Notchy Shifting with Rotella T6 -- after about 1000 miles...

[MotoPumps]

Thanks Ed- That makes more sense now. I will continue to track this. To answer your question, no, it didn't always shift that way. Hmmmmm.

I do recall that Rotella changed the formulation about 3 years ago. I have also added STP to some of the oil changes, including the last one with Rotella T6...

I will check in with my local Yamaha dealership to see if they are ready to do my spring. Now thinking about doing it as a preventive measure.

So, since I like to do all my own work, anybody know if there are any special tools required to put the new spring in?

Rob

 

[tpak]

They had to update the formula to be compatible with the epa mandated emissions components.

but the existing fleet didn't get those components. Millions of diesels just started getting the low sulfur fuel 3 years ago. Wouldn't all those big rigs running this stuff just want to see a new version like T7 rather than take away something? Not arguing, just curious. Of course I don't know enough about diesels so maybe there is more fuel/oil interaction than in a gas powered motor?

 

[creggur]

I keep tellin' all of you...

Mobil1 10/40 silver cap.

never ever a problem

THIS!

Been using it for years, and never a single solitary issue. Not even an iota of an issue (shifting, etc...).

Is it a little pricey? Sure. But considering what we spend on bikes, farkles, etc. it's a small premium to pay every four thousand miles to not worry about this kind of stuff.

 

[avc8130]

but the existing fleet didn't get those components. Millions of diesels just started getting the low sulfur fuel 3 years ago. Wouldn't all those big rigs running this stuff just want to see a new version like T7 rather than take away something? Not arguing, just curious. Of course I don't know enough about diesels so maybe there is more fuel/oil interaction than in a gas powered motor?

Yeah, I dunno. I have a diesel truck (2006 w/ Cat & EGR but NO other emissions from the factory) so I have been watching this happen. I don't know the exact chemistry, but here might be something that makes sense:

"Old":
CI-4 Current Introduced in 2002 for high-speed four-stroke engines. Designed to meet 2004 exhaust emission standards implemented in 2002. CI-4 oils are formulated to sustain engine durability where exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) is used and are intented for use with diesel fuels ranging in sulphur content up to 0.5% weight. Can be used in place of CD, CE, CF-4, CG-4 and CH-4

"New":
CJ-4 Current Introduced in 2006 for high-speed four-stroke engines. Designed to meet 2007 on-highway exhaust emission standards. CJ-4 oils are compounded for use in all applications with diesel fuels ranging in sulphur content up to 500ppm (0.05% by weight). However, use of these oils with greater than 15ppm sulfur fuel may impact exhaust aftertreatment system durability and/or oil drain intervals. CJ-4 oils are effective at sustaining emission control system durability where particulate filters and other advanced aftertreatment systems are used. CJ-4 oils exceed the performance criteria of CF-4, CG-4, CH-4 and CI-4.

Read more: http://www.carbibles.com/engineoil_bible.html#ixzz2Zib6JjGz

ac

 

[ejy712]

Thanks Ed- That makes more sense now. I will continue to track this. To answer your question, no, it didn't always shift that way. Hmmmmm.

I do recall that Rotella changed the formulation about 3 years ago. I have also added STP to some of the oil changes, including the last one with Rotella T6...

I will check in with my local Yamaha dealership to see if they are ready to do my spring. Now thinking about doing it as a preventive measure.

So, since I like to do all my own work, anybody know if there are any special tools required to put the new spring in?

If it is the spring note that mine failed slowly. Unless you are going on a trip you can probably let things progress. If you start missing downshifts regularly then change the spring. I'll keep following this thread as I am very interested in what you find.

 

[MotoPumps]

My next big trip is the first week of October. I am going to watch this through August and the first week of Sept, then make a decision about replacing it proactively.

Stay tuned!

Rob

 

[tpak]

Yeah, I dunno. I have a diesel truck (2006 w/ Cat & EGR but NO other emissions from the factory) so I have been watching this happen. I don't know the exact chemistry, but here might be something that makes sense:

"Old":
CI-4 Current Introduced in 2002 for high-speed four-stroke engines. Designed to meet 2004 exhaust emission standards implemented in 2002. CI-4 oils are formulated to sustain engine durability where exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) is used and are intented for use with diesel fuels ranging in sulphur content up to 0.5% weight. Can be used in place of CD, CE, CF-4, CG-4 and CH-4

"New":
CJ-4 Current Introduced in 2006 for high-speed four-stroke engines. Designed to meet 2007 on-highway exhaust emission standards. CJ-4 oils are compounded for use in all applications with diesel fuels ranging in sulphur content up to 500ppm (0.05% by weight). However, use of these oils with greater than 15ppm sulfur fuel may impact exhaust aftertreatment system durability and/or oil drain intervals. CJ-4 oils are effective at sustaining emission control system durability where particulate filters and other advanced aftertreatment systems are used. CJ-4 oils exceed the performance criteria of CF-4, CG-4, CH-4 and CI-4.

