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Is this political? I don’t know - POLL ADDED

Is it time to:

  • Leave this thread open as a place to vent?

    Votes: 18 40.0%

  • Close this thread and go back to no politics anywhere?

    Votes: 27 60.0%
  • Total voters
    45
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scott123007

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pooh and xtine said:
I am quite ambivalent about Trump and his politics or leadership, but he was the democratically elected president and should be respected accordingly. The problem with democracy in recent years is the desire to achieve consensus, which becomes impossible when society becomes polarised between groups with diametrically opposed views and beliefs. We saw this with Brexit where the 48% who voted to remain wanted their views to be respected (even though this was impossible); after all, they were an enormous pressure group. It seems to be the same with the Republicans, who lost by a similar margin. People are unhappy to accept that democratic elections are often a binary choice which result in a substantial proportion of the electorate being disappointed. If we want democracy to continue to work, the 48% have to accept that the views of the 52% must be allowed to prevail.

In much of Western Europe they have managed with consensus politics for years, but then there is little difference between the policies of different parties and the coalitions don’t make any real changes!
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As much as I agree with your statement, I think the "Not My President" fiasco 4 years ago that the media exploited into damn near hysteria around the nation, started this shitshow.
 
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Madhatter

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the Arnold is partially correct and showing his bias ,just another California liberal who has jumped on the bash the president train . no one from the beginning swore alligence to supporting the president like he just stated to Joe Biden (what a difference that might have made had he,Trump, been given the same support) ... so what will he say and do when they start after the constitution .... he had big words he has a forum of celebrity lets see in the next 100 days how this goes.... I'm thinking the Arnold will be eating his words .
his part about growing up where he did was quite moving and I believe him. and when they go after our constitution I hope he means what he said . I would like to believe in this. but im a bit of a doubter , I've seen that bunch in office before.
 
MattR

MattR

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Arnie is Republican isn’t he? So he is conservative rather than liberal? Or is it that he just isn’t right wing enough?


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Checkswrecks

Checkswrecks

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Madhatter said:
the Arnold is partially correct and showing his bias ,just another California liberal who has jumped on the bash the president train . no one from the beginning swore alligence to supporting the president like he just stated to Joe Biden (what a difference that might have made had he,Trump, been given the same support) ... so what will he say and do when they start after the constitution .... he had big words he has a forum of celebrity lets see in the next 100 days how this goes.... I'm thinking the Arnold will be eating his words .
his part about growing up where he did was quite moving and I believe him. and when they go after our constitution I hope he means what he said . I would like to believe in this. but im a bit of a doubter , I've seen that bunch in office before.
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Are you sure you mean the Constitution and really the Bill of Rights? The reason I ask is because frequently when I hear this it's more about people concerned with keeping their way of life and fearing intrusion from others wanting to exercise the same Constitutional freedoms. It was well captured by Clint Eastwood at the beginning of the movie Gran Torino, with him being against the Vietnamese families moving in, not speaking English, taking American jobs, not being good Christians like his late wife, etc.

My guess is this is really about taxes or welfare like Eastwood also complained about. I'm personally a fiscal conservative and market trader who is concerned about how much more I'm going to have to pay, so make no mistake in that I feel with you if this is what you mean. However, "how much" tax as a subject is really outside the Constitution unless hard pressing definitions in the Bill of Rights while ignoring Amendment XVI (income tax) at the same time. Birth, death, and taxes have always been part of life ("Give unto Caesar that which is Caesar's" . . .) and there are whole web-sites dedicated to whether the Republicans or Democrats have been better for the economy. That needs to be a different subject for another day, but the bottom line is taxation is about "how much" and not about Constitutional rights.

The other reason I ask is which freedoms you mean? Yes, the Dems want to increase existing gun control and there's no point in endlessly arguing 2nd Amendment right versus wrong here. I'm well armed but would need a permit for silencers or full auto and can't [facetiously] build an atom bomb. Obama and a much more Democratic Congress tried hard to limit guns and failed, and that was BEFORE the current hard-right Court. I can't see the current extremists on the left go beyond that because even the more moderate Supreme Court found ownership to be Constitutional but ALSO allowed gun control making the argument really just how we keep redefining the gray area. fwiw - Harris is like Obama and while Biden doesn't hunt any more he used to and I believe still shoots skeet not too far from where we go to the beach.

I hear people bitch both sides of health care but the Constitution and Bill of Rights don't have anything about that one way or the other. Plus, most people already are on socialized medicine even though we don't want to admit, and none of us want to give up our Govt req'd employer plans, Medicare, Medicaid, VA, etc. To me, that argument is really another about taxation, who pays for what, liability costs and limits, and how bad we've totally botched where in the gray area the implementation should be. The Supreme Court seems to agree since the Republicans have done everything possible to repeal ACA/ObamaCare but the basic structure was found Constitutional. Same with welfare programs. The Constitution says nothing, it's just about who pays how much and who is eligible for what.

To me and no matter how much Trump tried to control the press and merge church/State, the biggest infringements on our rights was how the Homeland Security Act cut into Amendments IV, V, VII, and maybe VIII under Bush/Cheney. Pull up a copy of the Bill of Rights and you might see what I mean.

This got longer than intended and hope you see that I'm not arguing against you, just trying to both see if I'm missing something and maybe help focus arguments that bring up the Constitution because misconstruing it just bugs me.
 
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Checkswrecks

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MattR said:
Arnie is Republican isn’t he? So he is conservative rather than liberal? Or is it that he just isn’t right wing enough?


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Moderate Republican, like Hogan in my State of Maryland. Both are to the right of center enough that the Democrat legislatures hate not having a rubber stamp Governor, but not far enough for the people further to the right. Neither is a Trump supporter.
 
MattR

MattR

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I have no idea what taxes are paid in the US but I do know a few years ago in my area we had two police officers on duty at night covering an area of around 450 Sq Miles (it’s not much different now) These officers are not armed but an armed response vehicle can be called from out of area if need be. I later visited a police station in Florida that covered roughly the same area and population and was amazed to find they had 38 officers on duty at any one time!! That has to cost a bomb!! How is it justified?


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PhilPhilippines

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MattR said:
I have no idea what taxes are paid in the US but I do know a few years ago in my area we had two police officers on duty at night covering an area of around 450 Sq Miles (it’s not much different now) These officers are not armed but an armed response vehicle can be called from out of area if need be. I later visited a police station in Florida that covered roughly the same area and population and was amazed to find they had 38 officers on duty at any one time!! That has to cost a bomb!! How is it justified?


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Only trained firearms officers can carry firearms. Same as only Class 1 trained drivers can engage in pursuit. In both specialties the candidates have a character assessment and 100s of hours of training. I know nothing about firearms but I often cringe when watching pursuits in the US, where "noble cause", "red mist" and dangerous manoeuvres are more common than they should be.

The UK cutbacks are...well, criminal. And asking the general public to do their job absurd.
 
MattR

MattR

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Jeez! Trump must be very proud to have finished his term by executing the first woman for 70 years. Maybe the icing on the cake would be to execute a child? Or maybe a pregnant woman?


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