Engine knock on cold start / rough idling after Valve Adjustment and Spark Plug replacement

Jsbedard1977

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Hi guys, I attached a video of my Super Tenere 2013, on cold starts.

You can hear RPM variation and engine knocks a few times. This started to happen since I did the "Valve Adjustment Service" + Spark Plugs replacement at the local dealership.

Motorcycle never did that before.

I am wondering what could be the origin of this knocking sound / misfire(?).

Could it be ?
  1. One of the new spark plug faulty or just badly installed?
  2. Damaged spark plug cable?
  3. Air intake badly reinstalled or hose that is pinched/blocked somewhere under gas tank after reinstall?
Once motorcycle is warmed up, knocking sound seems to go away and it runs more normally, at least I cannot feel or hear the knock anymore...
Is this risky (to break something in the engine) if I use the bike?

Thanks

 
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Jsbedard1977

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Thanks Jeff. Timing would affect the engine to "knock" only at warming up phase or always even when running? If timing is problematic, i should not get any kind of light on the dashboard?
 
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magic

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What does your dealer's mechanic have to say? The erratic idle is one of the symptoms covered under a recall, but because your problem started after the service, I would suspect that something was put together wrong. It could be the timing chain, the cam chain tensioner, a vacuum line or any of the things you mentioned. I wouldn't ride it like that. Good luck
 

Jsbedard1977

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I took another appointment (august 9th, a bit far...from now :() to check it hopefully they will resolve it.
 

WJBertrand

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Thanks Jeff. Timing would affect the engine to "knock" only at warming up phase or always even when running? If timing is problematic, i should not get any kind of light on the dashboard?
A timing error I would think would effect engine running in spite of temperature. As far as I know a tooth or so off on the cam timing would not trigger an error light. The Super Tenere does not seem to have any kind of cam position sensor. My previous bike (Honda ST1300) did have a cam position sensor on one of the banks.
 

Squibb

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Back to the dealer, as soon as possible.

Should be something simple, if that's all they touched - Sounds like she is spitting back into the intake/airbox. Maybe as Don suggests, just a connector error. Could be they got the re-shimming wrong/mixed up & somehow left a way too tight inlet valve clearance - some techs keep a meticulous record of any adjustments, so it might be worth asking.
 

PhilPhilippines

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Back to the dealer, as soon as possible.

Should be something simple, if that's all they touched - Sounds like she is spitting back into the intake/airbox. Maybe as Don suggests, just a connector error. Could be they got the re-shimming wrong/mixed up & somehow left a way too tight inlet valve clearance - some techs keep a meticulous record of any adjustments, so it might be worth asking.
I am sure you let them know it was fine before they "fixed" it. Drop into the convo that it is documented and Tenere forums are waiting for the outcome, so as to not get a "repair" bill
 

Jsbedard1977

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I am sure you let them know it was fine before they "fixed" it. Drop into the convo that it is documented and Tenere forums are waiting for the outcome, so as to not get a "repair" bill
Yes I explained them all of this, also I paid for extended wanranty when I bought the bike used at a dealer in Montreal, 3 months ago. Hope this kind of repair would be covered if they try to charge me for this...
 

Jsbedard1977

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I finally returned to the dealer here in Lévis, Québec. They checked it and cleaned the throttle body and injectors. They also said at low RPM there was only 1 cylinder working because coil cable was reversed.

Afterwards when I came back with the motorcycle everything was fine. The day after when I started it, was disappointed to realize rpm still gets lot of variations on idle. At least the repetitive knocks were fixed. On idle now RPM is going between 1000 to 1250 then goes down 900 and up again and so on... I called them back to explain the situation and they said something like "the bike is fine, they checked everything, go ride with it and don't worry about these variations, they are normal"... I could understand on a Harley but Japanese/Yamaha, from my experience were always very regular rpm like heartbeat... Now I am scared that it could be vaccum leak or valve too tight or badly adjusted...not sure what you guys think about it. I'll try to call the director tomorrow to get refund and go at another dealer to get it corrected as the mechanic don't seem to be open to the idea to fix the bike again...
 
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StefanOnHisS10

Converting fuel into heat, noise and a bit motion
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Jean,

I believe that according to the owners manual the idle RPM is set at 1100, + and - 50. Since it is a two cilinder 270 degree engine the idle isn't flat lined. Although a TBS can do good things for the way she runs. Several members here (me too) have had a very small tear in the rubber plug cap on the right side vacuum connection on the TB. replacing this has cured my bad starts and poor running. If your bike was perfect before you brought it in, i would be all over them pushing them to fix it or for a refund. It sounds like they didn't do a good job and are trying too get rid of you...

Good luck,
Stefan.
 

