Looking for a lighter bike

[jcdas]

Hi folks.

My current bike is a 1986 Yamaha Venture Royale. It's getting a bit old, but not worn out yet! My problem is that I'm getting older too (61), and riding an 800 lbs motorcycle is becoming hard work.

I've taken test rides on a BMW R1200GS, R1200RT, and a Yamaha FJR1300. The FJR felt like a lighter version of my Venture, but the wind noise was pretty loud. In similar weather conditions, the GS was amazingly quiet, fast, and handled really nice. Didn't have a chance to ride off road. I also rode a new Honda 750 with knobbies in an 'adventure' set up. Also lots of wind noise. Limited pillion seating area. Too basic for me.

I've been checking various forums trying to figure out what I want. Seems like lots of people are having issues with BMW final drives.

Met a guy at the Ontario Horizons Unlimited event who had ridden his S10 to the tip of South America without any problems. So that got my interest.

I noticed a thread talking about things that they liked, or missed. I was really surprised to read that the S10 does NOT have automatic cancelling turn signals. What ... All 4 of my Yamaha's going back to 1976 have had that feature that I really appreciate. Why would Yamaha have not included is really surprising to me.

I'll probably keep my Venture Royale for trips with my wife, and get a lighter bike for local trips without bags. I'm thinking about taking some longer trips. James Bay. Alaska and Newfoundland are on my radar for now. So a newer bike would be better for great distances than a 30 year old bike, no mater how reliable it's been so far.

 

[greg the pole]

hi there!
well, if your biggest gripe is the lack of self cancelling turnsignals, then you will love the tenere. ::015::

No issues here. 60xxx km of hard use here, and no issues or complaints. There are several members that are well over 200xxx km with no real issues.

 

[martin_nj]

Tenere stock wind noise really depends on your helmet, and physical dimensions

 

[wessie]

If you want a light bike for pootling around on then look at the Yamaha MT/FZ/FJ range. MT07 is great fun but I wouldn't want to ride it over long distances. It would be a good urban bike and fun in the twisties on a Sunday. There are other versions in the pipeline with half fairings or adventure styling which may be better all rounders.

I changed from a Super Tenere to a MT/FJ09 Tracer due to ill health and wanting a lighter bike. This is a great bike and under 200kg/440lb. I've done 5500 miles since the change in March including an 1800 mile trip to France. I also use the bike to commute 10 miles to my office on a combination of rural and urban roads. It is a great all rounder, possible the best UJM yet. There is supposedly an adventure styled bike with the 850cc triple engine in the near future.

 

[jcdas]

Thanks all for you feedback.

I really like my past and current Yamahas for their shaft drives. Just plain bullet proof. Just lube the splines and change the oil every couple of years. So I'd rather avoid a chain drive bike.
I did have a look at the FJ09 here in Canada. Nice looking, but not much of a seat for a pillion rider. And chain drive.

I have a new Schuberth C3, so I have a really quiet helmet. I'm 6' tall, 170 lbs, 34" in seam. Wind noise seemed minimal on the R1200GS. That ride started my deeper investigation into a replacement / additional bike. Was surprised by how clunky the transmission was though. My Venture only clunks on downshift to 1st. So I know when I'm there. Had problems with the GS when it clunked downshifting into 3rd. Thought I was in 1st, and stalled at a light. Then forgot that it had 6 gears instead of 5. Oh well. Takes a little longer to teach an old guy something new.

I was going to do a test ride on the S10, but a spot on the FJR1300 came up. Was my favourite bike for a long time, so I had to ride it. Feels really nice. Everything just fit and works great. Just a bit smaller and tighter than my Venture Royale. Engine, Transmission, Clutch, controls, handling felt just like my Venture, only 30 years better.

I guess I can do without the Self Cancelling turn signals. The Honda I test rode didn't have self cancelling signals. Lead rider kept reminding me to turn them off. Just shows how I'm used to them and expected ALL bikes to have them by now. ::009::

I have a background in electronics and software development, so I could probably engineer my own solution. Maybe 2016 model will have it ????

 

[barkingllizard]

a simple hello, jcdas.....

