OIL CHANGE hints & suggestions

[~TABASCO~]

Talking with a customer the other day and he brought up about having to much oil or not enough oil in the motor after a change. He said he put in the correct amount of oil per the service manual. I've seen many Teneres come in the shop that are low on oil or have way to much oil. I had one customer that came in that had way to much oil and was causing issues... So this got me started on how I do it, and things I have noticed on the Tenere over the years... He suggested I write up a little how to (how I do it).... Do it at your own risk, im not responsible.

- Worm up the motor or ride the bike. I normally go for a ride or have everything ready for when I come back from my day ride, Etc...

- I pull both drain plugs and filter while the bike is on the center stand. After the bike has stopped pouring out, and it has now come to a drip I take the bike off the center stand and hold it up. More oil starts pouring out. After that stops for the first time, I put the bike back on the center stand and pull the bike over on the center stand towards me and balance the bike leaned over on the center stand. The oil really starts to pour out again. I hold it there until it becomes a drip. Then I lean back over to the normal position on the center stand and let it sit for thirty minutes or so, and I repeat this sequence again. Each time I bump it off the center stand and put it back up and lean it over on the center stand more oil comes out, way more than a drip. So I do this a total of two or three times and there is not much oil left in the top or anywhere else in the motor. I'm going to give the best guess I can at this, I'm going to guess that after the initial "drain", I bet half to three forth of quart comes out by doing the above. Be safe and do all this if you want at your own risk.

- When I put the oil back in the motor I always start off with one gallon, depending on if the customer brings me there choice of filter I tend to always add about a half of quart above the one gallon. I start the bike two separate times and finally let it sit for twenty minutes before I 'top it off' with the final amount. Mine stays in the middle of the sight glass 99% of the time. I personally would never go off a static number provided by the service manual representing the exact amount of oil you will need. That might get you close, but there are way to many variables. My way is 1 + gal.

This is a lot more work than just pulling the plugs and filling it back up ten minutes later. I will tell you that I have worked on hundreds of Teneres and im going to guess that most all Teneres DONT have the correct amount of oil. Not necessarily going to hurt the motor but if you want the correct amount this info above is important. In half a dozen cases I've seen guys about to blow up a motor with to much or to little oil.... Really bad, crazy stuff... Half of those guys had it changed at the dealer... scary stuff...


Another fun and friendly tech suggestion ! ::008::

 

[WJBertrand]

So a gallon + half a quart for the filter sounds like way too much oil for the bike? I put in 3.75 qt. and it was right at the top of the window. The manual calls for I think a little less, 3.6 qt. Also, the way the drain plugs are angled to the left, it seems like Yamaha intended the bike to be drained on the side stand? You're comments about tipping the bike that direction kind of reinforces that impression to me.

 

[racer]

I was thinking the same thing, that over a gallon sounds like too much, however, Tabasco, you have much more experience than me. I usually dump in a little less than whats called for, start the motor, then, add little by little until the site glass reads correctly. I generally go for a short ride then check it again.

 

[Bryce]

So a gallon + half a quart for the filter sounds like way too much oil for the bike? I put in 3.75 qt. and it was right at the top of the window. The manual calls for I think a little less, 3.6 qt. Also, the way the drain plugs are angled to the left, it seems like Yamaha intended the bike to be drained on the side stand? You're comments about tipping the bike that direction kind of reinforces that impression to me.

I was thinking the same thing.. a gallon (4qt/3.785liters) sure seems like more than needed. I measured it all out to 3.6qt with a ratio-rite cup last time and came in with the oil just under half in the sight glass.
Since I have a ACD racing skid pate, there's no draining from the center stand unless I want to bolt everything back up just for an oil change.

 

[Mellow]

With all due respect, I prefer to do what the service manual says as it was written by those that manufactured the bike. Doesn't mean they are always right of course and every service / owners manuals probably have some inaccuracies but so far, even using the service manual I will be at the center to top of the sight window. And, I will do the off center stand dance with it to so I can get as much old oil out, in the end it's just a very small amount that comes out doing that anyway. I always change the filter and the oil so I don't follow the owners manual there and switch the filter out every other 4k change.

 

[OldRider]

What you guys are forgetting is that TABASCO is going through several cycles of on and off the center stand and rocking and leaning the motorcycle to the side and he's getting out way more oil than you will get out just by pulling the drain plugs. The manual clearly states that the Tenere will hold 4.44 quarts when dry.

 

[OldRider]

With all due respect, I prefer to do what the service manual says as it was written by those that manufactured the bike.

If you work on this stuff long enough, you will find out the guys that write the SM's make a lot of mistakes. One example is replacing the alternator on an 1800 Goldwing. The manual guys say you have to pull the swingarm and fuel tank off to replace it. I can have it replaced before you can get the swingarm off, let alone pulling the fuel tank.

