Klim/Gore-Tex - When is enough, enough?

[Dirt_Dad]

You might try talking to whoever you bought it from if your lucky they might be able to help you with a receipt.

After another fruitless search that was my next thought.

Fortunately, I bought the gear from Romney Cycles. I know the owner fairly well. If they have the recorded available I'm confident they'll be happy to assist.

Going through the receipts I do have was a walk down memory lane. My heated gear is approaching 20 years and still working great. Gotta love good gear.

 

[Dirt_Dad]

The owner of Romney came back with the one Romney Klim receipt I did have (Lattitude). Im hopeful they'll have the receipt I'll need.

 

[Wymbly1971]

Good luck with your Klim claim. I've heard their willingness to honour warranty can be quite good, even if you don't necessarily have the original bill of sale.

I also have a Badlands suit. For the price of it I will never hesitate to make a warranty claim if it ever gives me trouble...even if it's a gizillion years old. The way I look at it, I've paid at least 2x the value for the thing up front (compared to other suits) The price paid was with the expectation of it lasting my lifetime.

 

[Dirt_Dad]

Thanks, but it's definitely not a Klim claim. I believe their warranty was one year when I bought this gear nearly 10 years ago.

This will be a Gore-tex inquiry. My experience with them has been very positive. Those were all boot claims. We'll see what they say about gear this old. The only reason I'd be retiring the Badlands is due to leaking. Otherwise, still holding up amazingly well.

 

[Dirt_Dad]

Romney Cycles was great about getting me the receipt.

Freshly washed and generous DWR application. Dried as indicated to activate the DWR. Looked up the Gore site for the instructions and read the exclusions.


9.5 years of hard use and my gear qualifies under Gore's limit for the end of its useful life. The water beads for a few moments, but then soaks in.

I'm done.

DM always wanted me to keep it and not send it back. To her, if I continue to abuse it to death on days that hard rain is not expected, she thinks that preserves the new Badlands I'll get next. I see her point. She has she strong opinions on how I care for things vs how she does. Again, I see her point.

 

[Jlq1969]

Eight, maybe nine years ago, I bought my Klim Badlands. They have been through a lot and have been my trusty protection for 12,000 to 20,000 miles of riding each year. They have always been perfect at keeping me dry. Well, until last year when I thought to myself, 'If I didn't know better, I'd say I'm sitting is a puddle of water...but I can't be, I'm in my Badlands.' After getting home that day, I confirmed, I clearly was sitting in a puddle of water. The gear went straight for a washing, and hot dryer to reactivate the gore-tex. That seemed to work and my 1,000 mile rain ride in October was a non-event.

Until today...cold front moving through, sheets of rain falling with impressively gusty winds, car drivers looking through their wipers on double speed at the insane motorcyclist riding by. This time I'm thinking, yep, I'm getting wet. A DWR treatement is great for water repellancy, but this is beyond that.

I'm wearing my 3rd pair of Sidi Adventure boots because Gore-Tex has twice before replaced them when they started to leak after 3 or 4 years. Today it was obvious that both the jacket and pants had let water in where it would not have happened in the past.

So the question is, at what point do I not contact gore-tex and log a case that my heavily used gear is no longer as effective as it was back in 2017? The pants are still in good shape and the only problem with them is the leaking. But at some point, I feel like I'm going beyond reasonable expectations for product longevity. This gear has been everywhere from Alaksa to multiple BDR rides, 17 degrees F to 113 degrees F, it's worked hard for me. Even after looking at the price of a new set of Badlands, it seems like I should let gore off the hook and just give them praise, rather than a request.

I think I'm going to bite the bullet and not log a case.

2017

2023

Results of a bird strike

RIP Badlands.

The puddle of water you were sitting in, was it perspiration or rain?….Goretex is the padding that would ensure that your perspiration is evacuated…..but if the puddle was from outside water….in that case the outer cover of the jacket has a “water column index”….(I think it goes from 5000 to 20000 mm)….which tells you how much water it can withstand before infiltrating…and surely over time the outer material of the jacket will degrade and the infiltration index will decrease. (for example, an index of 20000 is a tube of about 3cm in diameter by about 20cm high), filled with water and pressed against the “outer” material of the jacket…..if the water does not pass through….the index is 20000

 

[Checkswrecks]

I found this, which is a bit of a contradiction.
Lifetime Warranty
Vs
Normal wear and tear.