 

[Tyke]

Hello and welcome from the U.K ::008::

 

[greg the pole]

. There is supposedly an adventure styled bike with the 850cc triple engine in the near future.

I hope I'm wrong, but unless yamaha sees the light, no 3 cyl, or 700cc 2 cyl tenere is forth coming.
Looking at the latest spy photos of the FJ-07 Yamaha has no intention of building a smaller tenere.

 

[ace50]

I traded my Royal Star Tour Deluxe, similar to your Royale, for my S10 and have NO regrets. They are a heavy bike!
With me ON the S10, it's still lighter than the RS all by it's self!

It is a lot taller bike, but I think the riding position is more comfortable. Good luck.

 

[AKC Tenere]

Possibly look at going down the Maxi scooter route?
The latest Suzuki Burgman 650 is Bentley comfort.
The Tmax 530 is sporty comfort.
Both are expensive to service though.

 

[markjenn]

Weight is all relative, but one of the drawbacks of the S10 is that it is among the heaviest in its class. So if you're making lighter weight a priority and you end up deciding a big adv bike is for you, you probably want to look at either the KTM 1190, Suzuki V-Strom 1000, or BMW R1200GS. (Both the KTM and Suzuki are chain drive, but that's one of the main reasons they're lighter. The GS is probably the lightest shaft drive big adv bike and it will not probably be as reliable as the Yamaha, but all bikes have their weak spots and the bike is reliable enough for most.)

If you really are serious about a lighter-weight bike and are keeping another bike for long trips, I'd move to a smaller displacement class. Bikes like the Suzuki V-Strom 650, BMW F800GS, and Triumph 800 are all another 30-75 lbs lighter yet. Some might call it boring, but the 650 V-Strom is one of the most balanced packages out there and a great value.

I am very serious about wanting a lighter-weight bike and my next will might be the new Honda CRF1000L Africa Twin (which is rumored to be much lighter than other liter adv bikes. - we'll see what they actually come up with). If Honda drops the ball and we end up with yet another 500+ lb adv bike, I may just get a Honda CB500X which only makes 48-hp, but is a very well-rounded package that can do many many types of riding and only weighs 430-lbs wet. And it can be had with ABS for well under $7K.

I think self-canceling turn signals are a good safety feature and I don't know why Yamaha dropped it. One reason they may have is that some riders began to rely on it as their regular way of having the signals cancel and that is dangerous - the algorithm of speed/distance/time for canceling is just an approximation and works too unreliably to depend on it as one's everyday way of canceling. The mfgs intend that you manually cancel and use the self-canceling feature only as a safety net for when you forget to cancel manually. (The physics of how motorcycles turn - by leaning - makes it practically impossible to design a self-canceling turn signal that reliably senses when you've completed a turn.)

- Mark

 

[jcdas]

Again, thnks for the warm welcome and feedback.

The idea of a Maxiscooter is still a very distant idea. Maybe in 10 years.

I have a story to tell about a Burgman...

About 8 years ago, I went for a ride with a fellow I knew for many years out of Lakefield ON. Jake was about 65 at the time, and I was 10 years his junior. He was riding a Suzuki Savage cruiser. Not sure of the displacement (750CC?). Jake brought along another fellow, who was 80 or so, and he rode a 650 Suzuki Burgman. I figured it would be a slow, sedate ride, given their ages. Was I wrong They took off like a proverbial bat out of hell. I spent most of a day of hard riding around the Highlands http://www.ridethehighlands.ca/en/index of eastern Ontario on some of the twistiest roads going. I had to work my butt off and push my 1300CC Venture hard to keep up with them. Speed limits ? They are just 'guidelines'. Sparks flying everywhere from the Savage. And the Burgman kept up without any trouble. At the end of the day, I was pooped out manhandling my heavy bike.

So I know that the bike is only a part of what makes an exciting ride. Skill and guts are way underrated.

So know that I'm retired and 61 years young, and in reasonably good health, I'm still in the game for some excitement. In the meantime, I'll keep checking out my options, and keep riding my Venture for now.

 

[eemsreno]

jcdas

Welcome
We had a 1987 Venture when we got our Tenere, an 83 before that, Wife said we were keeping the Venture for touring.
We never rode it again after getting the Tenere, Sold.

