Impressions of going from a 14ES to an 18ES

[Drif10]

So, 4.5 years ago I bought a 14 with 35k kms on it, bone stock. Slowly modded it over the years so it would work with my old (and bent) body parts. Recently, internal motor coolant leak plus blowby and damp valve stems meant either a rebuild, a motor swap, or a bike swap.

Lots of back gravel road miles on the whole bike made me leery of a top end rebuild only, lots of flex in every component over the years made it still a well used machine. Found an 18ES with 34k kms on it, got that.

I knew from my past fleet management work that even when we'd get 16 new f350's, none of them would sound or drive the same after a year's use.

That was the case with these 2 bikes.

I never thought the 14 shifted like I was used to Yamahas shifting. It was always a bit sticky, really sticky at the 7500km point on an oil change. Starting off from a stop, it was always hard to be smooth with the launch, kinda grabby and the throttle had a bit of a lag in it below 2k rpm.

Not so with the 18. Holy crap what a huge difference. Even in the -5c temps I've been riding in this week, the shifting is like buttah. It'll creep off a stop if I want it to, no lag, and you can feather the clutch easily. I've got a lot of muscle memory to reprogram now, in a really good way.

In trying to improve these issues, I'd done a coil spring conversion to the clutch, Barnett plates fiber and steel, braided steel lines, and the clutch slave cylinder from Off-The-Road in Germany. Things were better, but not great.

Lived with it.

A good flash of the ecu improved the overall rideability like it does on these, but that low rpm lag and sticky clutch/ transmission things persisted. The 18 has none of these quirks.

As I slowly migrate over the goodies from the old bike to the new, it's been a good chance to give it some tlc, clean and lube stuff, find and fix the little issues you always find on a used bike. I'm taking care to only do a couple of things, then go for a ride, constantly troubleshooting. Nothing has cropped up, I'm cautious about importing an old problem. I ride solo in a lot of places without cell service, and walking sucks.

It's also been a chance for a do over. There's installs I wished I'd done a better job with (mostly electrical), so I'm gonna do those right. Shoulda used an Eastern Beaver fuse panel, like I had on previous bikes, but I didn't. One is on order now, no fucking around this time.

It sucks that I had the motor issues, and having to spend the money to sort this out, I'm happy that this bike rides a lot more like I thought a sooperten should.

 

[Qship]

How many kms on the '14 that made you decide to update to the '18?

 

[Mad_Matt]

Down the road I will likely do something similar and buy the newest/cleanest used Super Tenere I can find, then transfer over all of the farkles from my 2014. I’m sure we will be able to find 2020 or newer Super Tenere’s for under $10k soon, but that will also mean I will likely sell my defarkled 2014 for $2-3k.

 

[siroco]

It surprises me that a more modern version, with more environmental restrictions, works better than a ten-year-old model. At least in Europe the 2018s have a huge catalytic converter and a ridiculously lean AFR. For me 2014-2016 the best version.

 

[Drif10]

How many kms on the '14 that made you decide to update to the '18?

213k kms. Most of that was 2 lane roads, lots of gravel and old chip seal roads. From my research, the engine problems were very rare.

 

[Fennellg]

Well Drif10 if I have googled right that’s about 130,000 miles. Pretty good, impressive actually. My 2015 has 42,000 miles. But I have been looking. There are 3 contenders. Africa Twin, GS, and Gold Wing. All DCT. The BMW uses a simpler computer controlled single clutch I think. (Never known the Germans to go simple, when they could make it complicated.) Just changing a lightbulb in an RT was an ordeal in the field.

Just saw a video of an Indian bagger getting after it on the dragon. Made me long for a big American VTwin again. Truth be told, I have my bike in the sweet spot. Everything figured out and running great. Think I will run it a bit longer could even see me to the end. I did go two Harley Baggers in a row. But truth be told like the versatility of an adventure bike. Mine caught so many complements our new bmw owner was jealous.

The DCT seems less important my last group has disbanded. They aged out. As they say if you got your health you got everything. Those guys did not like to pass or lane split. I drew the line out west where it was legal. Cooking in 110 heat for no good reason is insanity to me.

