Lumpy slow speed/rev behavior

lovememyxt

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From the first day my(2012) bike has not been very easy to ride in stop and go, or other low rev situations. I have to slip the clutch far too much to keep the bike from lumping about when transitioning into the gas. This even after a flashing(by my unprofessional self) of the ECU that is supposed to help smooth things out in that regard. Once on the move the engine is a pleasure, but this lumpiness really annoys me. Is this a common S10 characteristic? Are there fixes?
 

Don in Lodi

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Have the throttle bodies ever been synchronized? Un-balanced throttle bodies are much more noticeable at idle and just off idle conditions.
 

twinrider

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lovememyxt said:
From the first day my(2012) bike has not been very easy to ride in stop and go, or other low rev situations. I have to slip the clutch far too much to keep the bike from lumping about when transitioning into the gas. This even after a flashing(by my unprofessional self) of the ECU that is supposed to help smooth things out in that regard. Once on the move the engine is a pleasure, but this lumpiness really annoys me. Is this a common S10 characteristic? Are there fixes?
I noticed a significant improvement with the '14~ clutch basket. It pulls low revs much more smoothly now.
 

Rasher

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Not being funny here, but have you ridden big twins before :question: they all tend to be a bit lumpy down low. I remember the standard bike being fairly good (for a big twin) except for the off-idle stumble and stupid restrictions

I had mine custom flashed on a dyno with each cylinder being mapped separately and the fueling is as good as it can be and it is still not as smooth of the bottom as most 3 and 4 cylinder bikes, I can drop below 1500rpm and pull away smoothly in upper gears and down to just above idle in low gears, but this is not how these engines are supposed to be used.
 

Checkswrecks

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Many of the early bikes had a bad off-idle stumble problem. Search the site and you will find numerous threads about it and fortunately the "how to" and step by step fixes have been pretty well documented. The biggest improvements will be from:


Change the CO setting.
Turn out the right throttle body screw 3/4 turn.
Sync the throttle bodies
 

surfinpig

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I've been dealing with this issue. FN sucks. So far I have arrow headers, 2 brothers can, adjusted and synced throttle body's like 5 times, and spent 450 on ecunleashed flash. Next is power commander with auto tune. After that I'm going to loose 5g on a trade for a Africa twin and probably bitch about that.
 

taskmaster86

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My 2014 model is doing the same thing. If I hold the throttle just right, at the just the right rpm, the bike lurches forward very rhythmically and really makes me look stupid when trying to travel slowly through a parking lot lol. I have even dropped my bike trying to make a sharp turn around because of this. I have learned to just slip the clutch and work around it but I really wish I didn't have to.

I am really hoping it just needs a throttle body sync. Any other suggestions?
 

Tempesc

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I have written to Yamaha on this point to ask whether they consider this a normal characteristic of the bike or a set up issue that should not be present. No response yet but plan to persist and will share.

In the meantime i would say:
1. It should not be like this (my previous big twin was much smoother riding constant throttle in town)
2. What really annoyed me back to back with my last bike at the beginning passes with the miles - it just becomes how it is and you notice it less/ride round it more
3. For the gen 2 at least, getting to grips with the hair trigger sport mode helps but takes time and miles
4. The bike is awesome in other areas and as i didn't buy it to ride in town the positives outweigh the negatives




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Dogdaze

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I will just add food for thought, I noticed the twitchy throttle, and strapped a length of 6mm diameter shock cord between the throttle housing and grip, this had the effect of reducing any minor input from me that was through road imperfections and muscle control (or lack of it). This has improved the 'smoothness' of the throttle, it may work for you. I also had big v-twins for may years and got around the overly sensitive on-off EFI throttle by using more throttle, clutch slip and rear brake.
 

Rodge

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lovememyxt said:
From the first day my(2012) bike has not been very easy to ride in stop and go, or other low rev situations. I have to slip the clutch far too much to keep the bike from lumping about when transitioning into the gas. This even after a flashing(by my unprofessional self) of the ECU that is supposed to help smooth things out in that regard. Once on the move the engine is a pleasure, but this lumpiness really annoys me. Is this a common S10 characteristic? Are there fixes?
Hi, based on my own experience with FT, your throttle map is most likely too aggressive at the bottom combined with too much ignition advance...
Try the '14 unrestricted T mode map, yes T mode, it is very nice for the drivability... and fast enough...LOL! take my word for it...
It does not matter if the map column headers don't show the same values on top (1st and 2nd columns) when compared to Gen 1 & Gen 2, copy the whole table values and paste.
In the ignition advance S table I use 1 degree for 1st, 2 for 2nd, 3 for 3rd, 4 for 4, 5 for 5 and 6 for 6th gear...
That gave me 95% of my drivability I was looking for... pulls from a stop signs in 2nd gear nice and smooth, can ride the bike down low all day...
Try that and let us know how it's working...
Cheers
 

