Fork Seal Failure Report: Anyone Else?

Squibb

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Nick Sanders always uses shock sox or similar for all his S10 Expeditions, to avoid the Canada/Alaska concrete dirt road problem described here. He has done 50k miles N to S America & back on a Super10, with minimalistic servicing - IIRC the only real problem was getting a loose strap caught up in the rear drive, which damaged the oil seal & the odd tyre/spoke.
 

Dave Lunden

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The fork tube guards on the dirt bikes are a definite seal saver!
I also wonder if the high quantity of bugs and the resulting dried bug residue on the fork legs contribute to seal failure.
 

Ron Earp

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Checkswrecks said:
Upside down forks like ours are stiffer at the top, due to the thicker tube, and lighter at the bottom, making the suspension work better.


The issue you describe is totally normal for upside down forks, because anything which gets into the fork falls into the seal. Again, totally normal. If you found a fastener starting to loosen, would you just let it keep going until something broke or fell off?


Throw a piece of camera film or a SealMate into your tool kit and you would have been good as new at the first sign of leakage, without the angst and drama.





Shock covers used by Eric and others can help a lot and are a good preventive, as well.

Sealmate, it has saved me and others a few times. Everyone should have it or something similar in their tool kit.
 

RCinNC

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You're talking about a "serious fork seal analysis", and then proposing that the way to form an accurate opinion about a theoretical fork seal design problem is to poll members on an online forum? How many seal failures have you counted on this forum? If you find fifty guys who say their fork seals leak, what conclusion are you going to draw, without knowing the number of Super Teneres are on the road that have never experienced a fork seal leak? If you believe it's a design flaw in the fork seal, then those numbers become really important. You had a seal failure; if I tell you I've ridden for 43,000 miles on my original seals, does that sway your opinion that there isn't a design flaw and you're just unlucky, or do you discount my experiences (and those of a lot of other riders on here) because confirmation bias is causing you to give the fork seal failures more weight in forming your opinion? Certainly, based on your post, you've already decided that there is a problem, and you're looking for confirmation of your conclusion.

I use seal savers because they seem like a decent solution to keeping grit and crap off the part of the tube that's the most vulnerable, and I used them on my V-Strom, but I never used them on any other bike I've owned, and I've never had a fork seal leak on any of them. The only conclusion I could draw from that info is that, yeah, maybe the seal savers help, and maybe they don't. And if fifty guys say their forks leaked, and there are 8000 Super Teneres out there that you have no idea if they've had a failure or not, about the only conclusion you can draw from that is "inconclusive". Fork seals are a wear item, after all; that's why they're made to be replaced if necessary. And it may just be the luck of the draw that some guys get that piece of grit or foreign matter on their fork tube at the right place and right time to cause a leak; that doesn't mean that the design is flawed.
 

EricV

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Kinzua - How may KTMs have you taken to Alaska?

Riiiight. Now be a good fellow and go buy some Shock Sox and just let it go already. When people tell you what works, don't argue that Yamaha has a problem, just do what works. It's a whole lot more effective. ::)
 

jmz

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Shock Sox are a good idea . I think silver bullet had quite a few miles before his seals started leaking and a lot of dirt roads. I believe dried bugs are a contributing factor.

P. S. Doesn't the high fender look good. LOL


Signatures ??? we don't need no stinking signatures !!!
 

EricV

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Got to love those new forks on that old bike. ::008::
 

jmz

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I do and I would like stiffer springs but I don't want to pull them apart for it because of the low miles on them.

Signatures ??? we don't need no stinking signatures !!!
 

EricV

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jmz said:
I do and I would like stiffer springs but I don't want to pull them apart for it because of the low miles on them.
Just do it. Springs are cheap and like me, you're a bigger guy. All low miles means is you won't need to do any other work when you swap the springs. Too soon to need bushings or seals.
 

jmz

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Yes , I am a BIGGER guy ::021:: ::025:: I was thinking I would have to swap seals and wipers if I took them apart ????
 

dave6253

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I had a fork seal start leaking pretty early - Like around 3,000 miles, if I recall right. It was repaired under warranty and within a couple thousand more miles started leaking again. Only maybe 40 miles of gravel roads so far. It was repaired again under warranty. The service manager said something about the bushing not being properly coated with Teflon, causing the problem. They replaced the bushing as well and it hasn't leaked yet.
 

EricV

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jmz said:
Yes , I am a BIGGER guy ::021:: ::025:: I was thinking I would have to swap seals and wipers if I took them apart ????
Not usually on low mile forks. Only if there is damage. Typically, riders do changes with the forks are getting tired/needing service, so you do read about doing seals/wipers/bushings at the same time. On a low mile set of forks, there is really no reason you would need anything besides what you are replacing, springs and maybe oil, depending on how the shop does the work.
 

scramjet

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After reading this and other posts about leaking seals I checked my '15 ES owners manual and found nothing regarding seal maintenance. Only to check for leaks every 4K miles.