 

[Mellow]

If you work on this stuff long enough, you will find out the guys that write the SM's make a lot of mistakes. One example is replacing the alternator on an 1800 Goldwing. The manual guys say you have to pull the swingarm and fuel tank off to replace it. I can have it replaced before you can get the swingarm off, let alone pulling the fuel tank.

Which is what I said in my original post, so I know that.

The point is you'll never get all the oil out that can possibly hide in the engine so why go through all that trouble, drain the oil and filter and put in 3.6 qts as stated in the manual - that's all I do and it's fine. If you want to do more then that's fine but it's unnecessary IMO of course. But then I take time to wash my bike which makes some member cringe LOL

 

[WJBertrand]

What you guys are forgetting is that TABASCO is going through several cycles of on and off the center stand and rocking and leaning the motorcycle to the side and he's getting out way more oil than you will get out just by pulling the drain plugs. The manual clearly states that the Tenere will hold 4.44 quarts when dry.

I've always considered that total as the number when you are assembling or reassembling a motor that has been completely apart. Can you really drain the Super Tenere's engine completely dry through the drain plus with manipulations??

At any rate, I'm going to follow the service / owner's manual, employing the visual confirmation at the sight glass that the oil level is correct. In my experience, changing the oil and filter and letting the oil drain on the side stand, 3.6 quarts puts it just slightly above the bottom mark on the sight window when the bile is placed on the center stand. I took it to 3.75 to put it right at the top line. 4,000 miles later it has not moved when checked cold in the same spot in my garage. Checking cold allows time for all the old to drain down and for the oil to be at it's lowest volume.

 

[fredz43]

At any rate, I'm going to follow the service / owner's manual, employing the visual confirmation at the sight glass that the oil level is correct. In my experience, changing the oil and filter and letting the oil drain on the side stand, 3.6 quarts puts it just slightly above the bottom mark on the sight window when the bile is placed on the center stand. I took it to 3.75 to put it right at the top line. 4,000 miles later it has not moved when checked cold in the same spot in my garage. Checking cold allows time for all the old to drain down and for the oil to be at it's lowest volume.

Hi Jeff,

You are following the manual as far as oil quantity, but not the procedure for checking the oil level in the sight glass. This is a dry sump engine, so there is a different procedure than on wet sump engines, such as your ST1300. You might check out page 7-12 in the owner's manual.

 

[WJBertrand]

Hi Jeff,

You are following the manual as far as oil quantity, but not the procedure for checking the oil level in the sight glass. This is a dry sump engine, so there is a different procedure than on wet sump engines, such as your ST1300. You might check out page 7-12 in the owner's manual.

Actually that's the same method listed for the ST1300. I notice the level is a little bit higher when warm due to expansion. At any rate it's not a big difference. When warm and checking only a few minutes after shutting off probably leaves more oil up in the engine but the oil, being hot, is thermally expanded. When checking after the bike's been sitting overnight, the oil is contracted but probably more has made its way to the "tank". Seems like it's a wash as the level difference is really small, maybe 3/32 of an inch?

 

[fredz43]

Actually that's the same method listed for the ST1300. I notice the level is a little bit higher when warm due to expansion. At any rate it's not a big difference. When warm and checking only a few minutes after shutting off probably leaves more oil up in the engine but the oil, being hot, is thermally expanded. When checking after the bike's been sitting overnight, the oil is contracted but probably more has made its way to the "tank". Seems like it's a wash as the level difference is really small, maybe 3/32 of an inch?

It is my understanding that you are not looking at the oil level in the engine on the S10, just in the oil tank. On the ST1300, being a wet sump engine, you should be looking at the level in the engine, no? While it is necessary to warm the engine up and then let it sit after an oil change to check the level on the ST1300 or any wet sump bike, this is not required each time you want to check the oil. With the S10, that is the only way you will see the correct level in the glass.

As you say, not a big difference, but it has been my experience after putting over 50,000 miles on 2 S10's the only time I see a correct level in the glass is when doing the 140 degree warm up and then let it sit. FWIW, I drain mine on the side stand, put in 3.6 quarts and forget it until the next oil change. Right after changing it and doing the recommended procedure, it will be about half way up. After that, it will always be above the top of the glass.

 

[~TABASCO~]

What you guys are forgetting is that TABASCO is going through several cycles of on and off the center stand and rocking and leaning the motorcycle to the side and he's getting out way more oil than you will get out just by pulling the drain plugs. The manual clearly states that the Tenere will hold 4.44 quarts when dry.

::003:: ::008::

 

[Spaggy]

I've always just drained mine on the side stand. Next time I'll try putting it upright afterward and see if I can get more oil out. If you're gonna change oil, you might as well change all of it. Thanks Tabasco

 

[klunsford]

Hey Jaxon, when are you coming north and change the oil on mine? ::025:: Thanks for the tips, I have always drained on the side stand and center stand, but never did that many on and offs. I will try it this time.

