Notchy Shifting with Rotella T6 -- after about 1000 miles...

[MotoPumps]

I have been a fan of Rotella T6 for a while, and the price, for a synth has not been too bad.

I noticed this a bit with my VStrom, but it is really pronounced with the Super Ten. I change the oil and the shifting is significantly smoother. Within about 1000 miles, it feels like a two stage shift -- that is you can feel it coming out of one gear and going into the next, especially on downshifts.

I did a fresh oil change before going down to the Blue Ridge and Smokeys to play for a week and again, within 1000 miles, it was notchy again. I changed it last night at about 2600 miles, putting in Suzuki brand conventional 10-40. Back to smooth shifting again. Very pronounced difference in the shifting feel.

Anyone else experience this?

Thanks-

Rob

 

[avc8130]

Rob,

I have experienced similar. I think next change I'll put in the 15w40 conventional.

ac

 

[MotoPumps]

I know the gears are tough on the oil, but I really would like to find something that lasts a bit better...

 

[coastie]

I switched to Rotella dino oil and mine has been smooth as silk for over 4k miles now.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2

 

[autoteach]

I believe this is the problem, but I may just be wrong:
there is not enough ZDDP:
http://barsproducts.com/blog/the-straight-scoop-on-zddp-zinc-additives


I noticed this with my Honda Superhawk and Rotella. It got kinda loud, and clunky, in the gearbox. Always felt like I grenaded a trans by 1500 miles, and it made me feel bad about not changing the oil until 3000 miles. So, the answer is relatively easy, better shifts come with more expensive oils.

 

[xr400guy]

Sooooo...... What is the best oil to use? Price not considered

 

[motoguy]

Just changed mine to Mobil 1 0w-40. Only a couple hundred miles on it so far so good. Had YamaLube semi synth from the dealer before.

 

[la-motor]

Ooh...Is this going to be the next oil thread? ::017::

 

[autoteach]

Ooh...Is this going to be the next oil thread? ::017::

Honestly, there should be an oil thread on each motorcycle forum covering the basics. If you use a motorcycle intended oil, it will likely not have any issues.
Learn here: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/

But, the simple is this. NO friction modifiers in wet clutch bikes. Molybdenum Disulfide is awesome stuff, if you don't like your bike to move. If you have a dry clutch, a moly oil will rule.
ZDDP (zinc) is very good stuff. The important thing to realize when buying oil for your motorcycle engine is that you are also buying oil for your transmission and clutch. It requires a different additive package then a truck engine with separate fluids for every device. Realize that you also purchased a high specific hp/liter machine. Your 4.6 liter mustang would have to have about 420 crank hp to equal your Super Tenere, and if you were looking at a R6 the mustang would have to put almost 800hp to the wheels. In either case, would you buy the cheapest oil?

In the end, I am not saying that Rotella will damage your bike. I am saying that it will not yield the same results as a motorcycle specific oil. Could it with an additive? Yes, but I am not trying because:
Rotella: $13
Zinc Additive: ~$15
total: $28

Gallon Honda GN4 at our shop: $25.50
Bikemaster Gallon: $25.50
Bikemaster Full syn: $38
A full oil/filter(factory specific) change with Belray 10/40 or 20/50: $50

I can't see the benefit of buying "cheap" oil. Now, off my ::009::

 

[mcbrien]

Just changed mine to Mobil 1 0w-40. Only a couple hundred miles on it so far so good. Had YamaLube semi synth from the dealer before.

What's the reasoning for picking 0w/40 ? I've always used 15/50 in my bikes .

 

[avc8130]

Rotella must have changed their formula to meet the new diesel emissions standards. 5 years ago we all went to Rotella for the excellent shifting.

 

[hANNAbONE]

I keep tellin' all of you...

Mobil1 10/40 silver cap.

never ever a problem

 

[ejy712]

I have been a fan of Rotella T6 for a while, and the price, for a synth has not been too bad.

I noticed this a bit with my VStrom, but it is really pronounced with the Super Ten. I change the oil and the shifting is significantly smoother. Within about 1000 miles, it feels like a two stage shift -- that is you can feel it coming out of one gear and going into the next, especially on downshifts.

I did a fresh oil change before going down to the Blue Ridge and Smokeys to play for a week and again, within 1000 miles, it was notchy again. I changed it last night at about 2600 miles, putting in Suzuki brand conventional 10-40. Back to smooth shifting again. Very pronounced difference in the shifting feel.

Anyone else experience this?

Thanks-

Rob

Hi Rob.

Has your S10 always behaved this way with T6? The reason I asked is that I experienced the same symptoms your describe. The problem was actually a failing "Shift shaft spring". Since I had the broken spring replaced my shifting is perfect. I have over 3700 miles on my current oil change (Rotella T6) and still shifting smoothly. I'm not saying this is your problem. But the symptoms you describe suggest it.