 

[Drif10]

I loved the DCT on my Africa Twin. Once you adjust to it, it's fucking brilliant. I'd have it on any bike.

The rest of the bike is built in North Korea out of chinesium. The most un-Honda Honda I've ever owned.

I cannot talk enough shit about that thing. 5 sets of fork seals, corroded spokes after 2 weeks out of the crate, rust at the frame welds after 5 months. The list goes on and on. It was a 16 model.

 

[gunnar#1]

Down the road I will likely do something similar and buy the newest/cleanest used Super Tenere I can find, then transfer over all of the farkles from my 2014. I’m sure we will be able to find 2020 or newer Super Tenere’s for under $10k soon, but that will also mean I will likely sell my defarkled 2014 for $2-3k.

I knew a couple of Kawasaki Concours guys that did the same thing.

 

[Drif10]

Found a plug in the rear tire, reached out to the shop that sold the bike, they're gonna replace the tire, it should have been found when they safetied it. They were very reasonable about it.

So, that meant pulling the wheel (shop is over 2 hours away, and it's winter up here). I was swapping over the old wheels anyways, they have a fresh set of Motoz GPS on them. Doing the front wheel, and the previous owner's mechanic used ALL the torques on the bolts. Fook mi, that dick was the ugga-dugga king. Around 100 ft/lbs on the caliper bolts. Take my time, get it all done up right.

The cush drive was stuck in the final drive, had to use a flat blade to separate them.

Someone had used some kind of grease that had dried and gummed things up. Cleaned it all out, break out the moly 60 to coat the splines.

Go to reinstall the wheel, and the splines just won't mesh. It's a real bear just to do it without the rest of the wheel. After a really long time of trying and trying, I remembered that my old bike had been a real bear at first, after the second time of beating my head against the wall with it, I had pulled the final drive, put it on the bench, then chamfered all the splines at the initial contact point. No more problem.

I was out of energy by this point, pulled out the 14mm, and just took the old drive off and put it on the new bike. Hub slides right in. All that took 10 minutes, max. Really really wish I'd figured that out 3 hours earlier.

I'll chamfer the new one next week and throw it back on.

 

[Fennellg]

See if they will give you the old tire. You could patch it proper from the inside. Plugs don’t bug me, but they are not for everyone. An inside patch is the gold standard.

 

[Cycledude]

Found a plug in the rear tire, reached out to the shop that sold the bike, they're gonna replace the tire, it should have been found when they safetied it. They were very reasonable about it.

So, that meant pulling the wheel (shop is over 2 hours away, and it's winter up here). I was swapping over the old wheels anyways, they have a fresh set of Motoz GPS on them. Doing the front wheel, and the previous owner's mechanic used ALL the torques on the bolts. Fook mi, that dick was the ugga-dugga king. Around 100 ft/lbs on the caliper bolts. Take my time, get it all done up right.

The cush drive was stuck in the final drive, had to use a flat blade to separate them.

Someone had used some kind of grease that had dried and gummed things up. Cleaned it all out, break out the moly 60 to coat the splines.

Go to reinstall the wheel, and the splines just won't mesh. It's a real bear just to do it without the rest of the wheel. After a really long time of trying and trying, I remembered that my old bike had been a real bear at first, after the second time of beating my head against the wall with it, I had pulled the final drive, put it on the bench, then chamfered all the splines at the initial contact point. No more problem.

I was out of energy by this point, pulled out the 14mm, and just took the old drive off and put it on the new bike. Hub slides right in. All that took 10 minutes, max. Really really wish I'd figured that out 3 hours earlier.

I'll chamfer the new one next week and throw it back on.

Did you have the transmission in gear when attempting to get the splines lined up ?

 

[Drif10]

Did you have the transmission in gear when attempting to get the splines lined up ?

In gear, out of gear. I added 180k kms to the old bike, and I did all the tires on it. I use a short board with a wedge to roll the wheel up to height, makes it easy to line up the axle.

All the tricks, and it just wouldn't engage. Swap the drive, slides right in. I really tried to clean out the old grease, got it shiny and right. Light film of moly, just hand fitting the hub was really finicky, let alone with the whole wheel. That final drive has a date with a file.

