Drif10
Well-Known Member
I suck as a photog, here is a shot that shows that edge I was talking about. It shows up here as that shiny ridge on the end, I guess I didn't remove enough on these 2 teeth.
Impressions of going from a 14ES to an 18ES
- Thread starter Drif10
- Start date
Tenforeplay
Well-Known Member
I see where a bevel would be very beneficial. I am coming up on a tire change, have to give that a look.
sky4
Active Member
not too bad! my '12 is at 115k miles (185k km) and running like a champ. it does have the 14+ clutch basket and cam chain tensioner. uses a quart of oil every 4k or so.
Cycledude
Well-Known Member
I bought one from Harbor Freight a few years ago, cheap and works great.
I also had a DCT AT, mine was a 2016. Agree on the crappy build quality, in the 2 years I owned it the DCT broke down mid-commute, stranding me, and the fuel pump, idle control valve and headlight switch gear broke as well. What led me to sell it back to the dealer though, was the intermittent stalling pulling away from stops, which the dealer couldn't fix and which Honda told me was a "big twin characteristic."
I didn't care for the DCT tranny either and would never buy another bike without a clutch lever. While the DCT was fine for simple droning alone, for spirited or off-pavement riding it rarely shifted when I would have, and often did it when I didn't want it to, for example mid-corner.
The lack of a clutch lever also made it impossible to finely modulate the power for maneuvers like u-turns or other times when you want total control of the drive to the rear wheel, and the brakes are a poor substitute for that. Also, good luck stopping the bike from sliding down you get stuck on a hill climb. No way to put it in gear and lock the back wheel and the brakes may not hold it. As I learned the hard way.
My MT-09 has a very light clutch pull and an excellent up/down quick shifter. That's the way to go imo.
So, over the years, I've joked about having the only perfect Super Tenere made. But what you're describing is what I've been experiencing; the near perfect ride. There's been some conjecture that the fueling was improved/altered in '17.
Yeah, when I got the DCT I only thought about how easy my 40 mile commute through city traffic would be. Live and learn. It seems the Honda E-Clutch retains the clutch lever, so perhaps the best of both worlds?
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I wish Yamaha had evolved the S10 and given it an up/down quickshifter. Love the one on my MT-09, a real labor saver in heavy traffic. Its clutch is also much lighter, which is nice when you're constantly using it.I'll just stick with my old fashioned clutch WITH a lever.
The DCT and the Africa Twin have both been quite improved since 2016.I also had a DCT AT, mine was a 2016. Agree on the crappy build quality, in the 2 years I owned it the DCT broke down mid-commute, stranding me, and the fuel pump, idle control valve and headlight switch gear broke as well. What led me to sell it back to the dealer though, was the intermittent stalling pulling away from stops, which the dealer couldn't fix and which Honda told me was a "big twin characteristic."
I didn't care for the DCT tranny either and would never buy another bike without a clutch lever. While the DCT was fine for simple droning alone, for spirited or off-pavement riding it rarely shifted when I would have, and often did it when I didn't want it to, for example mid-corner.
The lack of a clutch lever also made it impossible to finely modulate the power for maneuvers like u-turns or other times when you want total control of the drive to the rear wheel, and the brakes are a poor substitute for that. Also, good luck stopping the bike from sliding down you get stuck on a hill climb. No way to put it in gear and lock the back wheel and the brakes may not hold it. As I learned the hard way.
My MT-09 has a very light clutch pull and an excellent up/down quick shifter. That's the way to go imo.
YMMV...
Drif10
Well-Known Member
I liked the dct, once I reprogrammed my habits to using it.
The only issue with it was a 'me' thing: my other bike has an 07 RT, so the left turn signal on it was a down shift on the AT. Got that backwards a few times.
The only issue with it was a 'me' thing: my other bike has an 07 RT, so the left turn signal on it was a down shift on the AT. Got that backwards a few times.
RonTV
New Member
DCT, as good as it may or may not be, I see no logical need to want one as there is no scenario where any automatic transmission works better than manually shifting. Add the complexity and probable incompetent service if problems do arise, the whole system seems to be a very bad choice in the long run to me. Just my opinion.
cyclemike4
Well-Known Member
I have read about a lot of Africa Twins doing this but on the same token I have read about several brands of bikes doing this. My Super T was one of them. Funny thing is when I do demo rides all the bikes run perfectly. I have a sneaky feeling the demo bikes are all manipulated in some form that you would not get buying new. Of course I have rode a Suzuki Vstrom and a couple BMWs and a couple Harleys that stumbled and surged and basically ran like crap at low rpm and light throttle settings. I am sure they were what you would get if you bought one. I don't think they were doctored up before being put into the demo fleet. I did demo a DCT and it was actually pretty good in town and just fooling around. I didn't like it and would not buy one. Maybe if i was buying a Gold Wing but not even sure on that. I definitely would not buy one on Africa Twin. Having DCT on that bike really doesn't make any sense to me.
Cycledude
Well-Known Member
I have absolutely no problem with manual shifting but have taken a few test rides on Goldwings with DCT and that’s definitely what my preference would be if buying a new Goldwing.
Drif10
Well-Known Member
I found a couple of situations that had me really appreciate the dct time and again.
You brake for a corner, trail brake to keep the front loaded as you transition from braking load to cornering load. Everything is torqued in to position. Not a time to be changing gears cause you picked wrong. With the dct, you can. It will not unload the chassis, it just shifts. Tire contact patch stays the same. I've got 40 years on a bike, and am considered smooth on a bike, but I can't do that shift without some load shift. I've done this in the rain, in the snow, and the bike just stays planted.
The mechanics of how the Honda dct works are simple, and kinda old school. Still the same sequential gearbox, still a wet multi plate clutch. There's two changes, first being that a servo moves the shift forks instead of your foot. Second is the clutch layout: your normal wet clutch is 8 fiber plates, 9 steel, compressed by springs, with the clutch lever unloading that spring pressure so they'll slip between themselves. The steel plates are splined to the transmission input shaft, the fiber mated to the crankshaft. Think of the dct as those plate combos halved, their pressure controlled by oil pressure through a valve, one half feeding the 1-3-5 gears on the trans input shaft, and the other half feeding the 2-4-6 on the trans output shaft. Those valves are the same tech as from your grandpa's old 9N tractor. It's just the ecu controlling their operation. Overall it's simple technology, just manipulated in a different way.
That design provides a really useful effect, because the ecu controls clutch pressure, when the rear wheel starts to spin up, it gets involved. Standard traction control cuts ignition spark, cuts fuel to the injectors. The dct uses that, PLUS it softens the clutch a bit so that the power pulse doesn't hit the tire as sharply, helping to maintain drive. Unless you're a practicing racer, you're not gonna be able to beat that setup. It is wickedly smooth, just drives forward.
I hated that bike for a lot of other reasons, but I gotta give props to a good working operation like that.