Read more: http://www.carbibles.com/engineoil_bible.html#ixzz2Zib6JjGz

ac

Thanks

Hmmm .... scratches head, moves right along and keeps on keepin on ...

 

[avc8130]

Thanks

Hmmm .... scratches head, moves right along and keeps on keepin on ...

Yeah...on my tractor where I run higher sulfur off road fuel I know I have to halve my oil change interval if I use the new CJ-4 stuff. I'm not happy about that.

ac

 

[yukondood]

pull off your shifter and clean, I thought same thing and realized it was a service issue not oil.

 

[MotoPumps]

pull off your shifter and clean, I thought same thing and realized it was a service issue not oil.

Yeah, always the first thing I check. It is clean, lightly lubed and not the issue on my bike.

Rob

 

[MotoPumps]

Now, while commuting back and forth to work, I am pretty focused on each shift, up or down, evaluating how the lever feels, how much pressure it takes to spring back, any false neutrals or missed downshifts, etc. (none so far)

I think the thing to do would be to measure the spring pressure the shifter exerts while the bike is not running and not moving. I don't have a tool for that, but I could probably figure something out with a very accurate fishing scale or something.

At any rate, aside from being hyper vigilant and paranoid, I am considering a proactive replacement...

...or the alternative... ::021::

Rob

 

[MotoPumps]

Dropped the Super Ten off at the Yamaha dealer yesterday at lunch time. Have not heard back from them yet, but their plan is to see if Yamaha will help with the bill even though I am outside the warranty and didn't buy Y.E.S. I did get an ear full from the service manager about the value of Y.E.S. :

Rode the FJR in to work this morning and realized that I had no idea how notchy the shifting had become in the Super Ten. Hopefully this spring replacement will take care of things and no harm came from all the notchy shifting...

More info as soon as I hear back from the dealer.

Rob

 

[ejy712]

What did you find out from the dealer -- just curious.

I'm now at 4500 miles on the last Rotella T6 oil change. Shifting is still perfect. I usually change oil every 4000 miles but did the last one 500 miles early because of a pending trip.

 

[MotoPumps]

It was a very unsatisfactory visit with the dealer. The service manager rode the bike and said it shifts fine. He did talk to Yamaha and they have only sold 22 of the springs over some amount of time I don't know, and since the spring fits many models, that is an indicator that there is NOT a problem.

The guy he spoke to said that whey they see that spring fail, it is usually because the bike has been down on the shift lever and internal parts were stressed by the crash...

I tried to explain that I have been riding since 1979 and living with this bike every day for 17,000 miles and I know when its health changes. No traction with that.

So, I will continue to ride and hope that I am just paranoid. I do think the downshifting is not as clean as the upshifting, but it must be me...

Rob

 

[avc8130]

It was a very unsatisfactory visit with the dealer. The service manager rode the bike and said it shifts fine. He did talk to Yamaha and they have only sold 22 of the springs over some amount of time I don't know, and since the spring fits many models, that is an indicator that there is NOT a problem.

The guy he spoke to said that whey they see that spring fail, it is usually because the bike has been down on the shift lever and internal parts were stressed by the crash...

I tried to explain that I have been riding since 1979 and living with this bike every day for 17,000 miles and I know when its health changes. No traction with that.

So, I will continue to ride and hope that I am just paranoid. I do think the downshifting is not as clean as the upshifting, but it must be me...

Rob

Rob,

If you are really worried, why not just pop the side cover and take a look? If you are indeed correct, march back into the dealer and throw the broken spring at him while you tell him you are ordering it from an online dealer hoping he goes out of business since he is useless to you anyways.

ac

 

[OldRider]

It was a very unsatisfactory visit with the dealer. The service manager rode the bike and said it shifts fine. He did talk to Yamaha and they have only sold 22 of the springs over some amount of time I don't know, and since the spring fits many models, that is an indicator that there is NOT a problem.

The guy he spoke to said that whey they see that spring fail, it is usually because the bike has been down on the shift lever and internal parts were stressed by the crash...

I tried to explain that I have been riding since 1979 and living with this bike every day for 17,000 miles and I know when its health changes. No traction with that.

So, I will continue to ride and hope that I am just paranoid. I do think the downshifting is not as clean as the upshifting, but it must be me...

Rob

They fed you some BS.

That spring is used to bring the shifter back to center. The spring is part # 90508-32020-00 and Yamaha uses it in over 100 different models. The spring could be damaged in a fall over, but there would have to be other damage as well. The shifter goes up against a stop pin that limits it's travel in each direction. In order to stress the spring past it every day use limit, the stop pin or the shifter itself would have to break and if this happened it would be very obvious.

 

[MotoPumps]

Well, at this point, I am going to ::021::

It will either break or not. If it breaks, I will publicly shame the service manage and revel in how smart I am. If it doesn't break or get worse, I will just keep riding...