The Tenere is so much more fun, ride is way superior over the Venture. Way better wind management, Wife even prefers it traveling.
We rode it to Alaska last year and had a blast!
http://www.yamahasupertenere.com/index.php?topic=12837.0

 

[2112]

::004:: from the UK ::008::

 

[markjenn]

I don't like self canceling turn signals unless they are steering based.

Don't think there has been any attempt to fit steering-based self-canceling signals on a motorcycle since a few Hondas in the 80's (which didn't work well at all). The way a single-track vehicle corners where the steering angle is reversed (at higher speeds), where steering angles are so small, and where you only use steering to initiate or complete turns and not during the turn, makes it almost impossible to engineer a system based on steering angles. Most of the self-canceling systems today cancel based on satisfying two criteria: that a certain distance is traveled AND a certain time has elapsed. You need both because time is required for high-speed lane-change situations and distance is required for sitting at a stop at intersections. Perhaps newer systems work on acceleration, but I doubt it as it wouldn't work well at steady-state speeds on the highway.

Some of the latest sportbikes have gyro-based lean angle sensors and you would think that perhaps you could do something with lean angle for self-canceling, but haven't heard of it being done yet.

In any event, if you consider self-canceling as a safety net when you forget to manually cancel, there is little downside other than occasionally having them self-cancel too early. (I seldom noticed the problem when I had the system but perhaps I don't signal as early as some do.) But the systems are terrible if you rely on them as your primary way of canceling as the signals stay on way WAY too long in most situations.

Given other "safety-oriented" things done lately by Yamaha (e.g., S10's lower-gear power reductions, FJ-09 110-mph speed governor), I'd bet Yamaha's risk-reduction lawyers are also involved in making sure no current Yamaha has self-canceling turn signals.... better to have no safety system than to have one which is widely misunderstood and misused.

- Mark

 

[Stridercal]

Some new Hondas use the ABS sensors to detect lean angle and give self-canceling functionality, but in real-world use, the effect is not very consistent.

At the end of the day, if you can't manage to use turn signals effectively without help, you should probably sell your motorcycle and get a car. Or a Harley, as it's practically the same thing...

 

[markjenn]

Some new Hondas use the ABS sensors to detect lean angle and give self-canceling functionality, but in real-world use, the effect is not very consistent.

I don't think the ABS sensors detect lean angle but a separate gyro-based lean angle sensor can provide input to the ABS system and refine its operation. Haven't heard Honda (or anyone) is using lean angle sensors for self-canceling turn signals, but it makes some sense.

- Mark

 

[twinrider]

I don't think the ABS sensors detect lean angle but a separate gyro-based lean angle sensor can provide input to the ABS system and refine its operation. Haven't heard Honda (or anyone) is using lean angle sensors for self-canceling turn signals, but it makes some sense.

- Mark

Harley-Davidson uses both distance and lean sensors for its self-canceling turn signals. I have them on my '09, they work great.

 

[AKC Tenere]

Harley-Davidson uses both distance and lean sensors for its self-canceling turn signals. I have them on my '09, they work great.

Harley Davidsons design team do come up with some very good ideas..........
They chrome all their parts........
It makes them easier to spot on the side of the road when they fall off.

 

[Checkswrecks]

I don't think the ABS sensors detect lean angle but a separate gyro-based lean angle sensor can provide input to the ABS system and refine its operation. Haven't heard Honda (or anyone) is using lean angle sensors for self-canceling turn signals, but it makes some sense.

- Mark

Mark -

You're betraying our ages in "gyro-based. . . sensor" as everything is fast going MEMS.


For those who don't know the acronym - http://www.fh-zwickau.de/fileadmin/ugroups/ftz/Konferenzen/Ducati_2012/10_Bosch_Moerbe.pdf

Variations have gotten so inexpensive and ubiquitous that they are in everything from cell phones to satellites. In motorcycles they have been used as the tilt kill switches for a while and it is now more than a potential input. Harley has been using theirs for the turn signals as noted. The new ABS systems are incorporating input from the MEMS package into the ABS and Bosch has been the leader recently. As you wrote, they are used to de-tune or fine tune the ABS control in a turn.