Obviously it's important that the cavity between dust and oil seals be clean (or there wouldn't be a dust seal). Seal Savers or equiv are an attempt to provide redundant protection for the oil seal. On my dirt bikes (ES is 1st pure street bike in 35 years) my practice is to apply grease in the cavity to attract and catch any grit that gets past the dust seal before getting to the oil seal. The maint table in YZ manuals called for cleaning and greasing the cavity after very race (overkill). My KTM manual only says to periodically clean the cavity and spray the oil seal with an aerosol oil.

I dropped the dust seals on my ES and they were dry. I applied some Maxima waterproof grease on the interface of oil seal to tube, wiped the excess and closed the dust seal. Took 10 minutes and can't hurt. Any lithium based grease would be fine.

I don't have a ST service manual but would be curious in what it says about fork assembly and applying grease between dust and oil seals, either in the verbiage or the exploded diagram where they also show where to apply thread locker, grease, etc.
 

BWC

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Just noticed it looks like there has been a slight change in design of the newer fork seals. These were purchased about a month ago and it looks like the outer lip of the new seal has a slightly different profile, and now has a spring. The new one has the same spring on the bottom inside as does the old one.

Top, new style on the left.



Side



Bottom

 

SparrowHawkxx

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Not a fork seal failure but I had a bushing failure at the bottom of the outer tube on my 2013.
Last May at almost 49,000 miles I took off for an 18 day trip to the west coast. The morning of the 4th day I noticed a small wet spot under my right side fork and my fork was oily. I got my Seal Doctor out (that I had just ordered 3 weeks before the trip) and cleaned it out, but only got a few very small specs of black particles out. I did not think they were large enough to cause a leak. I estimated I probably only lost about an ounce of oil. The end of that day the fork was only slightly oily so I cleaned it with the Seal Doctor again and wiped it down. It never leaked any more after that. I had read about some having the Teflon coating breaking down on the bushings so that's what I thought it was. When I got home I ordered all the seals and bushings and tools to do the job to replace them but I had never worked on forks before. So I kept putting it off but finally did them about 3 weeks ago.

I had right at 50,000 miles when I had the leak and was at 64,148 miles when I did the job. They never leaked a drop after the last time I cleaned that oil seal out so I would say my seals were still good.
When I got the seals and bushings out they all looked ok except the bushing at the bottom of the outer tube on the right side. The Teflon coating on the inside of the bushing had a wavy surface and looked like some of it had crumbled off on about a 90 degree section, the rest of the way around looked ok. So I think that is what caused my leak last summer.
I drained all the oil I could on each leg and carefully measured it so I could compare the two sides and get an idea how much oil I lost. It was about 35 ml (1.2 oz) that I had lost.

I missed out on the new style seals that BWC mentioned.
The Seal Doctor worked great, I like it.
 

bob dirt

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BWC said:
Just noticed it looks like there has been a slight change in design of the newer fork seals. These were purchased about a month ago and it looks like the outer lip of the new seal has a slightly different profile, and now has a spring. The new one has the same spring on the bottom inside as does the old one.
They may look different, but the outer part isn't what leaks. Dirt particles get stuck to the inner edge. Best defense is Shock Sox or similar.
 

JackBurns40

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I had a full-on fork seal failure brought about apparently by a big scratch on the fork tube. It was in the middle of a long trip and I had more than 25K miles on the bike. Shop got my in quickly, fixed it completely, loaned me a bike for the day, and charged, what seemed to me, a pretty high price for it.

I can't really complain because they fixed a serious problem and kept me riding that day rather than sitting in the shop.

I've been mostly riding my new-to-me DR650 lately, but I do have a set of Shock Sox to install.

And I'm likely going to get the springs front and back replaced by late spring.
 

PaydayGabe

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Today I brought home the "Blue Mule" from dealer(warranty)service. Yup,
Fork seals. Right side started seeping around 45/ 4800mi. No issue with the left. I know its dry in the desert sw, , but this seems a little premature. :-\
 

Ramseybella

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71000 miles after Yamaha tech rode it and installed new wiring harness.
Took it home and both forks bleeding profusely..
Had them rebuilt and wrapped them with another pair of ShocSox.
Should have replaced the fork covers when they fell apart long ago.
So my guess some of this New Mexico Silica dust accumulated and the Tech rode the piss out of it to make it stall and idle dance.
I have used shock covers on other bikes and had good results, just need to take them off and clean things from time to time or replace when they start drying out and falling apart.
I bought a good heavy duty sewing machine and am planning on making my own covers.
Never the less 71000 miles the fork oil most likely resembled a rancid Mocha Shake mix.
 

OldRider

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bob dirt said:
They may look different, but the outer part isn't what leaks. Dirt particles get stuck to the inner edge. Best defense is Shock Sox or similar.
I may be wrong, but by "outer" I think he was talking about top vs bottom. Outer meaning the part you can see when you pull the dust seal out.
 
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