 

[EricV]

Thanks for sharing your experiences Tabasco. Not knocking your method, but I don't seen any real value in going to the extra effort to drain more oil out than comes out with a center stand drain, plus the tilt to the side until it returns to a drip. I do chuckle a bit about guys that need to spend an hour or let it drain over night for something as simple as an oil change. Even your excellent method doesn't get all of the oil out of the engine. I have other stuff to do. No engine is fully drained during oil changes. What remains in there is a small percentage of the total quantity. Note that the oil, after running the engine, still looks clean after an oil change. If there was so much dirty oil left in it to color the fresh oil, I'd have other thoughts.

And for about the millionth time on the forum, it's a DRY SUMP boys and girls. A little more or a little less oil in the reservoir means nothing as far as the amount of oil in the ENGINE. The engine always gets a finite amount pumped into it and stays at that level.

 

[Mellow]

Thanks for sharing your experiences Tabasco. Not knocking your method, but I don't seen any real value in going to the extra effort to drain more oil out than comes out with a center stand drain, plus the tilt to the side until it returns to a drip. I do chuckle a bit about guys that need to spend an hour or let it drain over night for something as simple as an oil change. Even your excellent method doesn't get all of the oil out of the engine. I have other stuff to do. No engine is fully drained during oil changes. What remains in there is a small percentage of the total quantity. Note that the oil, after running the engine, still looks clean after an oil change. If there was so much dirty oil left in it to color the fresh oil, I'd have other thoughts.

And for about the millionth time on the forum, it's a DRY SUMP boys and girls. A little more or a little less oil in the reservoir means nothing as far as the amount of oil in the ENGINE. The engine always gets a finite amount pumped into it and stays at that level.

Yup, interestingly enough the owners manual says as a tip the level should be between min/max and it has a warning if it's below min to add but nothing about being above max where in a wet sump owners manual it usually states drain if there's more.

 

[~TABASCO~]

Hey Jaxon, when are you coming north and change the oil on mine? ::025:: Thanks for the tips, I have always drained on the side stand and center stand, but never did that many on and offs. I will try it this time.

Its also pulling the bike over on the center stand that drains out a lot more...

 

[~TABASCO~]

Thanks for sharing your experiences Tabasco. Not knocking your method, but I don't seen any real value in going to the extra effort to drain more oil out than comes out with a center stand drain, plus the tilt to the side until it returns to a drip. I do chuckle a bit about guys that need to spend an hour or let it drain over night for something as simple as an oil change. Even your excellent method doesn't get all of the oil out of the engine. I have other stuff to do. No engine is fully drained during oil changes. What remains in there is a small percentage of the total quantity. Note that the oil, after running the engine, still looks clean after an oil change. If there was so much dirty oil left in it to color the fresh oil, I'd have other thoughts.

And for about the millionth time on the forum, it's a DRY SUMP boys and girls. A little more or a little less oil in the reservoir means nothing as far as the amount of oil in the ENGINE. The engine always gets a finite amount pumped into it and stays at that level.

Yep, I agree with what you just stated.. The customer asked what I did to my own bike, he found it interesting and asked if I would post what I did..... For me and synthetic, I guess I do all this monkey business about one or two times a year and its no biggie...

Other folks- Most customers / friends I run into change the oil the 'normal' way like people keep posting and they are ready to rock.. No problem with this at all.. This conversation is not pointing fingers or wrong or right, its simply a style that I do, and someone ask me to post it up, that's it... ::008::

Have a great day ! ::008::

 

[WJBertrand]

It is my understanding that you are not looking at the oil level in the engine on the S10, just in the oil tank. On the ST1300, being a wet sump engine, you should be looking at the level in the engine, no? While it is necessary to warm the engine up and then let it sit after an oil change to check the level on the ST1300 or any wet sump bike, this is not required each time you want to check the oil. With the S10, that is the only way you will see the correct level in the glass.

As you say, not a big difference, but it has been my experience after putting over 50,000 miles on 2 S10's the only time I see a correct level in the glass is when doing the 140 degree warm up and then let it sit. FWIW, I drain mine on the side stand, put in 3.6 quarts and forget it until the next oil change. Right after changing it and doing the recommended procedure, it will be about half way up. After that, it will always be above the top of the glass.

That's my understanding too Fred. I don't think there's anything we can do to affect the level of oil in the engine, that's dependent on what the pump delivers and how much drips off and accumulates in the crankcase when the engine is shut off or when running how much the scavenge pump returns to the tank (assuming that's how the oil gets from the crank back to the tank?). This is not my first dry sump engine as my old Norton Interstate also had such an engine. Instead of being cast into the crank case though, there was a separate oil tank under the right side of the seat. That bike had a dip stick attached to the oil tank cap to monitor the level. As long as there's adequate oil in the "tank" to feed the lubrication system and enough volume not to overheat/overwork the oil that's there, things should be jolly. I was concerned about over-filling the tank as on my Norton that would cause the oil to overflow when it fully thermally expanded and dump oil, potentially in front of the rear tire. How does the Tenere handle over filling? Does it spill over into the crank case?