendency to use OEM stuff. I did use the same Bosch filter on my FJR, but stopped doing so over a year ago when folks began having the same issue as you have encountered.

 

[Checkswrecks]

I like the intent and the idea of the video but would recommend taking down the video and re-make it after going through the collective learning here and being ready to do the next change in a smooth professional flow. Do a search on the forum for subjects about changing the filter, filter leaks, and techniques. Along with whatever other terms, try Googling "oil filter convex concave leak" and you'll learn that:


There's a history about the Bosch 3300 filter you chose to use. As with some others, there's a convex and a concave bottom available and you didn't know the difference.
http://www.yamahasupertenere.com/index.php?topic=17660.0


If you remove the filter before putting the drain plugs back in, you won't move anything from it down into the next load of fresh oil.
btw - You'll drain the sludgy bits better if the bike drains on the side stand.


If a regular oil filter wrench doesn't work right off, punching a hole through the can can lead to tearing it and then you've got a bigger problem. The BIG set of channel locks NEVER fails and they are good for a million other uses too.

Channel Lock makes a large oil filter set that works great too, they just are not able to be used for as many other things in the shop and house.

You need to be able to relate that this is a dry sump engine, and what that means with respect to the oil filter sight glass.


I'm sure others will chime in with more.

 

[Juan]

I always used OEM filters, with the exception of one change , when I used HiFlo. I only hand-tighten the filter after lightly lubricating the rubber gasket. Never had an issue.

 

[EdM]

Thanks!

A) Filter off before drain bolts back on
B) Side stand
C) Channel Lock pliers - Large
D) Noted about the differences in the 3300. Despite my searching for info on oil filters, I managed to miss those discussions. I'll probably go OEM from now on. I've had success with Bosch products, until now.

Does the dry-sump impact how you change the oil or just how you expect the oil levels to appear in the sight glass?

With my Harley's I just poured oil over them and then they spit the oil back at me.

 

[AVGeek]

Thanks!

Does the dry-sump impact how you change the oil or just how you expect the oil levels to appear in the sight glass?

How you expect oil levels to appear in the sight glass. Make sure you follow the procedure for checking the oil as detailed in the manual, otherwise you will wind up chasing your tail trying to get the oil level correct "in the sight glass".

 

[EricV]

Some great tips and points above. CW, it's ok to have a big honking pair of channel lock pliers, and a set of oil filter pliers. ;D And yes, I do have both. There are also various ajustable filter tools out there that will fit a variety of sizes, for socket wrench use. I have this one, which I reserve for stubborn filters. Lisle Adjustable filter wrench

And yes, the Bosch filter is why it leaked. You're lucky it didn't leak badly, some auto filters do not even come close enough for the o-ring to touch the base now. There are a few that still work, but not typically ones you will find at the local auto parts store. Mahle OC-575 is a good one that can be ordered from www.rockauto.com for a very reasonable price. Sometimes you can buy a case of the Yamaha oem filters for a good price too, if you hunt for deals. I paid about $75 for a case of 10 the last time I bought filters. Next time, I'll likely get the Mahle filters.

 

[VRODE]

I got bit with a Bosch filter as well, the day before a trip out west. I always check the sealing surface of any filter I use now (convex vs. concave)

 

[Ramseybella]

I have been buying and using these and never looked back.. Turned my Gold Wing buddy onto them he loves them..
http://www.rockauto.com/en/parts/mahle+/+clevite,OC575,oil+filter,5340

I have been using this and also never looked back.. This thing pays for itself the first time you use it. Walmart sells them as well.
https://www.amazon.com/Lisle-63250-Range-Filter-Wrench/dp/B0002SR4PY

 

[bob dirt]

Ouch...that video made me cringe when you couldn't get the filter off and hammered a huge screwdriver in the filter and again when you used a wrench to tighten it back up AND again when you used synthetic oil. Just my opinion but I use channel locks to loosen my filter and do it while the plugs are still out and on the side stand. I always hand tighten the OEM filter and I use Yamalube as recommended. At least you used a torque wrench. I'd say keep your day job and get ride of your video camera ::015::

 

[RCinNC]

I've been using a Mobil M1-108 filter on mine since the first oil change. 3/4 turn past hand tight, with never a leak.

I've also had success with stubborn filters using a strap wrench. Less likely to crush the filter than a big pair of channel lock pliers, though admittedly the pliers can definitely get a good solid grip.

 

[EdM]

I always hand tighten the OEM filter

I get the hand tighten, but the manual says 17Nm. I'm guessing hand tightening gets most people close to 17Nm?