For more details:
http://www.yamahasupertenere.com/index.php?topic=8527.0

Ed

 

[20valves]

I tried Rotella (non-syn) in my FJR (bike shop was closed that day) for the first time ever and got this sticky shifting action right away. Went back to Yamalube and all is well. I have used Yamalube in the Super Ten from day one and have never any issues. I use Yamalube in the bikes and no longer think about oil at all except when to change it. This same Rotella sticky shifting thread is on the FJR forum.

 

[OldRider]

I have a personal rule about getting into oil threads, but I'll jump in this one time. I've been in the business a little over 40 years and I sell about a dozen different brands of oil. I firmly believe that MC specific oil does have additives in it for the clutch and transmission that car oil doesn't have. Over the years the number one oil that most all customers have said they could really tell a difference in was the Honda 10/40 HP4 semi-syn.

My personal experience with HP4 was with a 79 CBX I had. It had set for most of it's life and had about 2K miles on it and it had a lot of primary chain noise. The best I could figure was that the primary chain tensioner had stuck and was letting the chain slap too much. I changed the oil a couple of times and it didn't do any good, so I thought I'd give the HP4 a try since all the Goldwing riders bragged about it so much. Changed the oil, rode it 50 miles and it was as quiet as brand new. Since then it's been HP4 in everything I ride. I've had a lot of customers give the HP4 a try and they always come back for more. YMMV.

 

[MotoPumps]

Thanks Ed. I have about 16k miles on the bike and am not having actual problems with it not shifting, but it does feel notchy and two stage-ish in the downshifts with the Rotella. It is better with the Suzuki 10 40. The oil had much more of a "sulphur" smell, like dif lube... Anybody know what that smell is? Zink? :question: O

Having seen a couple of those failures, I will keep that in mind. Glad it is easy to get to...

Rob

Hi Rob.

Has your S10 always behaved this way with T6? The reason I asked is that I experienced the same symptoms your describe. The problem was actually a failing "Shift shaft spring". Since I had the broken spring replaced my shifting is perfect. I have over 3700 miles on my current oil change (Rotella T6) and still shifting smoothly. I'm not saying this is your problem. But the symptoms you describe suggest it.

For more details:
http://www.yamahasupertenere.com/index.php?topic=8527.0

Ed

 

[motoguy]

What's the reasoning for picking 0w/40 ? I've always used 15/50 in my bikes .

I like the 0w-40 because its thinner at start up, getting to where it needs to be faster. At least that was what I was taught. Used it on my KLR now for more than 20k

 

[ejy712]

Thanks Ed. I have about 16k miles on the bike and am not having actual problems with it not shifting, but it does feel notchy and two stage-ish in the downshifts with the Rotella. It is better with the Suzuki 10 40. The oil had much more of a "sulphur" smell, like dif lube... Anybody know what that smell is? Zink? :question: O

Having seen a couple of those failures, I will keep that in mind. Glad it is easy to get to...

Hi again Rob,

I should have been more clear. The early symptoms I had were what you describe at about the same mileage. I found that new oil reduced the problem, which came back as the oil aged. As it got worse I considered going to a different oil. Cleaning the shift lever pivot also helped at first. I believe that as the spring weakened the shifting mechanism became much more dependent on good lubrication to function correctly. Eventually the spring became so weak that lube didn't help. It will be interesting to me to track the progress of your problem to see if the spring is the culprit.

So I guess the real question in your case is: Has your clunky shifting always been a problem, or is it deteriorating with time? My bike shifted perfectly when new, and got worse with time.

The other data point I offer is that shifting has returned to perfect since the spring replacement. Snick, snick, snick up or down even with aged (3800 miles now) Rotella T6. I think your problem is probably mechanical as opposed to oil lubricity. I can't imagine our bikes are so different that oil will be your long term solution.

At least you are now aware of the possibility. Good luck and please keep this forum informed of your progress.

Ed

P.S. As an interesting historical note: your advice is what got me started using Rotella T6. It's a great oil. I will continue to use it.

 

[tpak]

Over in htis thread http://www.yamahasupertenere.com/index.php?topic=1494.msg141569#msg141569 EricV says he is using " ... T6 full synthetic oil along with half a bottle of STP for added zinc."

"STP oil treatment, (small blue bottle), does not have any friction modifiers in it. It does have additional zinc, which aids in reducing gear wear and improves shifting smoothness."

I'm curious though as to why Shell would have chaged the formulation - they won't meddle with something like that lightly on the Rotella franchise. I know the diesel changed a few years ago but why would they change their oil as a result?

 

[avc8130]

They had to update the formula to be compatible with the epa mandated emissions components.