“Yes, Klim Badlands jackets, along with all Klim products, come with a unique Klim Lifetime Warranty, though certain items like rips, tears, cuts, burns, abrasions, and normal wear and tear will void the warranty”

Last time I saw your jacket it was pretty faded. Personally, I’d just accept that things wear out and it’s time for something new. That’s what I did with my last Latitude jacket after a decade of commuting and riding.

 

[Jlq1969]

The Goretex membrane allows perspiration vapor to pass through… but on condition that there is no rainwater on it… the external water seals Goretex pores and when they are sealed, the membrane no longer fulfills its main function.

 

[Dirt_Dad]

Last time I saw your jacket it was pretty faded. Personally, I’d just accept that things wear out and it’s time for something new. That’s what I did with my last Latitude jacket after a decade of commuting and riding.

it's been that faded for many years. Hi viz does not hold up. It's the grime look that never fades no matter how much it gets washed. Pretty sure the next set will be all black.

I accept that 9+ years is enough to put this gear into semi retirement (kinda like a buddy of mine). JT is going to tell me when their 2025 inventory arrives.

 

[ZigZag]

This thread has been a great read. I'm impressed with the longevity you guys are getting from your Klim gear. Here in Australia a Klim Badlands jacket costs $2000. An A3 Pro version costs $2500. I've considered them but the sticker price always stops me. I don't do the kilometres some of you do either so I'm sticking with a less expensive brand next time I'm up for a winter jacket. Which will be soon. I did speak to a sales person in a bike shop last year. She said some brands sell a bike jacket and the water proof layer is a Goretex rain coat over the top. Alpinestars and BMW are two who do this.

 

[Jlq1969]

She said some brands sell a bike jacket and the water proof layer is a Goretex rain coat over the top. Alpinestars and BMW are two who do this.

I don't think the Goretex membrane is used on the outside of a motorcycle jacket. It is not abrasion resistant. The outer shell of a motorcycle jacket is usually made of “Kodra/Cordura”..which has drop abrasion resistances from 500 to 1000…The normal thing in motorcycle jackets is to find them made in 600 or 800….but by itself the fabric is not completely waterproof, it is treated to “increase” the waterproofness.

 

[Boris]

This thread has been a great read. I'm impressed with the longevity you guys are getting from your Klim gear. Here in Australia a Klim Badlands jacket costs $2000. An A3 Pro version costs $2500. I've considered them but the sticker price always stops me. I don't do the kilometres some of you do either so I'm sticking with a less expensive brand next time I'm up for a winter jacket. Which will be soon. I did speak to a sales person in a bike shop last year. She said some brands sell a bike jacket and the water proof layer is a Goretex rain coat over the top. Alpinestars and BMW are two who do this.

Oxford do some very reasonably priced textiles, that get very good reviews. One is the Mondial jacket, that is promoted as waterproof through a laminated outer layer. Is Oxford available in Australia?

 

[ZigZag]

Oxford do some very reasonably priced textiles, that get very good reviews. One is the Mondial jacket, that is promoted as waterproof through a laminated outer layer. Is Oxford available in Australia?

A lot of their accessories are but I’m not sure about their jackets.
We have an independent testing organisation that tests motorcycle gear and helmets for safety. Their results are available to the public on their website. Alpinestars Halo Drystar jackets test well for crash protection and water proofing. They are also ‘only’ $700 compared to the $2000 for Klim.
Klim doesn’t rate as well in crash protection but the same in waterproofing.

 

[ZigZag]

I don't think the Goretex membrane is used on the outside of a motorcycle jacket. It is not abrasion resistant. The outer shell of a motorcycle jacket is usually made of “Kodra/Cordura”..which has drop abrasion resistances from 500 to 1000…The normal thing in motorcycle jackets is to find them made in 600 or 800….but by itself the fabric is not completely waterproof, it is treated to “increase” the waterproofness.