Jsbedard1977

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Jean,

I believe that according to the owners manual the idle RPM is set at 1100, + and - 50. Since it is a two cilinder 270 degree engine the idle isn't flat lined. Although a TBS can do good things for the way she runs. Several members here (me too) have had a very small tear in the rubber plug cap on the right side vacuum connection on the TB. replacing this has cured my bad starts and poor running. If your bike was perfect before you brought it in, i would be all over them pushing them to fix it or for a refund. It sounds like they didn't do a good job and are trying too get rid of you...

Good luck,
Stefan.
Thanks for precisions. Could you tell me what TBS abd TB means? On my side bike is not hard to start and runs well when not on idle, and no visible performance decrease to me. It is just "unstable" or variable RPM with occcasionnal knock but very few compared to before.

What this video, it doe it even when hot (100C) on idle (watch until the end):
 

~TABASCO~

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How many valves were out of spec? Can you show us the provided valve clearances they should have given you ? My guess is wrong shim size. You can make this motor much soother with spot-on valve adjustment, or you can make it rough with the wrong size shims.
That’s probably my guess. (Needs a second qualified opinion on the valve check)
 

Jsbedard1977

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How many valves were out of spec? Can you show us the provided valve clearances they should have given you ? My guess is wrong shim size. You can make this motor much soother with spot-on valve adjustment, or you can make it rough with the wrong size shims.
That’s probably my guess. (Needs a second qualified opinion on the valve check)
Unfortunately they only wrote on the invoice that valves were loose, no specs written about adjustment details...very professional as you can see...
 

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Unfortunately they only wrote on the invoice that valves were loose, no specs written about adjustment details...very professional as you can see...

Im going back in time, I just wrote below before I had a minute to watch your video. SORRY, im doing five things at once...... Check your CCT *ASAP* After watching this I have not seen this before but I watched it several times. If this was at my shop I would pull the CCT out, take it apart, and inspect it FIRST.... After those RPM drops its sounds like you have CC slapping and chatter.... I would suggest not riding it until this is inspected. The stock CCT is actuated my oil / oil pressure. Obviously hot and cold oil are a bit different and might have an effect on a defective CCT. Im sure I have several stock units if you want to throw one in. If you want to kick this off your (what if) list, throw a manual CCT in there and mark that off your list.
*unlikely, dont know if this might even be possible but I wonder if the CCT piston has hung up on the CCT out side upper clip spring? For folks that have messed with the stock unit will know what Im talking about.

(These are only ideas and suggestions I can learn and see over the internet)



Really sorry to see that....... (My guess) Needs to be meticulously re checked & possible re adjusted. In my past experience I have seen back firing, rough idle, and other not-good stuff... all of these item were because of the valves being out (way out) and fixed by bringing them all back into exact spec.

Also for future reference. Demand how ever you like that you get all the numbers "for your records" of all the valve specs before they adjust them. Ive had other folks tell me they have asked for these numbers while calling beforehand in scheduling the bike maintenance, the dealer / shop refused to provide this info. They never made the appointment and went to another place. (makes me wonder if they even do the work)? Im also writing this for others to read and they can use the info themselves. I have found over ten years & this bike, that if the valve is on the edge of tight or loose and your already in there fixing other valves, go ahead and bring the (on the edge) valves back into a middle value. Don't leave them hanging on the edge of tight or loose. It makes a difference for sure. I recently checked the valves on my bike. I think I had 3-4 that were actually out of spec. The rest were all all over....... I ended up pulling all 8 and adjusting all 8, and now all are dead nuts (exactly) in the middle tolerance. The engine is super smooth after that job.
IMOP- all these modern engines do NOT tolerate "its close enough".. This is not a big Chevy from the 50-60's, I know that im OCD about engine stuff but your going to get out what you put in. And I have suggested and help guide folks for years about "interviewing" shops before going. I could probably write a book about stories Ive been apart of or have listen to over all these years. I totally understand there are many folks they only have one place within 20 hours of there home. And that one mechanic is garbage. For those folks it might be better to grab just a few tools and contact someone like myself. I will walk you though it so you know the job is done correctly. And save you time / money / frustration.
 
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WJBertrand

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That idle behavior does not look to be a problem. The momentary RPM dip seen at the end seems to be due to the additional load applied to the electrical system when the fan kicked on.
 

StefanOnHisS10

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Thanks for precisions. Could you tell me what TBS abd TB means? On my side bike is not hard to start and runs well when not on idle, and no visible performance decrease to me. It is just "unstable" or variable RPM with occcasionnal knock but very few compared to before.

What this video, it doe it even when hot (100C) on idle (watch until the end):
A TB is a Throttle Body and TBS is Throttle Body Synchronization. In this second video it does seem I am hearing the timing chain slightly like TABASCO mentions. He is the go to mechanic over here, follow his advice.
 
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