Kevhunts

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lovememyxt said:
From the first day my(2012) bike has not been very easy to ride in stop and go, or other low rev situations. I have to slip the clutch far too much to keep the bike from lumping about when transitioning into the gas. This even after a flashing(by my unprofessional self) of the ECU that is supposed to help smooth things out in that regard. Once on the move the engine is a pleasure, but this lumpiness really annoys me. Is this a common S10 characteristic? Are there fixes?
I don't have any personal knowledge on how well these work but might be worth a try.
http://www.g2ergo.com/product-category/street/
 

Tempesc

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Tempesc said:
I have written to Yamaha on this point to ask whether they consider this a normal characteristic of the bike or a set up issue that should not be present. No response yet but plan to persist and will share.
I followed this up with Yamaha UK. I am sharing their response below (my clarifications in square brackets).

"Thank you for your email addressed to our Technical Service Department, in relation to your Yamaha XT1200Z Super Tenere and may we please first apologise for the delay in our response.

With regards to the points you raise, as previously advised, after checking their records in relation to the XT1200Z , our Technical staff have advised that they indicate no undue concerns with regards to the fuelling on the UK/European models of this motorcycle in general and subsequently, no factory recommended modifications.

Whilst on other models, recently for owners of the 2014 MT-09 who may have some issue with the nature of their machines throttle response, there was a minor, non-reversible reprogramming of the ECU available, to reduce the sensitivity.

However, there is no Yamaha recommended remapping applicable, or available, for the XT1200Z Super Tenere.

Regarding the ‘Painted Screw’ you refer to, we can advise that this does not adjust the fuel mixture. It is for synchronisation of the idle and not to be adjusted, as it is set at the factory.

From your previous email correspondence, we understand that Fowlers [my local dealer] have checked the operation of your machine at the 600 mile service and have advised, that it’s performance in Touring Mode is comparable with other machines of the same model and operating in a similar manner. Subsequently, unless you have reason to suspect that this area of performance has since deteriorated, we would advise that the phenomenon you describe concerning the fuelling, to be a commensurate with other machines and no further action necessary. Naturally we would not recommend the fitting of the aftermarket component you mention [Power Commander V and/or re-flash], as this has not been subject to any relevant testing by the Yamaha factory and could subsequently effect the warranty.

We are sorry that you have had to contact us and again apologise for the delay in responding to you and whilst we understand you may be disappointed with a certain area of your machine, hope that our above comments, may help to alleviate any concerns."

I am somewhat disappointed with this reply so am going to seek further clarification from Yamaha.


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Dogdaze

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Thanks for sharing Tempesc. On a moot point, having experienced Fowlers, I would not think that they gave this issue enough gravity to YAM UK, and subsequently you received the response that got.
Whilst highly annoying, most Fi bikes are never as smooth as carb bikes, twitchy, jerky and generally a pain at slow speeds, however, there has been a marked improvement with this, getting a remap has worked for a vast number of owners. As you are in Bristol, try CJS Racing (Bristol) they have done wonders for members on here...... FWIW.
 

Tempesc

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Thanks Dogdaze. I did try and call CJS earlier this week but didnt get an answer.

Im the meantime i've bought a Power Commander V off the forum. From my reading (here) i think the issue may well be the bike running too lean on closed loop. The PCV will allow me to test this.

If not resolved i'll get CJS to flash the ecu.

How's your brother doing btw.


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Dogdaze

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Keep trying CJS, Rasher could not speak more highly of him, but he is busy..... apparently, if all else fails there is Velox in one of the Channel Islands.
As for my brother, he's doing better, replaced a shoulder blade twice, third time lucky? Needs a knee replaced and having lost the spleen, medication for the rest of his life, all other bones healed or replaced with titanium, but other than that, tickity boo ::008:: Thanks for asking
 

Mak595

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CJS reflashed my ECU, not a full custom tune, I just sent the ECU to Geoff, running a full arrow system, runs great.....
 

Berg_Donk

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I removed my '12s headers so I could pull the suspension linkage for greasing and noted that the header gaskets had a small leak. After reassembly with a light application of sensor safe silicone on the gaskets, I couldn't tell a difference in the noise, and it wasn't noisy like a leak before anyway, but could feel a noticaeble improvement in low speed throttle control which I attributed to fixing the leak, and the O2 sensors getting a better signal as a result. It was a nice unintended/unexpected consequence of lubing the linkage.
 

pooh and xtine

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I fitted a couple of O2 eliminators from ebay and this made an enormous difference to the drivability of my '14 ST. Fuel consumption is about 2 mpg worse, but I'm riding it harder 'cos it's such a joy now. The eliminators just stop the bike running in closed loop at lower revs / throttle openings, so now it operates in open loop all the time using the base maps and sensors (except the O2 sensors, of course). Excellent improvement for less than £20.
 
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