On reflection I think it was just the BMW jacket that has the water proof layer as an outer layer. The idea was you could wear it as a smart jacket when you went for your schnitzengruben after your ride.

 

[Dirt_Dad]

New Badlands came home yesterday. Noticed a few changes between gen 1 and gen 4.

Jacket
-) Very pleased that annoying glove gaiter is gone. Hated those things for 9.5 years.
-) Vents are significantly different. Gone is the long zipper going across the arm pit. That was often challenging to reach and operate. Replaced with a higher up zipper on the back side of the bicep, which is easier to grab.
-) The sleeve/wrist vent is now a zipper that can be pulled up to greatly open the wrist, or pulled down to keep the writst closed and open just a vent. This is a great invention for putting on rain gloves and closing the glove inside the sleeve. My Carlsbad also has this feature and it's great.
-) The waterproof pouch in the breast pocket isn't there now, but the clip to which it was attached is still there. With no pouch I need to figure out if the pockets are now waterproof.
-) Size still seems about the same between generations.

Pants
-) They added several inches to the length of the 'Regular' pants. Almost made me want to get a "Short" version. At 6' tall, I've never felt getting a short size was necessary. After snapping to the 4th snap, the pants stay on the boot just fine, so I kept with Regular. No concerns about the pants riding up on the Klim GTX boot I use on the Gold Wing. That boot is about 1/2 the height of my Sidi Adventure boots used on the KTMs.
-) The big leg vent is more slashed across the top of the leg rather than the side as on gen 1.
-) There is now a below the knee vent.
-) The suspenders mounts are same in the front, but the rear has lost the nice wide mount of gen 1. Rear is now a thinner mount deeper in the pant. Same as my Carlsbad pant, so it seem intentional, but a odd choice. The new Klim suspenders have changed to a lower price point and gone from a ball catch to velcro.
-) Very disappointed they did away with the handy exterior loop just to the left of the zipper. Now I have to figure out where to hang the keys when leaving the bike for a break...a definite step backwards.

Overall, it's all very stiff and needs a good breaking-in, but it's good to be confident in my waterproofness again.

 

[flatgrind]

I’m a little late to this thread, but with all of the discussion about warranties, I thought it was interesting that you guys didn’t mention the KLIM gear protection guarantee (crash warranty):

“KLIM has your back. If you are involved in a motorcycle *accident within FIVE YEARS of purchasing **qualifying KLIM gear, we will replace the damaged gear FREE OF CHARGE.”

I can’t remember who it was, but there was a Super Tenere rider in Texas who laid his bike down a few years ago and got his Klim suit replaced free of charge.

I know that’s not the issue here, thank goodness, but it is worth noting and something to consider. I suppose if you are debating when to replace something and what to replace it with.

 

[Dirt_Dad]

That's a newer perk that didn't exist 9+ years ago. It's definitely a nice-to-have offer on the new gear.

It’s an offer I'm sure all of us hope we never need.

 

[bluebuick66]

Interesting video from Fort Nine....

 

[Dirt_Dad]

I thought about this video before buying another set of Badlands. Ultimately, 9 years of staying dry in some really crazy weather, and two sets of replaced, Sidi Gore-tex boots, convinced me to stay with what I know has always worked for me.

I'm not disputing Ryan's test results, but I'm also not willing to experiment on theories either.

 

[Skytower]

I have a Badlands Pro, since 2021. After a year, it sprung a leak in the left elbow. Now that the zipper pull on the ID pocket came off, and the main zipper won't stay up, I might send it back for repair/replacement.
The problem, as usual, is I still need to come up with a replacement while I'm waiting. That's what's been stopping me.

FYI: the Gore layer, if intact, does not require the DWR to be waterproof. The Gore layer needs the DWR layer to bead/shed to be breathable. Your Gore gear should operate the same as a PVC Raincoat when the outer layer is fully wetted.
So, I'd say that your Gore layer has sprung a leak.