 

[gv550]

I've never chamfered the spline teeth, but that does sound like it would make engagement easier.
I install the wheel and axle bolt without the brake caliper mount, which better aligns the splines without having to carry the weight of the wheel, then just slide the wheel along the axle while rotating it and engage the spline. (transmission in gear as Cycledude mentioned)

 

[Drif10]

I've never chamfered the spline teeth, but that does sound like it would make engagement easier.
I install the wheel and axle bolt without the brake caliper mount, which better aligns the splines without having to carry the weight of the wheel, then just slide the wheel along the axle while rotating it and engage the spline. (transmission in gear as Cycledude mentioned)

That's my usual method. Then pull the axle, fit the brake and the washer as you reinsert the axle.

 

[Drif10]

Gave the final drive gear a taste of the dremel and the file today. Mostly it's just deburring the edges faces. Slides right on, now.

In other news, my old as dirt tube of Honda moly 60 is still going strong. Cleaned and lubed the shaft splines too.

 

[whisperquiet]

I use an air wedge to easily deal with the rear wheel removal/install. Pump up the air bag to hold the tire/wheel in place.
Put the bike in gear, remove the axle, washer, caliper, the ABS wire, the hub covering the ABS ring, then reinstall the axle and slide the wheel to the right off the splines……no fuss, no muss and the rubber dampers stay intact with the cush hub. Pull the axle and remove the wheel.

Reinstall the wheel by pumping up the air wedge under the tire in line with the final drive, slide the axle through the wheel and final drive. Slide the wheel to the left and engage the splines with the bike in gear. Remove the axle, leave the wheel in place supported by the air wedge and reinstall the brake side components…….tighten/torque everything and you are done.

Air wedges can be found on EBay or Amazon…….

 

[scott123007]

By any chance are you going to swap your flashed ECU?

 

[twinrider]

Well Drif10 if I have googled right that’s about 130,000 miles. Pretty good, impressive actually. My 2015 has 42,000 miles. But I have been looking. There are 3 contenders. Africa Twin, GS, and Gold Wing. All DCT. The BMW uses a simpler computer controlled single clutch I think. (Never known the Germans to go simple, when they could make it complicated.) Just changing a lightbulb in an RT was an ordeal in the field.

Just saw a video of an Indian bagger getting after it on the dragon. Made me long for a big American VTwin again. Truth be told, I have my bike in the sweet spot. Everything figured out and running great. Think I will run it a bit longer could even see me to the end. I did go two Harley Baggers in a row. But truth be told like the versatility of an adventure bike. Mine caught so many complements our new bmw owner was jealous.

The DCT seems less important my last group has disbanded. They aged out. As they say if you got your health you got everything. Those guys did not like to pass or lane split. I drew the line out west where it was legal. Cooking in 110 heat for no good reason is insanity to me.

I had a DCT Africa Twin. I really missed having a clutch to instandly modulate the power while doing u-turns and in a number of other situations, A good quick shifter takes away most of the busy work, but still gives the control only a clutch can provide.

 

[PachmanP]

Gave the final drive gear a taste of the dremel and the file today. Mostly it's just deburring the edges faces. Slides right on, now.

In other news, my old as dirt tube of Honda moly 60 is still going strong. Cleaned and lubed the shaft splines too.

Any chance you have a visual of the chamfered drive?

 

[Drif10]

Any chance you have a visual of the chamfered drive?

I should have taken a pic, just realized I didn't when I saw your question. D'oh.

Essentially, I deburred the initial edge, where the two pieces first touch on install of the hub into the drive.

My theory on why there's this issue is based on having seen how a press will shear metal, and that's there's commonly a little lip as that last bit of metal is stretched a bit as it's cut. I'm sure there's a proper name for this, but damned if I know what it is, hopefully someone knowledgeable will post the answer. That edge is what I've addressed.

If you clean off that splined collar, then run your finger along it, it feels like you can cut your skin on it. That's the guilty bastard, in my experience. Being very careful, rounding that edge makes life so much easier.

I've got the old one out, I'll see if I can get a good pic of that edge.