 

[EricV]

[Deleted my post and the first line of EricV's which referred to it. This was to eliminate confusion, as I was thinking of Purolator One filters which now have the bad convex bottom shape when I wrote about a different filter ending with "1" and EricV caught the error. Thx - CW]


Many motorcycles have filter bosses that cause interferance with a convex filter base. Some, it makes no difference. The wife's GSA for example, takes a Bosch car filter with convex base just fine.

I have played with the idea of swapping out the Super Ten's filter joint with one that doesn't have the hex so it would take any filter again. The part is cheap, just haven't ordered it to see if it's a smooth swap or not.

Torque values - There are generally two reasons for a torque value on something. So it doesn't fall off, and so you don't snap it off by accident. Things like bearing caps do require special attention to avoid damaging the softer bearings or pinching rotating parts captured by the bearings.

Oil filters fall into the category of things you don't want to fall off. They don't vibrate loose. There is no need to torque it to spec, if you snugged it down to the gasket and gave it a bit more, it's going to seal and not going to fall off.

Axle nuts, you don't want to come loose, thus the high torque value. Small things like oil drain plugs, you don't want to strip the aluminum threads, BUT, the torque value in the FSM is incorrect in some cases. It's too high. The FSM for some vehicles specs the torque value based upon a dry fastener and dry threads. Lubricated threads are far more naturally occurring with oil filters and drain plugs, as who really cleans and dries the threads completely? Lubricated threads require a diminished torque, compared to dry threads.

So stop using the torque wrench on filters and drain plugs. Apply some common sense instead. (Even a thin coating works well ) Finger tight, then a bit more and it's done. Not half a turn more, just a little bit. You will feel it become harder to turn, STOP. The crush washer is there only in part to seal, it's also there to try and prevent the heavy handed from stripping the threads.

 

[EdM]

Thanks for all the great and supportive advice I've received so far.

Understood about the use of the torque wrench.

For anyone hitting this thread and looking for the video, I've taken it down so unsuspecting viewers don't think the 3300 oil filter will work. If you really want to see it, send me a PM and I can send you a link. That said, I'm preparing for the full engine rebuild video... What could go wrong?

 

[RCinNC]

I've always kind of adhered to the "finger tight plus a little more" theory. Even on things like axles, using an 18" breaker bar, it's always been along the lines of "finger tight plus about a quarter turn or so". The one place I was very diligent about torque was when I recently serviced my steering head bearings; it was pretty critical that the torque was correct for the bearing, and I did use a torque wrench for the steering head nut. Otherwise, I'm kind of an engineer's nightmare.

 

[snakebitten]

I'm right there with ya RC.

It's always been something I "feel" for. I can't exactly recommend it since I can't describe or measure it.

 

[Ramseybella]

The oil plug fits into that category. finger tight then just a tiny bump with the box end not the ratchet or that bump could sound like crack. ::010::

 

[2daMax]

I found a good tip on Youtube on oil filter removal. Masking tape. Clean off any oil or grease on the oil filter and let dry. Tape around the filter 3X and then turn over so that the sticky side is outwards, do another 2 or 3X. Now you have a very good grip on the filter and just need effort. I did this on the factory installed filter. I suppose, if it was tighten by someone with a wrench enthusiastically , then this may not work.

 

[RCinNC]

I'm right there with ya RC.

It's always been something I "feel" for. I can't exactly recommend it since I can't describe or measure it.

Same here, Snakebitten. I'd never tell someone "ah, don't worry about using a torque wrench", but I'm willing to risk it and tighten by feel. For something a little more critical, like head bolts or bearings, I'd be more precise. If it's one of those parts that I'd be concerned about it coming loose, like a caliper bolt, I'd rather do the "finger tight and a little tighter" method along with some blue Loctite. Like EricV has said, some torque values are based on dry threads, which might not happen in the real world. The rear axle nut on the V-Strom is a good example. In order to prevent galling you had to lube the threads with anti-seize, but the torque settings in the service manual were for dry threads. The torque settings in the manual were way too high for a nut lubed with anti-seize.

To date, in 30 plus years of riding, nothing's come loose, leaked, and I haven't stripped out any threads. Maybe that's more good luck than good management, but it's worked so far.

 

[RonH]

As mentioned, torque value of the filter doesn't matter, just tighten by hand. Good oil filter wrench to remove in case stuck, which they usually are on removal http://www.bigbikeparts.com/templates/product.aspx?ProductGuid=4-201&GroupGuid=16